Jump to content




Photo

What to do with a D motor


  • Please log in to reply
41 replies to this topic

#1 havlicek

havlicek

    OCD Rewinder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,647 posts
  • Joined: 20-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NY

Posted 13 November 2016 - 10:52 AM

IMG_1806_zpsgbfwypnq.jpg
 
Lots of these things around, and they tend to get used and tossed. Instead of seeing them as a "disposable commodity" because of that seal on there, or as something never to be opened, I think it's a good thing to see them as raw material after they've served their purpose in sealed motor racing. With quality vintage parts *for either D or C-sized motors getting pricey and rare, the good old "modern D" can be seen as a modified Champion or Mabuchi. They already have strong magnets (no need to search out shims and aftermarket period magnets). The cans have already been cut up for clearance and weight, and you don't have to jump through a bunch of workaround hoops to hopefully not have the endbell melt into a puddle of acrid-smelling and smokey goop. I kinda like the oval hole Deathstar motors, but these ones work fine for all sorts of stuff. About the only thing you couldn't easily do with one of these (although it wouldn't be all that hard) would be to mount it endbell-drive, but who wants a serious performance motor to be endbell drive anyway ;)

So, I'm going to build one of these things up and not do much at all to the basic package. What would be the use afterwards? Well, it could just go into a modern fun-racer, but it could just as easily go into a vintage recreation build... one where every other detail is as vintage as possible except for a pricey and hard to source vintage motor. This would not be at all some sort of alternative to "Retro", just a way to have fun with vintage without making things more difficult than they need be.  

On the other hand, it could easily go into a modern Retro chassis for fun (although not sanctioned) running/racing. So, lots of people have parts and modern "junk" lying around. Save that stuff because it's "raw materials." I'll have one of my arms "in the chamber," but there are gobs of off the shelf arms that could go in there as well.  

 

Time to get building.
 
-john


  • Tex, tonyp, B.C. and 4 others like this
John Havlicek




#2 havlicek

havlicek

    OCD Rewinder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,647 posts
  • Joined: 20-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NY

Posted 13 November 2016 - 11:42 AM

So, after removing the seals (they're made to be very sticky but fragile) and a little preliminary cleaning you wind up with a standard three-pole DC slot car motor. The arm is a very long stack (measures over .600" long with the coating on there) with an unground diameter of around .518", having been balanced, and it seems OK on my static jig, but I'm sure it's not top shelf balancing... how could it be? While the motor uses large brushes, the comm is a small diameter, more like the diameter of the old Mabuchi comms.

The magnets measure nice and strong, but not particularly well-matched. They measure around 1,100 on one side and 1,050 on the other, but things could change a little with a zap. The hole is right at around .560", quite large for a .518" diameter arm, so these motors right there are more towards the rev end of things than the torque end, but the wind sort of heads the other way.

 

In short, it's a cool motor and I'm sure a basic package that works well for the price and intended application. The real deal here though, is that the basic package could easily be the starting point for some serious horsepower.  How much horsepower?... well... I'm going to find out!  :)

IMG_1807_zpsv7jbxstk.jpg

 

-john


  • Tex, B.C., Samiam and 3 others like this
John Havlicek

#3 Pablo

Pablo

    Builder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,915 posts
  • Joined: 20-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Johnson Bayou

Posted 13 November 2016 - 12:11 PM

Yup. Those are great setups. I saved all of mine from my AMSRA hand-out racing days.

Use 'em for all sorts of things. No doubt after being Havlicek'ed it will be a monster :dance3:

 

May I put forth the opinion from experience, those type motors like big airgaps.

I'd go with nothing bigger than a .518" OD arm and I'd leave the mags at about .550" or .560".

The stock brushes and springs work fine, too.


  • havlicek likes this
Paul Wolcott

#4 havlicek

havlicek

    OCD Rewinder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,647 posts
  • Joined: 20-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NY

Posted 13 November 2016 - 12:32 PM

Hi Pablo,

 

 The whole big air gap thing with "those motors" only applies to the stock arm. You put a different arm in there, and it's a whole different equation and a whole different "those motors"!

 

I also won't use a small diameter comm, and that will also make a noticeable difference. It's basically just a more open version of an old D motor, so really, what the "old guys" did with them is more applicable and more likely to not vaporize! There's no reason why a hot wind on a .560" diameter arm... maybe ground down some, wouldn't make for a great motor. Not that I'm necessraily going to go that way.  ;)

 

-john


  • B.C. and olescratch like this
John Havlicek

#5 havlicek

havlicek

    OCD Rewinder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,647 posts
  • Joined: 20-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NY

Posted 13 November 2016 - 01:22 PM

Oh and I forgot to add, that I have epoxied the magnets in using an unground .560" diameter arm with a few wraps of tape on it as a slug. I was able to get the arm to actually spin mostly free doing that after just cleaning up the inside of the can. If I did use a big diameter arm, I don't think it would be any problem at all having it ground to .550", certainly not .500".  

 

Here, I think I'm going to go "the other way" by starting with a more common .518" arm and just cleaning up the stack when it's balanced.  That means the magnets will have to come in a bit, but the arm would be more like what's easily-available out there.

 

Anyway, there's definitely enough magnet in these things to go with a pretty stout wind. I could install a set of the EPX magnets, but I don't think there's all that much difference between these and those (I'd have to check again). I think the EPX ones have slightly thinner tips... maybe.

 

-john


John Havlicek

#6 NY Nick

NY Nick

    Race Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 759 posts
  • Joined: 14-December 07

Posted 13 November 2016 - 03:29 PM

Hone them out to .575-580" and use .560" 16D arm.

 

Work really nice.


  • havlicek likes this
Nick Cerulli

#7 havlicek

havlicek

    OCD Rewinder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,647 posts
  • Joined: 20-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NY

Posted 13 November 2016 - 04:27 PM

Yep, Nick... but I have different plans.  :)

 

-john


John Havlicek

#8 Pablo

Pablo

    Builder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,915 posts
  • Joined: 20-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Johnson Bayou

Posted 13 November 2016 - 04:39 PM

For sure we all know by now John not only builds great motors, he has a special talent for making things that usually don't work, work very well.

Example, he makes some real potent powerplants using the old style small brushes.

 

My idea of big airgap was simply a prediction and he will probably prove me wrong.

Whatever he does and however he does it, just sit back and enjoy the ride. I know I am. :sun_bespectacled:


  • havlicek and olescratch like this
Paul Wolcott

#9 havlicek

havlicek

    OCD Rewinder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,647 posts
  • Joined: 20-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NY

Posted 13 November 2016 - 04:40 PM

... speaking of different plans. I got the setup all cleaned up. I removed all the solder from the can and endbell hardware, hit the can with Scotchbrite and then some Dialux Green with a felt disc to give it that new motor shine. I also cut off the built-in magnet clips because they'll just get in the way.  

 

Then I whipped-up a pair of shims for the magnets (after I cleaned all the goo off them). Even though the magnets have flats on their back sides so the seams and welds inside the can don't mess things up, I also ground the insides of the can just to be sure. In any case, it'll give the epoxy more grab. Test-fitting shows that I can easily slide in the magnets and shims with a .535" aluminum magnet slug/alignment thingamabob. With the much tighter hole, a .518" diameter arm can just be ground enough to even things up and work well.  

 

I'll also probably substitute allen head screws for the endbell hardware philips-head screws. More positive grab, less likely to strip, and everyone already has the "standard" (what is it... 050" or something) allen wrench anyway.

The bushings on both ends were nice and tight. Either the motor hardly got raced, or whoever it was knows how to set a gear mesh!   :)  Anyhow, in keeping with the easy-to-build and low-dollar theme here, the bushings stay. An intrepid builder could certainly choose bearings, but there's no need here! I pressed a nice sort of long stack (.500") out of RJR lams with a wider crown.  From here on out, it's a lot like building a new motor.  :)

IMG_1808_zps5iqrjkap.jpg

 

-john


  • B.C. likes this
John Havlicek

#10 havlicek

havlicek

    OCD Rewinder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,647 posts
  • Joined: 20-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NY

Posted 13 November 2016 - 04:44 PM

Pablo,

 

 I've heard the big airgap thing from many racers like you, and I believe it, but that applies to the stock motors. Building this motor from scratch with a different arm is the same as any other, like a plain-jane C motor. Same technology, same physics... just not quite as small/tidy of a package.  :D

 

-john


John Havlicek

#11 Pablo

Pablo

    Builder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,915 posts
  • Joined: 20-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Johnson Bayou

Posted 13 November 2016 - 05:10 PM

I hear you, but the experience I speak of wasn't from the stock arm - it was from putting custom-wound modern arms with big comms in it.

My finding was, the smaller OD arms still worked better in them. Danny Zona and I talked about it a lot.

 

It matters not, your black magic may work differently than mine.  :)  Don't let my comment slow you down.

 

I really like those motors - many a time I took my hand-out Speed FX 16D back to a raceway bathroom in a Dixie cup and broke it in underwater. Nowadays I still use all the parts from them.

 

May I have first chance rights to buy it when it's done? I have a body that may be a good candidate:

 

IMG_3725.JPG


  • Danny Zona and C. J. Bupgoo like this
Paul Wolcott

#12 havlicek

havlicek

    OCD Rewinder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,647 posts
  • Joined: 20-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NY

Posted 13 November 2016 - 06:33 PM

Hi Pablo,

 

Well, there's a lot more to a motor than the airgap and the comm diameter.  :)  I know you understand all this and have done your fair share of building and winding, so that's just for the "onlookers."  ;)

 

BTW, there are C motor arms that will drop right into these setups when you adjust the airgap. The arm doesn't care what the outside of the motor looks like, only what the field is in terms of shape and strength. I purposely used the wide crown lams here, but also set an airgap meant for what I have planned. The same arm would be equally happy in a C motor!  

 

On the finished motor, I think it will be a bit much for a stocker. I'm fairly confident it would be more at home in a late 1960s type anglewinder and a nifty GP type body. Then again, if the stocker was a chopped and channeled Corvette, and had a diaplane and spoiler... :)

-john


  • B.C. and olescratch like this
John Havlicek

#13 Pablo

Pablo

    Builder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,915 posts
  • Joined: 20-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Johnson Bayou

Posted 13 November 2016 - 07:36 PM

:)   :popcorm1:


Paul Wolcott

#14 boxerdog

boxerdog

    Race Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 583 posts
  • Joined: 10-November 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Modesto, CA

Posted 13 November 2016 - 08:48 PM

I thought that looked familiar!! Let me know when you need some more. Some of them didn't get raced as much as others especially if they didn't show a lot of promise.

 

I am interested in your results, too. My experience with the "unsealed" versions was also that the bigger air gaps were faster sometimes, but not always. Seemed to be related to timing, at least with American 16D arms, although it was always a trade-off and something of a crap shoot.

 

So this is a great opportunity to learn something. 


David Cummerow

#15 havlicek

havlicek

    OCD Rewinder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,647 posts
  • Joined: 20-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NY

Posted 14 November 2016 - 06:51 AM

Hi Dave,

 

Cool that it was one of yours, you take care of your motors! :)  I don't know how much of what I'll be doing to this motor would be applicable, because I'm basically just making it into a slightly larger C motor... sort of like sticking a C motor into a D motor.

 

 On these more open cans, gauss is somewhat down compared to the older Mabuchi, Champion, Hong Kong Mabuchi (oval hole), and even "Deathstar" motors. If you stick this same pair of magnets in one of those cans, they measure maybe close to 10% stronger. So I figure that a bigger hole frees the arm up even more, but racers no doubt take all that into account with gearing.  

 

Here, I'm trying to use as much of the available field as I can and am doing a wind that would be fast in a C motor. They (can motors) are all pretty much the same until you get into strap-type motors.

 

-john


John Havlicek

#16 havlicek

havlicek

    OCD Rewinder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,647 posts
  • Joined: 20-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NY

Posted 14 November 2016 - 07:29 AM

Thinking more about this, Dave, if you were thinking more about just making a fast D-sized motor of any kind when you said "unsealed," it might be the case that a regular old Russkit 22/23 type can with a modern endbell would make for the best combination. The old can would probably make for a stronger field, and the thinner can material also means the motor wouldn't be too heavy at all... even with shims and whatnot.  

 

On this particular project though, I wanted to specifically avoid using parts that were harder to find, and these type motors are super affordable and easy-to-get. Alternately, it might be a good thing to actually add metal across the top and bottom flats on this can, maybe braze-in some steel, but that would add extra work and this project is supposed to be easy in my mind. A larger version of this design would be a target, but again, that would be a whole 'nuther thing.

PS%20Mini_zpsojmwlwjd.jpg

 

-john


John Havlicek

#17 havlicek

havlicek

    OCD Rewinder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,647 posts
  • Joined: 20-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NY

Posted 14 November 2016 - 07:52 AM

Back onto the project, this is what I have so far.  

 

The shims and magnets have been installed, and I cleaned the epoxy off my fingertips and the outside of the can. Epoxying the shims and magnets in one shot is kind of a messy deal, for me anyway. So I have a .532" or so "hole" in this decidedly "unsealed" can.

 

I also cleaned up, straightened/aligned the endbell hardware and substituted the little button head screws for the stock phillips head ones.  In this case, they're longer ones I got from Bill Bugenis a while back. They bite hard and the longer thread makes for an even more positive connection. I like 'em!

IMG_1809_zpsrhymkt7s.jpg

For the arm, I'm going with a 26t/26 on the .500" long by .518" diameter wider crown stack I built for this motor. I kept the timing at my usual approximately +12 degrees advance CCW (normally all my stuff is between 10 and 15 degrees). I think the longer stack here is appropriate for the can and magnets. Resistance numbers will be slightly higher, but that's not at all necessarily a bad thing.  

 

It should make for a pretty stout D motor, but the overall setup is pretty much still just a slightly modded Pro Slot D motor.

IMG_1810_zpsae7gpl0q.jpg

-john


  • Tex, C. J. Bupgoo and Geary Carrier like this
John Havlicek

#18 boxerdog

boxerdog

    Race Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 583 posts
  • Joined: 10-November 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Modesto, CA

Posted 14 November 2016 - 10:14 AM

Looks great, John. I am guessing that the big air gap thing is/was applicable mainly to standard 16D winds, in that it was easy to "over-magnet" that particular wind. I think that as the winds get hotter, the air gap may want to be tighter, and the timing somewhat lower.

But we never really ran anything hotter than maybe a Super 16D in those cans, so you are headed off in an interesting direction, for sure. 26t26!!!??? Hang on!
David Cummerow

#19 Bill from NH

Bill from NH

    Age scrubs away speed!

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,012 posts
  • Joined: 02-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Boston, NH

Posted 14 November 2016 - 12:32 PM

Parma started the big 16D airgap thing with the Deathstar. Those motors were the first 16D motors to have S16D magnets in them. None of their pink endbell motors have them. Parma using S16D magnets in all their D-can motors was probably an economic decision.


Bill Fernald

i don't need to use GOOGLE, my wife knows everything. :laugh2: 


#20 havlicek

havlicek

    OCD Rewinder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,647 posts
  • Joined: 20-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NY

Posted 14 November 2016 - 04:37 PM

Well, like I said, they're all just three-pole DC can motors. The physics doesn't change because of what the motor looks like on the outside!

 Anyway, the whole deal here is that these motors (as a general type) are cheap and ubiquitous. It may "offend" some of the purist vintage types, but I see them as a way to enjoy the old chassis designs with scratchbuilding and not break the bank with uber-expensive vintage motors.
 
-john
  • olescratch likes this
John Havlicek

#21 SlotStox#53

SlotStox#53

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,730 posts
  • Joined: 13-March 13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:TX

Posted 14 November 2016 - 05:35 PM

Heck, the Parma 16D can be considered vintage now. :laugh2: All those modern 16D are perfect for vintage mills in vintage cars. Old skool for not a lot. :)
  • havlicek and olescratch like this

#22 havlicek

havlicek

    OCD Rewinder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,647 posts
  • Joined: 20-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NY

Posted 14 November 2016 - 08:34 PM

... and... BAM!

IMG_1811_zpsoyeqipr9.jpg
 
26t/26 on a .500" x .518" stack = .094 ohms. A bit of grinding and balancing, and a little assembly, and she'll be ready to rock!
 
-john
  • slotbaker, B.C., Samiam and 4 others like this
John Havlicek

#23 Samiam

Samiam

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,630 posts
  • Joined: 18-January 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Long Island, NY

Posted 14 November 2016 - 09:26 PM

Talk about a SUPER 16D!
 
Nice work as usual.
  • havlicek likes this
Sam Levitch
 
When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything is a nail.
Support your local raceway, or you won't have one.
Slot cars are quad-pods.
Support your "Local Racer."
:laugh2:

#24 boxerdog

boxerdog

    Race Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 583 posts
  • Joined: 10-November 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Modesto, CA

Posted 14 November 2016 - 09:46 PM

No kidding! Should be exciting...
  • havlicek likes this
David Cummerow

#25 Steve Okeefe

Steve Okeefe

    We're all mad here

  • Administrator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 954 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Greencastle, PA

Posted 14 November 2016 - 09:46 PM

In keeping with the original trajectory of this topic, fifty years ago (in 1966) we would take stock Mabuchi 16D motors and rebuild them into "firebreathing monsters." We used what was available to us, cheap and plentiful stock and a few aftermarket parts plus our imagination, cleverness, and inventive nature. It was great fun to see our creations go like stink, which they regularly did when the white Mabuchi endbell inevitably melted.

 

Today, John is suggesting we take stock 16D motors and rebuild them into "firebreathing monsters" using what is available to us, including cheap and plentiful stock and aftermarket parts plus our imagination, cleverness and inventive nature. And I hear him suggesting we have some actual fun doing it. Imagine that.

 

There's a symmetry there, don't you think?


  • havlicek, wbugenis, boxerdog and 3 others like this

#26 Danny Zona

Danny Zona

    Race Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 930 posts
  • Joined: 27-July 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Holly Hill (DaytonaBch), FL

Posted 14 November 2016 - 11:44 PM

It's very cool to see this build.

The arm is a dime piece. So pretty.
  • havlicek and wbugenis like this
KellyRacing
R-GEO

I've been racing in the FL flexi series since 1999 when I started back racing. Just imagine the rules changes I've seen!

#27 havlicek

havlicek

    OCD Rewinder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,647 posts
  • Joined: 20-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NY

Posted 15 November 2016 - 05:57 AM

In keeping with the original trajectory of this topic, fifty years ago (in 1966) we would take stock Mabuchi 16D motors and rebuild them into "firebreathing monsters." We used what was available to us, cheap and plentiful stock and a few aftermarket parts plus our imagination, cleverness, and inventive nature.  It was great fun to see our creations go like stink, which they regularly did when the white Mabuchi endbell inevitably melted.

 

Today, John is suggesting we take stock 16D motors and rebuild them into "firebreathing monsters" using what is available to us, including cheap and plentiful stock and aftermarket parts plus our imagination, cleverness and inventive nature. And I hear him suggesting we have some actual fun doing it.  Imagine that.

 

There's a symmetry there, don't you think?

 

Steve, we are so "on the same page" it's frightening.  :D The new twist here is that nobody in their right mind simply tossed motors as clean as the ones that get tossed nowadays. With so many folks doing scratchbuilding because of Retro racing, as well as those who do vintage recreations, there's a lot of "vintage-style" potential for gobs of fun. Building, winding, painting and slamming the bank are all grin-inducing pastimes. Why not have fun!?   ;)

 

Besides, even if things start smoking, it's not like we spent all our paper route money, we can just make more!

 

-john


  • wbugenis, boxerdog, Samiam and 2 others like this
John Havlicek

#28 havlicek

havlicek

    OCD Rewinder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,647 posts
  • Joined: 20-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NY

Posted 15 November 2016 - 06:57 AM

Oh and I forgot to mention *again* that there are off-the-shelf arms that I am sure could be tweaked (or the setup could be tweaked, or both) to work with the setup.  

 

Even more... with affordable motors so available, people could tear 'em open and even try winding. No sanctioned racing is involved, no big money invested. People who do slots can agree on at least one thing... tinkering is fun!

 

-john


  • wbugenis and olescratch like this
John Havlicek

#29 boxerdog

boxerdog

    Race Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 583 posts
  • Joined: 10-November 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Modesto, CA

Posted 15 November 2016 - 09:51 AM

John,

 

You are absolutely right. For a lot of us it is less about the racing and more about the building/tinkering. In some cases, racing and rules just get in the way of creativity. 


  • havlicek, olescratch, C. J. Bupgoo and 1 other like this
David Cummerow

#30 Steve Okeefe

Steve Okeefe

    We're all mad here

  • Administrator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 954 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Greencastle, PA

Posted 15 November 2016 - 02:44 PM

Boxerdog,

 

Bravo...  :clapping: and thank you!

 

I don't want to get off-topic but I have to say that I could not agree with you more about (slot) racing, rules, and creativity!


  • havlicek and boxerdog like this

#31 havlicek

havlicek

    OCD Rewinder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,647 posts
  • Joined: 20-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NY

Posted 15 November 2016 - 04:05 PM

John, you are absolutely right. For a lot of us it is less about the racing and more about the building/tinkering. In some cases, racing and rules just get in the way of creativity. 

 

... and bingo! I was never much of a racer, or even a good driver, so I do appreciate the "skillz" involved with all that, but all the beautiful vintage type recreations here don't have all that much to do with that. Sure, Tony P is still creating gorgeous chassis for racing, just like in the old days, but there are folks who just want to build/create, and the vintage motors get "stoopid-expensive."  Brass rod and tube, piano wire are "cheap-as-chips," why not choose a motor that is a very close analogue for the old D and C motors, and just let 'er rip!?  

 

Besides, everyone knows all the best chassis designs were all done by the early 1970s anyway!  :D (ducking). After the  "Starship," the "Diamond fronts" and other developements, the record just started skipping. OK, well, I am fond of the very light perimeter tripod piano wire stuff that relied on the body's aero with a G20 C motor loaded up, but I don't want to tick off the too many people in one shot here.   ;)  

 

Anyway, I'm glad that people "get" what I'm after here. BTW, I blame Steve Okeefe for bringing all this up again...i t's all his fault! Danged troublemaker!

 

-john


  • boxerdog likes this
John Havlicek

#32 James Wendel

James Wendel

    Race Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 756 posts
  • Joined: 02-June 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Roseburg, OR, USA

Posted 15 November 2016 - 05:43 PM

I read the entire thread with great interest. I saw mention of the intent to use a larger diameter comm, but nothing about what was used or how it was sourced. 

 

"Inquiring minds want to know."  :D


You can't always get what you want...

#33 havlicek

havlicek

    OCD Rewinder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,647 posts
  • Joined: 20-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NY

Posted 15 November 2016 - 08:41 PM

Hi James...

 

Bill Bugenis has the comms.

 

-john


John Havlicek

#34 Steve Okeefe

Steve Okeefe

    We're all mad here

  • Administrator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 954 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Greencastle, PA

Posted 16 November 2016 - 08:37 AM

:curtsey:   :laugh2:


  • havlicek likes this

#35 SlotStox#53

SlotStox#53

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,730 posts
  • Joined: 13-March 13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:TX

Posted 16 November 2016 - 12:28 PM

This is so obvious, cheap and easy with all the parts available, time for a modern Dyna Rewind.  :D

Great philosophy, John and Steve! Been staring the slot community in the face the whole time.  :laugh2:


  • havlicek likes this

#36 olescratch

olescratch

    olescratch

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 389 posts
  • Joined: 19-July 13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ravenna, OH

Posted 16 November 2016 - 02:00 PM

In true "scratch" form, you take something that others would discard, clean it up, refurbish/replace broken stuff, repaint, run hard as heck because it didn't cost you a bunch of bucks to produce!  This is following the "trend" towards the FK conversion builds. Once seen as only toss aways in the past, using the can as a base, can allow for some creative power plants being built. Old becomes new, and add a "twist" to building some interesting "thingies." Not all of us want to be involved in obeying the rules, for whatever reasons!   


  • havlicek, Samiam and C. J. Bupgoo like this
John Stewart

#37 havlicek

havlicek

    OCD Rewinder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,647 posts
  • Joined: 20-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NY

Posted 16 November 2016 - 04:49 PM

... aw crud, it just occurred to me that these motors could someday become "collectibles" and then we're out of luck all over again. Then again, there's always plenty of el-cheapo C motors around ;), and a heckuva lot cheaper than minty-fresh Mura Green Can motors!

-john


  • olescratch likes this
John Havlicek

#38 swodem

swodem

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 444 posts
  • Joined: 29-October 14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Auckland, NZ

Posted 24 November 2016 - 11:56 AM

Well.....how did it go?



#39 Steve Okeefe

Steve Okeefe

    We're all mad here

  • Administrator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 954 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Greencastle, PA

Posted 24 November 2016 - 12:55 PM

Swodem,

 

We're working on it...   Just takes a little time.

 

John tells me the arms are out being ground and balanced.  They'll find their way back soon, and progress will resume.

 

I'm building a chassis for one of John's motors this week, but we're all eating some turkey and mashed potatoes right now.

 

Soon...



#40 swodem

swodem

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 444 posts
  • Joined: 29-October 14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Auckland, NZ

Posted 24 November 2016 - 01:00 PM

Ahhhh, happy Thanksgiving to you. Good to hear. Roasted potatoes are better ;-)
Enjoy


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

#41 Mark Johnson

Mark Johnson

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 426 posts
  • Joined: 27-March 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Minneapolis

Posted 25 November 2016 - 01:17 AM

Nice mil John .D can mags have a larger inside radius that fits the larger arms better .



#42 Bill from NH

Bill from NH

    Age scrubs away speed!

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,012 posts
  • Joined: 02-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Boston, NH

Posted 25 November 2016 - 08:25 AM

C-can "Big Arms" were in the neighborhood of .540 dia.. To use them, one needed to hone out the magnets for a .550-.555 hole.  D-can holes are .580 & larger. That's why the .560 D-can "Big  Arms" fit with less work. .560 dia arms were never intended to be used in a C-can.


Bill Fernald

i don't need to use GOOGLE, my wife knows everything. :laugh2: 






Electric Dreams Online Shop