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Help with Gp 12 wing car tuning for a 220' Engleman


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#1 gatormark

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Posted 17 November 2016 - 06:51 PM

I am running on a 220 ft Engleman with stock Group 12  Pro Slot motors and a few different chassis, i.e. Koford laser cut and tripod wire chassis. Am able to run decent laps with my lazer chassis ie 3.5 to 3.9 but can't seem to get a handle on the wire tripod chassis.

 

Getting the tripods to stick thru the corners has been a bear. Running ratios of 11/37 and 10/38, even tried 12/36. Fast on the straights but can't get thru the corners fast.

 

Yes, I'm new at this. Any help would be appreciated.


Mark Conner




#2 slotcarone

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Posted 17 November 2016 - 07:58 PM

You need to ask some of the regular racers at that raceway for help. Being there they can see exactly what your cars are doing. :)


Mike Katz

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#3 old & gray

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Posted 17 November 2016 - 09:31 PM

I always had trouble with wire tripod chassis. They were fast on the center lanes but touchy in the gutters. My suggestion would be to put the chassis on a jig, make sure it is straight, and re-solder all the joints to relieve any residual stress.

 

If you feel the Group 12 car is twitchy in the corners try changing the gearing to 9/38. I found this would make the car stable and faster.

 

I second Mike’s suggestion: “ask some of the regular racers at that raceway for help.” They will have the best handle on what is working.


Bob Schlain

#4 Pablo

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Posted 17 November 2016 - 10:25 PM

My advice is, gearing advice is absolutely useless unless one knows the OD of the wheels you are using.

 

I've been preaching this for years and I'm convinced nobody is listening.  :laugh2:


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Paul Wolcott

#5 NY Nick

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Posted 17 November 2016 - 11:20 PM

Narrow your tires.


Nick Cerulli

#6 Trevor Rosenberg

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Posted 17 November 2016 - 11:22 PM

Those gear ratios are very very aggressive. Try going 9/39 64 pitch or 10/44 72 pitch. As for the car handling you are going to be really body dependent. A wing car is about 70% body setup, 20% tires and 10% is the chassis.

If you want the car to handle like a dream but give up a little in the straights wing up a Koford Peugot, if you are comfortable dialing in the tires then go with a O/S Viper.

A Koford Peugot cut to 142mm long and 30mm tall with a 5 thou x 5 thou wing kit or a O/S Viper cut to the same dimensions.

Below are some pictures of some of my bodies you can use as a reference

IMG_0280.JPG

 

IMG_0282.JPG

 

IMG_0283.JPG

 

IMG_0284.JPG


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#7 gatormark

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 06:34 AM

My fastest car has a Viper body with that center rib, hmm...


Mark Conner

#8 gatormark

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 06:37 AM

Trevor,

 

We actually went with a less aggressive ratio and it helped. More experiments to come.

 

Thanks.


Mark Conner

#9 Trevor Rosenberg

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 11:33 AM

Mark,

For tires try Alpha Medium Wonder Rubber's true them down to .770" and before your first run with them take some Koford heavy onto a tech block and run the tires through it. Then when on the track for the first 10-15 laps slowly build up the speed to break the tires in.

 

With the Wonder rubber it is very important to true them round and put a nice round edge on them. Being a firmer rubber if not they will chatter and get really loose. Once broke-in and ready to race they will make the car a dream to drive, you will also gain back some of the straightaway speed you lost mellowing out the gear ratio.

Cheers,

Trevor


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#10 gatormark

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Posted 19 November 2016 - 06:59 AM

Trevor,that # 12 body is a peugot?


Mark Conner

#11 Trevor Rosenberg

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Posted 19 November 2016 - 03:35 PM

That body is a Redfox Foxtail

#12 Overdrive

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Posted 19 November 2016 - 05:57 PM

Trevor,

 

I observed this marking on the wing.

 

Is that a scribe mark? tape? Lexan?

 

What is it used for?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Overdrive

 

TrevorWingQuestion1.jpg


Dave Ronsky

#13 Trevor Rosenberg

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 12:50 AM

Dave,

It can be scribed with a ball point pen on that marking, it is printed on for reference when aligning the wings. All the tape in the rear of the body is on the inside.

The wings are Redfox by Gugu, his wing kits in my opnion are the easiest to use and get a perfectly square body.

Trevor

#14 Car-2

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 09:34 AM

I had my body set up by PA but he scribed it. Worked well in my first race and I was running 2.5's on a King in G12 with the Koford Beuf Express chassis and a motor I built. Seemed like the scribing helped stiffen the wings.

 

You can control it some by cutting the body longer or shorter depending on the track. Sounds like you need a bit longer body for more grip but it will be slower.


Robert Uzzi

#15 gatormark

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 06:13 AM

Car 2 what bodies are you running if ya don't mind me asking.


Mark Conner

#16 smokie

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 11:31 PM

RED FOX FOXTAIL OR SHADOW

O/S VIPER

CAMEN SUPRO DIMPLE

 

ANY WING KIT WITH .004 SIDES AND .005 REAR SPOILER

 

ALL LISTED BODIES COME WITH OR WITHOUT RIBS....YOU'LL NEED TO TEST.

CUT REAR OF BODY TO 28mm. 

BEFORE YOU INSTALL WING KIT, ALIGN BODY SO REAR IS CENTERED OVER REAR AXLE AND HOLD IT IN PLACE WITH 2 BODY PINS.

TURN CAR OVER AND MEASURE FROM THE FRONT OF YOUR GUIDE FLAG 10mm ON THE BODY. THIS IS WHERE I CUT THE FRONT OF THE BODY OFF TO MOUNT THE DIAPLANE


Jeff Bigelow
"It's not about winning or losing the race,
it's about how good you look for the concours judge"

#17 Car-2

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Posted 24 November 2016 - 11:50 AM

Car 2 what bodies are you running if ya don't mind me asking.

 

 

I'm running a Supro.


Robert Uzzi

#18 Overdrive

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Posted 24 November 2016 - 08:16 PM

@Gatormark,

 

IMHO, If this is a American Raceway type/style track. Then it would *not* be similar to the Super Speedway/Punchbowl Blue King type tracks where Vipers, FoxTail's and Supro's rule.

 

If this is true then you *will* want a higher downforce body. As Trevor said, you will give a little down the chutes but be much much better in the gutter turns.

 

I'd start thinking in the direction of these listed in order of approximate level of downforce.

 

O/S Vette

RedFox Pantera

Koford Peugot

O/S Avenger

O/S Royale

 

Because you mentioned G12, I would recommend trying .005 thick bodies as you are not generating enough top speed as G27/G7 cars to be as concerned with body collapse issues.

 

I usually do lower weight 4x5 wing kits for G12 and then add stiffening tape/body armor as needed. My theory is it is easier to add stiffening than it is to try to take some excess weight away.

 

Your initial goal is to make the body under 8.5 grams race ready. With a little experience under 7.7 grams. When you get really good you can occasionally build them under 7 grams. I'm giving these weights to start you thinking about all of the individual components needed to get to race ready up to and including paint.

 

Or if you can afford it, Buy a premount from one of the pro's like Trevor, Brad, Beuf or P.A. Watson as a reference. Just make sure they know the track type, builder and banking specs and condition before you buy so they can assist you with choices. I have huge piles of failed experiments before I started to get competitive enough, to know positively, you would be well advised to learn a baseline from them instead.

 

Hope this helps

 

OverDrive


Dave Ronsky

#19 David Rees

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 12:57 AM

Give the Slick 7 express chassis a go . It was designed espesially for tracks like yours 
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http://www.slotcarci...og.php?item=287
​.
Also you should be using a 9 tooth pinion. The only thing that changes is the arm timing which depends on track voltage 







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