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Can someone identify these tires please?


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#1 Garry S

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Posted 17 November 2016 - 10:07 PM

I just had a new track delivered, and was playing around with some ebay finds.  I managed to turn some pretty decent times with this old Pittman DC706.

 

I'm actually not old enough to remember these cars well, I got into the sport in the early 36d days so these BZ tires are a mystery to me.  But they are very well suited to my no-glue policy, and I'd like to find more for my sidewinder thingies project.

 

Can anyone tell me what type/compound these tires are?

 

706a.jpg

706b.jpg


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#2 Mark Wampler

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 01:22 AM

Possibly rubber mounted from model airplane tire(s).  Except the lettering throws that idea off. That was a practice back in ancient history.  The coarse texture reminds me of airplane tire rubber.


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#3 Jairus

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 01:36 AM

Close, Mark.

The rubber compound used back in 1965 was by Grupman, similar to what model airplane wheels were made of. But when slot car guys discovered it, the manufactures threw $ into the discovery of the perfect compound so... what those are, are actually a mystery and most likely derived from the original compound.

But with the sidewall markings I am suggesting maybe K&B?

Like they used on the "Little Red Wagon"?
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#4 Garry S

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 03:59 AM

The tires are BZ, the markings are more clear on this side.  What I'm trying to determine is what this type of rubber was called at the time, because it works very well on my track.  It's not dried out like old sponge tires usually are, and it's not deteriorated at all.  

 

Is this perhaps the "German" compound I see referred to in magazines from the early '60s?

 

706c.jpg


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#5 Cheater

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 08:47 AM

Jairus,

I believe the correct name for the company that made the airplane tires that were repurposed for slot cars was Graupner.
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#6 Mattb

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 09:04 AM

Those BZ tires came on all of their first series of slot cars, Ferrari, Wagon, Banshee, etc. When they ran out they went to Riggen tires and the Riggen "Magoo" slicks, which are probably the same rubber. All those tires tend to still be soft after 40 years. The white letter tires are a premium to most collectors to restore those old BZ cars that had their original tires removed.
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#7 Steve Deiters

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 09:55 AM

Veco airplane tires were used also.


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#8 Jairus

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 11:05 AM

Thanks, Greg, I tried to look it up but Google kept correcting my spelling.

What is up with spell check everywhere these days?

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#9 Detroit Dave

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 11:14 AM

I recall bidding on this one! BZ wheels for my Banshee and a really cool Gar-Vic chassis with a Pittman 706 for power. How does it run?
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#10 Garry S

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 02:00 PM

I just lubed and adjusted, and it runs great! I was surprised how fast it is and how well those tires stick to my new track.  

I bought it because I'm fascinated by these old Pittman, Ram, etc., sidewinders. They're before my time (I grew up with Mabuchis) but they seem to be great fun. I like the idea of a USA-made high quality motor.
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#11 Dave Crevie

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 05:06 PM

I ran Pittman 703s and Ram 426/427s with the axle behind the arm. I used them in Dynamics chassis with the kick-up like your Gar-Vic. I rewound a couple of the Pittmans, and they were pretty competitive.

 

I recently restored that car with a Ford GT roadster body I had. Still runs good.



#12 Garry S

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Posted 19 November 2016 - 01:04 AM

H&R makes some "fish rubber" tires in ~1in diameter. I think I'll try those for my thingies.  


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#13 zipper

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Posted 19 November 2016 - 05:18 AM

I think something like those came with my AMT 1/32 Ford GT in mid '60s - I was pretty surprised and they really didn't work on our plastic track.


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#14 don.siegel

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Posted 19 November 2016 - 12:34 PM

Yep, there were a lot of different versions of the Graupner model airplane tires - I believe the ones sold by Veco are original Graupners from Germany, not sure about others. In any case, where there is still a skin, and tires have not been trimmed, and the high crown removed, that's a sign its the original airplane tires. 

 

Until the urethanes came along, and people found silicones, we mostly used various German sponge tires in our vintage classes. If still at all fresh they worked pretty well, even on a modern polyurethane painted track without glue, but we often had to clean them off with lighter fluid every 10 laps or so... All the Mila Miglia tires use this type of compound, and they often remain fresh - they seemed to be the best of the bunch, along with Rannallis. 

 

At the time, they were always run with traction tonics of course: anything from castor oil to STP! 

 

The disadvantage is that they'll dry out much faster than the urethanes, which don't seem to dry out at all, from what I've seen. 

 

You're right to get into the old sidewinder motors - they're well made and will run forever - I'm on about my third set of brushes for the first one I built up some 20 years ago! If you get new ones, however, be forewarned: they take a long time to run in and get up to speed, at least 2 hours! Worth rezapping them too, if you can find a zapper - but I haven't and mine still run okay. 

 

Rick (DC65X) has done a lot of nice threads on hopping up these motors. 

 

Don 



#15 TSR

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Posted 19 November 2016 - 01:05 PM

All the tires on the BZ cars were made by Riggen, from their very first "American Line" Ford GT models to their last, the elusive Chaparral 2E.

 

The compound of the early narrower tires (simply fitted over the wheels without adhesive) was always the same, while the later wider tires used on the open-wheel cars, some late versions of the "Little Red Wagon" and the Chaparral are softer sponge that was glued and trued on the wheels. 


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#16 Ramcatlarry

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Posted 19 November 2016 - 04:06 PM

Check current 'VECO' model airplane wheels at your local hobby shop. I imagine the rubber is still that porous.  Dave Brown tires are more square-ish and can fit may old rims as well.  I still have the set screw rims I machined to fit veco rubber in the early 1960's.


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