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My sexy new JK C43 GTP car - step by step


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#1 Pablo

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 02:09 PM

Chassis prep 101: I didn't really find any serious burrs on the edges so I just gently:

- ran a small fine file to all edges top and bottom, followed by 400 grit

- spun a round file in all the holes - bite bars, bushing uprights, and body mounts

- wet sanded flat parts of both tops and bottoms with 400 grit wet/dry

 

IMG_3820.JPG

 

Not sure if I'm going to use the stock bite bars yet, so I left them alone for now.

 

I sanded the motor brace also, just to ensure it's fairly flat and has fresh new metal for solder.

Yes, it's overkill, but I have lots of time...   :)


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#2 Bill from NH

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 02:28 PM

We wondered where you were hiding the past couple of days! :)


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#3 Pablo

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 03:15 PM

Not hiding, just prepping cars for The Dungeon in 2017 :)

 

First thing I did on the center section was check the tilt.

I need "some" - the rules I'm building for are no fronts, no min. front clearance, and .032" min. clearance rear.

Mine, out of the bag, was angled very slightly down. Tongue Tweaker fixed it easily - I held the wings tight on the block and they stayed flat.

Then I checked it on my flattest block - it was plenty flat enough, nothing to correct.

 

IMG_3826.JPG

 

Pan section needed some minor hand tweaking to get flat, no problemo.

 

IMG_3830.JPG

 

I found doing one half first with the other half off the block, then the other half, then all together, makes it simpler.

When I get to the point of questioning which is flatter - the chassis or the block - I know I'm done.  :dance3:


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#4 Zippity

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 03:35 PM

You are learning.  :)


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#5 Pablo

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 04:53 PM

Before I examine the stock bite bars, I was curious about something -

now that I have a flat two-part chassis, will straight pieces of (.039" front/.047" rear) wires pass through the holes freely?

 

IMG_3833.JPG

 

Yup. They went right through absolutely perfect.

While my test wires were in there, I noted the design of the pan movement limiters.

Fore and aft limits are perfectly equal, and left to right amounts are slightly more rear than front.

Very precise, obviously designed that way and the further I go, the more I like what I see.  :good:


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#6 JK Products

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 04:56 PM

  :popcorm1:


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#7 Cheater

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 05:04 PM

You are learning.  :)


He had a good teacher... LOL!
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Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#8 MSwiss

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 05:17 PM

Greg,

How many posts does Pablo have to make in this thread, for you to upgrade him to tome status?

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#9 JK Products

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 05:58 PM

See, I want him to stop for fear of giving away too many of our secrets!


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Tim Homola
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#10 Cheater

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 06:09 PM

How many posts does Pablo have to make in this thread, for you to upgrade him to tome status?


He's already got his own subforum.

When he's done this thread will almost certainly be moved to Tech How-Tos & Tutorials.


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Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#11 Pablo

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 06:21 PM

Jaroslav Recek obviously understands what makes a slot car handle.  :good:
 
Bill of NH suggested the forward bite bar could be assigned double-duty as a front axle - I checked it - he is right. Would take some clever technique, but it's totally doable. :D Just for those who are challenged with front wheel mandates...
 
Another tuning design feature I noted is the pan crossover (which makes the chassis a two-piece vs a three-piece) does not interact with the center section. In other words, you have the advantage of the pans being connected, without the disadvantage of friction with the center section when the body moves.
 
In a situation where you actually wanted that friction, you can add some Lexan strips under the crossover and get it.


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#12 Tim Neja

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 08:31 PM

Hmmmm – I didn't get a "motor brace" in my package?  


She's real fine, my 409!!!

#13 bluecars

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Posted 03 December 2016 - 08:12 AM

Thanks, Pablo, but I already did all that to mine. :mosking: 

 

(Dang it!, Now I have to take mine all apart again.) :dash2:


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#14 Pablo

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Posted 03 December 2016 - 05:46 PM

Bite bars - here is what I found. The bends and curves that form the attachment end(s) make it practically impossible to lay it on a block and expect it to be flat. I tried to make them so, and couldn't. By no means is this a problem, and I'm sure you can just use them as is and do fine.
 
I set about to see if I could improve on them. My first thought was, small pieces of square tubing soldered to the pans rear, and .050" keepers outside of simple straight pieces of wire, front. The rear would be a piece of cake since it's basically the same way the Cheetah chassis bite bars are managed. The front would require some work - .050" keepers would be too sloppy over .039" wire, so I'd have to drill out some .063" brass tube to .039" and shim them up to make the keepers fit nice.
 
IMG_3873.JPG
 
Wait a minute, hold the phone - about that time, I started to really understand the way the stock bite bar keeper bends work. They just need to be tweaked properly. All the small parts and tools got put away – all I need is a pair of pliers. My stock bite bars are done.   :dance3:
 
IMG_3867.JPG
 
Here is my method. The convoluted bends look complicated, but I finally realized they are very simple, and only perform one single basic function - keep the bite bar from falling out. They are well designed to do that, and I doubt it can be improved from that standpoint. The problem is, not only are they doing the basic job, they can also prevent the bite bar from being an "independent thinker." In other words, they are influencing the bite bar due to (unwanted) interaction with the chassis surfaces. So, I think all we need to do is ensure the bar is straight where it passes through the chassis holes, and prevent the curved/bent section from touching the chassis.
 
First, let the bent areas lay off the block while you ensure the main part is straight. Notice the light coming under mine – not good – easy to fix
 
IMG_3839.JPG
 
Now tweak the bent portion upward the way you want it oriented on your chassis. Just enough to ensure all of it ends up elevated off the chassis about 10 thou. Like this:
 
IMG_3862.JPG
 
Now the bite bars are laying exactly as they would without the keeper bends, and everything is still flat. Plus you still have the capability of rapid removal as designed.  :good:


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#15 Pablo

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Posted 03 December 2016 - 06:21 PM

Both tongue surfaces faced as usual with a Magnehone.

 

I'm not going to reinforce the tongue – JK says it's a stronger chassis, and my meaty fingers verify that. Whether due to the thickness, or different material, I don't know.

 

IMG_3879.JPG

 

Bunky, the gap between the pan finger and wing tip you called a flaw and fixed with a shim?  Well, I call it something else.   :dirol:


Paul Wolcott

#16 Bill from NH

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Posted 03 December 2016 - 07:47 PM

I'm not saying do this, but one option you have, depending upon how low you want to run the chassis front, is to put a dimple in the outer portion of the wings with a punch.

 

Another way of accomplishing the same thing might be to put a small piece of body armor on the under side of the wings, but dimples never fall off.


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#17 Pablo

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Posted 03 December 2016 - 08:05 PM

I checked the upright holes for accuracy and to see what size wheels will give me .032" clearance.

 

Looks like the JK C43 was designed for about .063" clearance using about .720" wheels. It's accurate enough so no drilling/filing/etc. is needed, and I'll probably race it with about .685" wheels.

 

Found a pair of VBX un-shielded ball bearings – after a lighter fluid bath they will be soldered in... tomorrow...  :)

 

IMG_3881.JPG


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#18 glueside

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 08:09 AM

Pablo gets it!!!
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#19 Koford fan

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 10:34 AM

I notice you have taped in middle on your bite bars. Any reason for it? Just test? How it looking without?

Great work so far.
Tom Blantern

#20 Pablo

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 10:38 AM

The bearing holes are precise enough, I didn't feel the need to jig it up before soldering home the BBs. Simply taped it down with axle center elevated .2975". This will make it (mathematically) clear .032" with .659" wheels or .062" with .720".
 
IMG_3885.JPG
 
IMG_3890.JPG
 
Slick 7 brace fits perfectly.
 
IMG_3889.JPG
Paul Wolcott

#21 Pablo

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 10:42 AM

I notice you have taped in middle on your bite bars. Any reason for it?

 
Good question, Tom, thanks. I simply wanted the bent end of the bar to sit high for the photo just to make my point clear about keeping it up off the chassis.
 
Without the tape, it doesn't sit so high. Doesn't have to – just enough so it isn't hindering the bar from doing whatever it wants.
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#22 JK Products

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 11:51 AM

The force is strong with this one.   :popcorm1:


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#23 bluecars

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 12:30 PM

I'm watching very close. Really like that upright brace. Never seen that one. Do you have a part number?


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#24 Pablo

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 12:58 PM

Unfortunately, no. I do know that the S7-390 is too short. The S7-532 will work nicely as well.


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#25 Pablo

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 04:07 PM

Centerline permanently marked at the rear.
 
IMG_3906.JPG
 
I've been using a different technique than the usual sales receipt to set gear mesh on JK chassis lately. I like to end up with a 10 thou spacer inboard of the spur, so I tack the motor in with a 20 thou to the hilt.
Then the 20 thou is removed and 10 thou goes in. So far it's worked perfect every time.
 
Gears on my car will be 72 pitch 15/40. Hawk 7 motor has been broken-in and wire connectors tinned. You can see my tack solder blob on the lower forward edge

IMG_3912.JPG
 
I took the time to find the left/right balance point of the motor (at the angle it ends up in of course).

Previous chassis versions didn't always have the motor sitting in the perfect spot, so I'd compensate for it.
The C43 does. Laying flush with the gear side right in its nest, it's in perfect balance left/right. :good:

Also, the space between the endbell side and chassis on the C11 was really tight - the C43 fixes that.
 
IMG_3904.JPG
 
Motor is in its happy place, now it's time to install some bracing...
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#26 Rob Voska

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 05:22 PM

:heart: your setup wheels!  Gunna make me some of those.


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#27 Frankie Schaffier

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 05:29 PM

You need to make two sets, Rob.
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#28 Pablo

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 05:38 PM

Rob, people have been wanting them for a long time. Probably need a lot more than two sets. I'm glad I snagged 'em when I had the chance.
 
I was planning to install a S7-389 motor brace up front but the bite bar won't allow it. The standard JK brace and gear side attachment point will be plenty strong enough.
 
IMG_3916.JPG
 
I'm done acid soldering so center section/motor, etc., got a warm soapy bath scrubbing.
 
IMG_3921.JPG
 
Soon you will see why I titled my thread with the word "sexy"... :)
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#29 Koford fan

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 05:50 PM

Nice work, Pablo. I like it.
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#30 Pablo

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 10:09 PM

Thanks, Tom. 
 
The rest of the assembly was easy, no problems, nothing special other than the usual "Wolcott Ranch" race car attention to detail:
 
- pan doesn't need nursing to attach it - drop it over the center section, insert bite bars with a click, done. Brilliant design.
 
- Parma flag blueprinted, all rotating surfaces faced, Koford aluminum drilled nut and two 10 thou bronze spacers for tuning (one top one below to start), Slick 7 wires, TQ clips, Prime braid, Koford axle.
 
- spur gear balance tested using the BBs on the car – screw was the heavy point – tried a few different screws until I found the one that made it happy. :)
 
IMG_3932.JPG
 
The wheels I'll be using are .680" OD Alpha Wonder rubber on carbon fiber hubs and are .800" wide. I used a single thin spacer between spur and BB, a couple thin spacers between spur and (left) wheel, and two 20 thou spacers on the right side. Look close and you can see my marks aligned.
 
IMG_3927.JPG
 
My opinion is, the C43 has raised the bar in many ways and it's probably the easiest flexi chassis to make race ready of any I've ever built.

I give it three thumbs up (that's the max Cheater Wells allows).  :good: :good: :good:
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#31 Pablo

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 11:47 PM

My "sexy" chassis is dressed with a skin from ralphthorneracing.com

 

IMG_3940.JPG

 

IMG_3949.JPG


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#32 Zippity

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 11:54 PM

Paul,
 
Are you going to install a SS or brass floating pin tube in the front?  :)

#33 Pablo

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 11:59 PM

2.5" JK clips modified for racing and sharpened at the tips. Body photos maybe tomorrow.


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#34 Bill from NH

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 12:13 AM

What happens to those chassis skins when you solder motors in and out of a chassis? Years ago we made chassis skins using 3M colored plastic tape, but we never skinned the motorbox.


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When chemists die, they barium.


#35 Zippity

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 12:18 AM

Clips - so yesteryear. :(

#36 Bill from NH

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 07:51 AM

Clips are lighter weight than pintubes and pins. One can remove a body and re-install it quicker when using clip than someone can remove and replace four pins. The Russkit RTR cars used clips.
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When chemists die, they barium.


#37 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 08:23 AM

Clips - so yesteryear :(

 

The Russkit RTR cars used clips.

 
Is there an echo in here? :)


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#38 Samiam

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 09:03 AM

Clips can be adjusted to give the body movement just like floating pin tubes. As this is not Pablo's first rodeo I think he's got the clips down pat.


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Support your "Local Racer."
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#39 Danny Zona

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 09:52 AM

I'm a fan of clips.
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#40 Bill from NH

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 11:16 AM

Clips look ugly, soooooooooooooooooo! :laugh2:


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#41 Pablo

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 11:38 AM

What happens to those chassis skins when you solder motors in and out of a chassis?

 
I don't know yet, but it won't be an issue for me – FK motors last forever at The Dungeon.
 
Clips can be painted ya know. Maybe I should do that today... :dance3:  Just to tease Zippity.  :sarcastic_hand:
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#42 Ralph Thorne

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 12:08 PM

What happens to those chassis skins when you solder motors in & out of a chassis? Years ago we made chassis skins using 3M colored plastic tape, but we never skinned the motorbox.

 
Shouldn't be an issue. They are made from a material designed to hold up to high temps. Personally I haven't had any problems yet.
 
The chassis skin and car look great as usual, Pablo.
 
Thanks for spending the time adding nice pictures and informative text.
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#43 John C Martin

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 02:28 PM

I can tell you the skins hold up on a chassis dragging on the chassis ears as well... very impressive product.


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#44 Bud Greene

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 02:42 PM

Let's see you paint a body to match LOL.


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#45 Pablo

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 06:43 PM

No can do, Bud - I'm a mechanic, not a painter. :D

But I did paint the JK clips to match the body, just because I know Zippity loves them.  :heart:
Rattle can metal primer followed by Testors "Star Spangled Banner Blue" lacquer.
 
IMG_3966.JPG
 
Body is a 7 thou O/S Bentlee. Paint job is just a quickie with same paint as the clips. Numbers are German font waterslides from Pattos.
 
IMG_3985.JPG
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Paul Wolcott

#46 Don Weaver

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 07:10 PM

Funny looking wheel openings. :laugh2:  :laugh2:

Don Weaver
The supply of government exceeds demand.
L.H. Lapham
 
If the brain-eating amoeba invades Washington
it will starve to death...

 

How do you spell "leverage"?

........R-A-N-S-O-M


#47 Pablo

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 07:44 PM

:laugh2:  Welcome to parking lot rattle can one race paint job country - takes one to know one. :victory:
Paul Wolcott

#48 Bill from NH

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 08:06 PM

Funny looking wheel openings.

 
Those openings are for his clip holes, or else he's planning to run scale moped wheels and tires.  :laugh2:  :laugh2:
 
That's way too much paint to qualify as a parking lot job. You just spray a cloud of paint in the air, then wave a clear body through the cloud twice. All Californians know how to do it. :) 

Bill Fernald

When chemists die, they barium.


#49 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 08:28 PM

Pablo Rocks!   :music:
 
Red will love the color - looks like I'll need to send Mr. Valentine some HP... LOL.
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Charlie McCullough

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Bartos Chassis

CHR Cars

Outisight Bodies

 


#50 bluecars

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 10:28 PM

I'll be waiting by the mailbox, Charlie. :hi:

Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 






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