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Ferrari 330 P4 comes back to life


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#1 Pablo

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 07:32 PM

Nice 45+ year old paint job/interior on a Dynamic body with original box and instruction sheet

 

IMG_4087.JPG

 

IMG_4077.JPG

 

First thing I did was secure the instruction sheet on a flat surface in an attempt to flatten the creases out

 

IMG_4071.JPG

 

Body has curling issues - I'll do is the best I can to get it up and running with a period endbell drive 16D motor and inline jaildoor chassis

 

IMG_4082.JPG


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#2 Bill from NH

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 07:46 PM

I use a stack of books or magazines to straighten out unflat sheets. A steam iron on a low setting would probably work, too.
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Bill Fernald

If a chicken coop has 4 doors, does that make it a sedan?


#3 Pablo

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 07:57 PM

Thanks Bill. I'll lay a big heavy book on top tonight.

Of the instruction sheet, that is :)

 

Curling solutions for old bodies welcomed also......


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#4 dc-65x

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 08:49 PM

That's a really cool body Pablo. Should be an interesting project. Thanks for sharing it!


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#5 Pablo

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Posted 15 December 2016 - 11:36 AM

Thanks, Rick :)  I scanned the instruction sheet - if anybody wants it let me know - it has some good info.

 

Motor will be a Havlicek built K & B Wildcat 16D with Tradeship endbell and stock gimbal can bushing

 

IMG_4172.JPG


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#6 Pablo

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 10:54 AM

Parts gathering for this build was kind of a "collect everything that may work" deal due to the body.

At this point the only sure things are:

Car Model 1968 rules - 3/4" OD fronts, 7/8" OD X 5/8" wide rears
WB 3 7/8"

GL 3/4"

Professor Motor Russkit replica wheels

EJ's #15 front tires

Orange donuts rear

Castleton motor bracket, with axle riding in tubing

7T Sonic steel pinion

Cox 33T crown gear

 

IMG_4177.JPG


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#7 gc4895

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 01:09 PM

This is a fun topic for me. My first slotcar back in the 60's-not a La Cuch or Cox Chaparral-was a Champion jaildoor chassis, Champion 16d motor with THIS Ferrari body - though painted by me with a rattle can. That was my "gateway drug". Next thing I knew I had an Ungar iron, Champion jig, borrowing my dad's Dremel tool and was buying piano wire and brass rod. Lots of late nights and chassis with way too much solder on them.


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#8 Pablo

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 08:13 PM

Not much has changed for me - still soldering late at night, but now I suck up excess solder with "Soder-Wick" :)

Nowadays I have things I didn't in 1966 - patience, lots of tools, access to parts, and helpful friends worldwide at the click of a few buttons.

 

Haven't found a Castleton bracket yet that was even close to being true like a Russkit. This one was no exception.

Bad bends, misaligned holes, arch above upper hole needs complete reshaping, etc. so it took a couple hours to get it right.

 

The (trued) bracket, when attached to the Wildcat and sitting face vertical at ground zero, will result in the motor being level and elevated just a hair.

Now all I have to do is jig the height for .062" clearance using .875 wheels, make the face sit square with bottom edge on the block, and tack the tubes.

No bushings or bearings - just tubing - and my centering methods will be done differently this time.

I just used a long piece and didn't centering anything perfectly - yet - gonna use my dc-65x gizmo for all four cuts :dance3:

 

IMG_4180.JPG


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#9 Bill from NH

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 09:17 PM

I have a question on the Castleton motor bracket from your photo. What are the horizontal holes used for? Absent on the Russkit bracket, are they for mounting the small Hemi can? What size is the motor bushing hole between the vertical mounting holes on the Castleton brackets? Is it 6 mm? I've not had any Castleton brackets, but I'm thinking they were made to fit more than just an endbell mounted Mabuchi.


Bill Fernald

If a chicken coop has 4 doors, does that make it a sedan?


#10 Pablo

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 09:48 PM

Horizontal holes are same spacing as horizontal holes on a REHCO. I don't know what they are for.

Big hole is same as Russkit - .250"/6.35mm

 

Tube secured and bracing done

 

IMG_4187.JPG

 

 


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#11 Bill from NH

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 11:44 PM

The horizontal holes on a REHCO bracket are to fit a Hemi can which has a 6 mm can bushing, So these Castleton brackets are either modified (Russkits) or manufactured to fit Hemi cans & Mabuchi 16D endbells.


Bill Fernald

If a chicken coop has 4 doors, does that make it a sedan?


#12 Pablo

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 11:01 AM

I'd say you are right on Castletons fitting a Hemi can.

They were probably NOT modified from Russkits due to the raised nub above the upper screw hole - it's wider and raised higher than the Russkit.

(note the poor alignment of the nub)

 

IMG_4196.JPG

 

Here's mine, a better view of my nub after modification

 

IMG_4204.JPG

 

Here's a stock one, Bill. Maybe they were designed for Hemi racing on right handed oval tracks ? :crazy:

 

IMG_4197.JPG


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#13 dc-65x

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 11:46 AM

IMHO the only good Castleton bracket is one Pablo or some other craftsman has spent hours working over! :D Otherwise they are junk.

 

Nice job Pablo.  :good: Great looking bracket and bracing.


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#14 SlotStox#53

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 12:01 PM

Looking forward to seeing how you straighten out the body on this one Pablo :)

With all the issues with the Castleton bracket you might as well use one of the REHco 16D ones.

HPower motor with a Pablo build, pure FUN :D

#15 Pablo

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 12:25 PM

I don't think there is any good solution to straightening the body. If it was unpainted that would be different.

It says in the instructions using too much paint will curl it, so I think straightening would be a disaster.

My plan is to simply make body mounts with lots of surface area that aren't sharp.

 

Did they have REHCO brackets in 1968 ?


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#16 SlotStox#53

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 01:16 PM

Sounds like a good plan for having wide area body mounts/sides to keep it flat.

As for the REHco brackets in 68, have no clue but they are vintage brackets aren't they? Maybe not 68 vintage but still in the "spirit" ?

#17 Bill from NH

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 01:28 PM

I doubt there is any good way of straightening out curled painted bodies either. At least I never found the way, if there was one. I didn't begin painting my own bodies until 1970, I don't know the type of paint(s) used by the likes of Lancer, Dubro, & Russkit, but not all factory painted bodies before that time curl. When you put the Castleton & Russkit brackets beside each other, it's real easy to see the Castleton isn't a modified Russkit bracket.On the Castleton is the nub offcenter or are the three vertical holes placed off center?  In the day, I never saw either the Castleton or REHCO mentioned or used. Everything used the Russkit. REHCO might have been around in 1966, I first became acquainted with them in 1967, but I have no idea when they began to carry the REHCO bracket. There was a period of time the pro racers used Hemi cans, my assumption is the Castleton & REHCO (Durbro?) brackets were both made then.


Bill Fernald

If a chicken coop has 4 doors, does that make it a sedan?


#18 Pablo

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 06:22 PM

I marked and cut the tubes, trued the ends with the gizmo, removed the flash, and polished with 2,000 grit.

Axles and front axle tube cut to length and polished. Insides of tubes polished also.

7T Sonic soldered on and wire connection tabs tinned

 

IMG_4210.JPG

 

IMG_4223.JPG


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#19 Pablo

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 06:32 PM

I need one pair (2) of these BWA Ferrari inserts, .500 OD for the rears. Can anybody help ?

I have lots of other inserts and parts to trade, or cash

 

IMG_4224.JPG


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#20 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 07:15 PM

Where did you get the Gizmo? I have a case trimmer for reloading but have yet to make it work that well.

 

The build looks great so far by the way.


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#21 Pablo

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 07:35 PM

Thanks Eddie. It came from McMaster-Carr.


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#22 gc4895

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Posted 18 December 2016 - 12:53 PM

Ok, I have spent the last hour pouring over the McMasters catalog. Alas, to no avail. Not being a machinist by trade I don't know what to properly call the afor mentioned "gizmo". Consequently out of the 550,000 items they carry I can't end up in the correct department. Can anyone help with correct terminology? I would really enjoy some square tube ends! Thank you!
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#23 Samiam

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Posted 18 December 2016 - 02:45 PM

It is some sort of end mill. Not sure if the bore is custom or just a run of the mill item.


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#24 dc-65x

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Posted 18 December 2016 - 03:52 PM

It's called a "tight-spot" reverse counterbore:

 

https://www.mcmaster...rbores/=15iy7tb

 

You might also like the "changable-pilot" counterbores

 

When possible I often spin the tube in a drill motor and dress the end with the side of a Dremel cut off wheel.
 


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#25 Pablo

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Posted 18 December 2016 - 03:53 PM

Mark, now you know why I call it a "gizmo".

Looked through my files and the receipt has been purged long ago.

Looked at my order history and it's not listed.

 

I see dc-65x has come to your rescue :)


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#26 Bill from NH

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Posted 18 December 2016 - 06:19 PM

Gizmo is dc-65x's generic name for a whole bunch of different tools. They're all related to a thing-a-ma-jig. :victory:


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Bill Fernald

If a chicken coop has 4 doors, does that make it a sedan?


#27 Pablo

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Posted 18 December 2016 - 06:53 PM

Some small details are done:

-orange donuts are glued and curing

-Gold Cup flag shaft has thin wall tube secured

-flag tube is cut to size, polished, and elevated above the block .088"

-Wildcat endbell holes tapped 2-56 (I just love saying it - Wildcat  :laugh2: )

-iso hinge wire holes drilled in bracket sides

 

Jigged up with first rails tacked. Forward crosspiece is just temporary to secure the rails for now

 

IMG_4225.JPG


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#28 old & gray

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Posted 18 December 2016 - 10:31 PM

IMHO the only good Castleton bracket is one Pablo or some other craftsman has spent hours working over! :D Otherwise they are junk.

 

 

Now I understand why  a kid with a Weller gun, a couple of files, and a hand drill had so many problems getting a chassis to handle in 1967.


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#29 Pablo

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 04:40 PM

I get your point, Bob, and agree only partially. The pros back then didn't have many special precision tools but managed to make them handle.

 

Time_machine_1.jpg

 

post-91-0-64907700-1455513529.jpg

 

The trick is knowing where poor tolerances will and won't hurt performance.

Example; I doubt having an inline motor cocked to one side a little would make any noticeable difference.

 

Mike Steube, in his retro building video, points out some of his best retro handlers had flaws, therefore didn't insist everything be exact.

Of course there are things that HAVE to be perfect - low CG, strong solder joints, amount and location of flex, etc.

Things like a downward tilted flag or parts binding are just a couple examples of instant handling killers.

I think that's what my old and gray buddy refers to.

 

I spend lots of time getting these things perfect because I have the time and I enjoy it.

By the time one of my cars gets tested, I pretty much know it's going to handle - the benefit of precision.

 

IMG_1964.JPG

 

Back in the day, the pros could build one in a matter of hours.

Even today with all my special tools, if you told me I had a night to build one, I couldn't.

It would take a lot more than a six pack of Pepsi and a pizza for sure :crazy:

pablo coke.jpg

 

Enough talk - where did I put those doggone .062 axle keepers ? :dash2: :D


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#30 Bill from NH

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 08:42 PM

The pros back then had the Russkit jig. :)  :)


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Bill Fernald

If a chicken coop has 4 doors, does that make it a sedan?


#31 Pablo

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 01:58 PM

I think that's enough main rails

 

IMG_4233.JPG


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#32 Pablo

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 08:08 PM

Added some weight to the front end. If it needs more I'll just slap a piece of lead or a Classic weight on top

 

IMG_4244.JPG


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#33 Pablo

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Posted 21 December 2016 - 03:09 PM

Originally I planned to round off the front corners but decided against it.

The "square" front end kind of grew on me, so it stays. Love it or hate it :)

 

IMG_4252.JPG

 

Sleeved Gold Cup flag with two Koford spacers ready. I'll start with one.

Attention to detail - I didn't just assume both spacers would fall free over the sleeve to sit flat on the flag deck - I checked it - normal procedure

 

IMG_4248.JPG


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#34 Pablo

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Posted 21 December 2016 - 06:13 PM

With the exception of flag stops, center section is done

 

IMG_4257.JPG

 

IMG_4269.JPG


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#35 Pablo

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 08:38 PM

2,000 grit sandpaper mikes about 6 thou. I used it to space the twin .063" wire Iso rails while tacking the hinge gizmo

 

IMG_4282.JPG


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#36 Pablo

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 09:28 PM

Hinge wires managed by .063" keepers butted up against bracket sides

 

IMG_4293.JPG


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#37 Pablo

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 11:13 PM

Using keepers to manage the Iso hinges worked pretty well, eliminating the need for a cross-connector to prevent spreading

 

IMG_4299.JPG

 

IMG_4296.JPG

 

 


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#38 Bill from NH

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Posted 23 December 2016 - 03:41 PM

Pablo. a clean looking chassis design so far! I want to watch how you attach pans or outriggers. (Hint) Pans could be made of brass rods too. :)


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Bill Fernald

If a chicken coop has 4 doors, does that make it a sedan?


#39 Pablo

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Posted 23 December 2016 - 05:18 PM

You mean like my Jupiter chassis ? :D

 

DSC04620.JPG

 

That's a good hint, Bill, my plan is definitely brass rod. Stay tuned.......


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#40 Bill from NH

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Posted 23 December 2016 - 09:45 PM

That one looks like it could have been built by a drunken sailor. :shout:  :shout:


Bill Fernald

If a chicken coop has 4 doors, does that make it a sedan?


#41 Pablo

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Posted 23 December 2016 - 10:19 PM

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, Bill :sun_bespectacled:

This Ferrari chassis needs to make the (curled) body skirts behave and I'll do the best I can.

I transitioned the Iso piano wire rails to brass rod with .047" spacers. From here on it will be all brass......

 

IMG_4317.JPG


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#42 havlicek

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Posted 24 December 2016 - 08:16 AM

Schweet!  Last time I saw that much brass, it was in High School band!  :D

 

-john


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#43 Pablo

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Posted 24 December 2016 - 09:03 AM

Should look nice with the yellow Wildcat, eh John ? :)


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#44 Pablo

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Posted 24 December 2016 - 03:55 PM

My method of dealing with the curled body skirts:

Upper and lower .063" outrigger type rod pieces with mounting tubes sandwiched between.

Upper rod is slightly inward of the lower rod and mounting tubes are slightly indented.

Nothing but rounded surfaces will touch the body

 

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Iso stop - it only takes a hair of movement to make the design work it's magic - I used a sliver of 400 grit sandpaper when I tacked the gizmo on

 

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Time to put a chassis in the tumbler and a ham in the oven for Christmas :dance3:

 

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Merry Christmas everyone :wave:

 


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Paul Wolcott

#45 dc-65x

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Posted 24 December 2016 - 05:01 PM

 

.........and a ham in the oven for Christmas :dance3:

 

Merry Christmas Pablo and you and your "little buddies" take it easy on that ham! :crazy:


Rick Thigpen
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#46 Samiam

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Posted 24 December 2016 - 06:12 PM

WOW!

 

That is one classic looking chassis. Love the " All rod...Nuthin' but rod " theme. Nice. :good: 

 

Merry Christmas


Sam Levitch
 
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#47 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 24 December 2016 - 08:05 PM

Merry Christmas Pablo.

 

Great looking sled.


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Eddie Fleming

#48 Bill from NH

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Posted 24 December 2016 - 08:52 PM

A+++


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#49 Pablo

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Posted 25 December 2016 - 10:07 AM

Thanks everybody :)

 

IMG_4349.JPG

 

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Paul Wolcott

#50 dc-65x

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Posted 25 December 2016 - 11:06 AM

Your building skills and that Mississippi water in your tumbler sure make for a pretty chassis!


Rick Thigpen
Check out Steve Okeefe's great web site at its new home here at Slotblog:
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