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A little deeper Into Strap-land


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#1 havlicek

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Posted 21 December 2016 - 04:56 PM

     So I was gifted some older strap stuff, and this motor was among the bits.  All it needs (aside from an arm) is a spring cup and the screw to hold it in there...and maybe (?) some sort of insulating washer between the spring cup and end bell...I think,  So, while I may be able to find a screw, I need help on the spring cup and whether or not there's a need for an insulator/washer.  The end bell hardware is horizontal, so your "average" spring cups are too tall.

 

IMG_1881_zps64vkxflt.jpg

 

Oh yeah and, I wound a #26 arm (pictured) with 20 degrees advance CCW to replace the existing Koford that has a short in it, and was tagged "27", whatever that means.  I used reclaimed Mura .007" lams, even though they're awful to wind on, especially at this stack length, because:

1)They're the only .007" lams I have.

2)They're also the only lams I have with a thick enough crown that I *think* can be ground down to .475" and still have some meat left.

 

Anyway. If you can point me to what I need to replace the missing end bell parts, I'd appreciate it...so TIA!

 

-john


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#2 SlotStox#53

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Posted 21 December 2016 - 05:57 PM

Can't help with the hardware help but the "27" tag I think refers to a hand wound group 20 ( 27# wire ) should be fun seeing you put this together :)
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#3 havlicek

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Posted 21 December 2016 - 09:31 PM

Jeepers...I thought there were hoards of strap motor users here, no info?  I'll see what Scott at PCH has, or Alpha.


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#4 Taylor Davis

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Posted 21 December 2016 - 09:35 PM

Koford sells the insulator for the spring cup.



#5 Taylor Davis

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Posted 21 December 2016 - 09:37 PM

Also there absolutely is a need, unless you want a dead short on your endbell!



#6 havlicek

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Posted 21 December 2016 - 09:45 PM

Thanks Taylor.  Looking at PCH, I found these:

maybe the spring cup?:

http://e-slotcar.com...ps-pr-kof-m608/

 

the insulators?:

http://e-slotcar.com...ators-kof-m282/

 

I couldn't find any of the tiny slotted screws, but think I have one that will fit.  I guess you have to just buy an assembled end bell to get those?

 

-john


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#7 Taylor Davis

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Posted 21 December 2016 - 09:51 PM

you can switch them to Phillips head if you like the phillips head are more readily available and those are the correct end Bell insulators.

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#8 MSwiss

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Posted 21 December 2016 - 10:14 PM

Koford stock # for the 0-80 screws is M256.

 

The cup looks likes aluminum.

 

Koford stock # for those is M281.

 

The insulator # is correct, M282.


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Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
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Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
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#9 havlicek

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 05:46 AM

Thanks for the help guys!

 

-john


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#10 havlicek

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 05:01 PM

OK...so I'm having trouble coming up with the Koford screws.  Are the anodized aluminum screws necessary for preventing shorts or will any 0-80 screw work here?

 

-john


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#11 Taylor Davis

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 05:08 PM

Yes, Les Wright, of Wrightway products sells them too

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#12 Fast Freddie

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Posted 23 December 2016 - 12:17 PM

That looks like the two old Koford  27 set ups I have.  They came with the "459" arm.  Mine are still painted black with the gold end bell.  They were my first GP27 motors purchased in 1989 I think, it was a long time ago.  Just some useful info you may not know, they used beveled single slot screws (a PITA to start without a screw starter)  to attach the end bell to the can even though the can doesn't have countersunk screw holes.  Koford also used the same screws to attach the end bell and can on their Int. 15 Feather motor, of the same time, but it had countersunk can holes.


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#13 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 23 December 2016 - 12:23 PM

I left the homepage up on my screen at work and my boss got really excited when he read the Tread title  lol.


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#14 havlicek

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Posted 23 December 2016 - 03:04 PM

Yes, Les Wright, of Wrightway products sells them too

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:D  Does the "yes" mean they need to be anodized aluminum?  I just checked with Wright Way, and they do have 0-80 philips-head screws, but they are stainless steel.  Is this OK?  If so, 0-80 machine screws aren't hard to come by in steel or stainless or even brass from any number of places online.

 

-john


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#15 Taylor Davis

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Posted 23 December 2016 - 03:06 PM

Sorry, they do not have to be anodized aluminum.

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#16 MSwiss

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Posted 23 December 2016 - 03:41 PM

While the anodized aluminum screws made things a little easier, you can use steel screws.

 

That's what appears to be on the endbell (M223 flat head)

 

The steel screw head should center itself in the cup, and not touch the inner surface.

 

And note anodized screws are not same as the hard coated endbell.

 

IOW, don't count on 100% insulating properties.


Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
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#17 Ramcatlarry

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Posted 23 December 2016 - 03:41 PM

Anodizing is the 'insulation'. Aluminum is for weight savings.  I use 0-80 allen hd SS cap screws.  They stay on the driver.  They anodizing of the alum endbells is prone to plasma brush arcing and showing up as shorts that plastic endbells never have.


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#18 zipper

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Posted 23 December 2016 - 03:44 PM

You just need the insulators to keep the screws from touching the spring cups - which was a notable problem with Koford endbells 20 - 25 years ago. A little misalignment or broken insulator - zzap.


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#19 MSwiss

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Posted 23 December 2016 - 04:04 PM

I don't remember a big problem.

 

Maybe guys assembling their own wouldn't realize you needed to rely on the screw being glued down, vs. tightening the screw down hard, and were breaking the insulator.

 

When testing factory ones, I would say you might have a problem 1 or 2 times out of 100 endbells.


Mike Swiss
 
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Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
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#20 zipper

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Posted 23 December 2016 - 05:50 PM

It wasn't a big problem - but sometimes it did pop up.  Most probably after some rebuild with damaged stuff.  I think maybe once with a new endbell - it was a surprise. Using epoxy or suitable Loctite was a must when rebuilding.


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#21 MSwiss

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Posted 23 December 2016 - 05:58 PM

Yes.

The biggest thing was when testing with a power supply for shorts, was when clipping to each hood, make sure you got at the bare metal, in the tapped side hole.

The pointy part(s) of an alligator clip jaw worked well.

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#22 havlicek

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Posted 24 December 2016 - 08:25 AM

OK...I think I got it, and will Loctite the screws in place.  Since the cups and screws (flat head) self-center, I'll use those, but boy is it a PITA as opposed to either button-head or philips head screws. 

So, I'm over here thinking the insulators go between the bottom of the cups and the end bell, but this makes me think you need them "IN" (!?) the cups to prevent the screws from touching the inside of the cups:

 

 

 

You just need the insulators to keep the screws from touching the spring cups - which was a notable problem with Koford endbells 20 - 25 years ago. A little misalignment or broken insulator - zzap.

 

 

I just want to be sure I'm doing the assembly correctly, and those itty bitty insulators are expensive sonofaguns!

 

-john


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#23 MSwiss

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Posted 24 December 2016 - 09:56 AM

Yes, the insulators go inside the cup.

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#24 havlicek

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Posted 24 December 2016 - 11:55 AM

Thanks again (and again!) Mike!

 

-john


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