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What is the value here?


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#1 Lone Wolf

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 09:51 AM

I must admit I know very little about this era. Why is this up to $71 already? Steel center section or front wheels maybe?
 
Looks like a piece of shizzle to me. Not particularly well done in my opinion.
 
What am I missing?
 
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#2 gc4895

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 10:11 AM

Really interesting how the photos are always concentrating on the body, almost always the least interesting and least valuable piece of the equation. Oh, gosh! A real amature interior paint job! Focus in!
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#3 MSwiss

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 10:15 AM

While a bit rough, it's a nice chassis from that era.

It was only about $24.95 last night, so I bid on it, on a lark.

Each time I bid, I automatically got outbid.

I gave up at $70.

Mike Swiss
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#4 Bill from NH

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 10:29 AM

That chassis is rebuildable, but someone may just want the Champion C-can. It looks almost new. Then we have one guy making seven bids and the auction leader making just 2. He must be someone who really wants it. :laugh2:

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#5 Lone Wolf

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 10:37 AM

OK, sorry if I spoiled this for someone who wanted it, but why $70? Where does the value originate?


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#6 MSwiss

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 10:38 AM

The leader only originally bid $24.95 but put in an automatic bid much higher.

My multiple bids just tripped whatever the max he is willing to pay.

Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)

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#7 MSwiss

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 10:44 AM

OK, sorry if I spoiled this for someone who wanted it, but why $70? Where does the value originate?


Nice Champion motor
Well made "Pro-style" chassis from that era (1970 + or - a year)
Decent Riggen fronts

It's easily worth $70.

I bet the current leader's max bid is much higher.

Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)

Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder (pointless era - LOL)
 
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Westmont, IL 60559
(708) 203-8003
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Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516. Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#8 Lone Wolf

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 11:14 AM

OK, thanks for the schooling  :)

 

Theres always more to learn. 


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#9 tonyp

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 11:22 AM

Team Nutley style center section, we sold the one with the ground down outer rail, pans are also team Nutley.

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#10 tonyp

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 11:23 AM

With the split rear pans, I'd think it was an east coast car.
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"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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#11 Pablo

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 11:33 AM

I'll add - nice drop arm and Cox gear, endbell looks in good shape, also sometimes the arms inside "mystery buys" will really surprise you....

 

I agree with it being valuable for it's parts. I'll guess it will go for about $100


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#12 Taylor Davis

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 11:40 AM

Note, it looks like it has speaker wire for lead wire. Also mentioned in another post. Haha

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#13 Lone Wolf

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 11:52 AM

As usual, Tony P friggin' nailed it.

 

Look what the guy just listed after I started this post. 

 

http://www.ebay.com/...l4AAOSwA3dYW~B1

 

Can't argue with genius  :)

 

Tony, did you race here? Wykoffs in Vineland. 


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#14 brnursebmt

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 11:55 AM

Looks as if the area in the front of the drop arm where the builder would usually engrave their name has been buffed away. 


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#15 MSwiss

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 12:16 PM

Note, it looks like it has speaker wire for lead wire. Also mentioned in another post. Haha

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Actually, what you see, is something much thinner.

 

Like the single Marklin wire, I think it's primary purpose was as a model train hookup wire.

 

I used some like that in triple, IIRC, marketed by Parma.


Mike Swiss
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Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516. Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#16 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 12:22 PM

I think the block of stuff offered is more interesting than the car.

 

Well at least as interesting.


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#17 Steve Okeefe

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 12:23 PM

Joe,

 

The value (to the bidders) most likely originates in the parts, although it is certainly possible someone wants to rebuild this for some inscrutable reason.

 

If it's just for the parts, the final bid could easily be half-again or even twice what you see now ($71, and there are still three days left!)

 

If it's for a re-build, and especially if the re-builder just wants to run the car, he or she might do better with a "Vintage-style" car.

 

I note the car in the auction appears to have 1/8" axles.  The Riggen fronts, the large diameter rear axle tube, the nylon spacers all suggest 1/8" axles - please correct me if I am wrong.

 

This could be a late 1969 build with an upgrade Champion C-can motor.  Steel centers, 3/32" axles and split pans all happened in mid to late 1969.  Champion C-cans didn't arrive on the scene until late 1970.

 

TonyP, do you remember when Nutley began selling their steel center?  Late 69 or early 1970 maybe?



#18 tonyp

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 12:24 PM

Lone Wolf, yes we raced at Vineland.


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"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
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#19 tonyp

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 12:27 PM

We started selling the centersections before Nutley moved to the Belleville store. I would think late 69 It is mentioned in the newspaper in the article where hochdorf won the race. I'll see if I can find it.


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"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
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Retro East co-founder
American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
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ip


#20 tonyp

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 12:28 PM

Ed Sohl used one at the Berwyn ncc race.


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"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
Noose Painted Bodies
Retro East co-founder
American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
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Car Model Magazine Series Amateur Champion
2016 ORS Anglewinder Constructors Championsh
ip


#21 SlotStox#53

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 12:43 PM

Thought it looked like a Nutley steel center car and put it in the watch list the other day :D Mighty clean Cee can!

#22 Steve Okeefe

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 02:22 PM

Tony,

 

Doing some quick research:

 

The race Eddie Hochdorf won was the 5th NAMRA Group 7.  It was held on February 28, 1970 in Nutley.  The steel center section is indeed mentioned in the MRJ article.

 

The Berwyn NCC race was April 4, 1970.

 

Eddie Hochdorf also won the 2nd Nutley Nationals on April 19, again in Nutley, turning a (then) record 485 laps in 40 minutes.  Brady cut a 4.32 lap in qualifying, another record.

 

So, the Nutley Products steel center section was available before the end of February 1970, and Nutley Raceway was still located on Franklin Avenue in Nutley as late as the last few days of April.

 

Shortly thereafter (May?) the raceway was moved to Belleville.

 



#23 MSwiss

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 02:50 PM

Nice Champion motor
Well made "Pro-style" chassis from that era (1970 + or - a year)
Decent Riggen fronts

 

 I note the car in the auction appears to have 1/8" axles.  The Riggen fronts, the large diameter rear axle tube, the nylon spacers all suggest 1/8" axles - please correct me if I am wrong.

 

This could be a late 1969 build with an upgrade Champion C-can motor.  Steel centers, 3/32" axles and split pans all happened in mid to late 1969.  Champion C-cans didn't arrive on the scene until late 1970.

Looks like I was right on the era.

 

The + or - was due to the 1/8" axle which would make you think earlier, and the Champion can, would make you think later.


Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
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Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)

Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder (pointless era - LOL)
 
Chicagoland Raceway
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Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516. Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#24 Steve Okeefe

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 03:12 PM

Bingo!  :good:

 

I'm thinking that massive solder joint that is holding the motor in was not done by the builder...

 

It will be interesting indeed to see what happens with this auction.



#25 slotcarone

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 06:36 PM

It's pretty funny the 3 cars offered by this seller from the same collection all have the motor soldered in the same very messy way! :)


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#26 Jairus

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 09:56 PM

After looking over all the cars the seller is listing.  I believe all are worth more in parts than as restoration projects.
Motors are all over the map, mix and match wheels and even a few of the pics were posted with the wrong listing.

Probably the seller found a few cars at a swap meet or garage sale.

They all should go fairly high.  Providing nothing is burned up or wrecked.
Bodies are junk.
Motors and wheels are the big value.  Well... and the chassis parts.
Shame the Riggen fronts are are one car while an alternate car has their matching rears.
The Orange Picker motor is getting pretty rare so I predict that one will go higher eventually.
The steel frame split pan chassis is very nice.
Should really have a B motor in there.

I'm not bidding as I have most of that stuff already.  But feels good to see the vintage parts finally come out of hiding.
Would be nice to have the 4-rail chassis tho.

 


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#27 Zippity

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 10:16 PM

Oh, that wonderful Weller solder gun.

 

Wish I had kept my Dad's :)



#28 MSwiss

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 10:27 PM

Oh, that wonderful Weller solder gun.
 
Wish I had kept my Dad's :)

  

It's pretty funny the 3 cars offered by this seller from the same collection all have the motor soldered in the same very messy way! :)

That's your answer, Mike.

Blame it on the Weller. Lol

That one looks like the one I had, a 100/140 watt.

When I was told to get an Ungar, by someone in the know, them trying to explain to me how the 40 watt Ungar would get hotter, was very interesting.

Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)

Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder (pointless era - LOL)
 
Chicagoland Raceway
17B West Ogden Ave
Westmont, IL 60559
(708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516. Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#29 Pablo

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 11:21 PM

He probably used paste flux, not acid. Which is a good thing in this case, otherwise you'd see corrosion all over the gear and motor, etc. :)

Unless he was real careful to fully clean after acid soldering........


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#30 SlotStox#53

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Posted 24 December 2016 - 03:57 PM

Upto $192 so far ! Someone really wants it, thought it would go higher but not that high. Was gonna bid a good whole back but waaay out of range now :laugh2:

#31 Bill from NH

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Posted 24 December 2016 - 09:12 PM

Only 3 different bidders,


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#32 MSwiss

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Posted 24 December 2016 - 09:34 PM

Nice Champion motorWell made "Pro-style" chassis from that era (1970 + or - a year)Decent Riggen frontsIt's easily worth $70.I bet the current leader's max bid is much higher.

Looks like I was right.

Appears to have been $190.

Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)

Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder (pointless era - LOL)
 
Chicagoland Raceway
17B West Ogden Ave
Westmont, IL 60559
(708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516. Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#33 gc4895

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Posted 25 December 2016 - 10:53 AM

Thanks for the history lesson on this chassis ! I would love to see the "flip side" of one of these.
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