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A big Santa surprise


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#1 havlicek

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Posted 25 December 2016 - 01:33 PM

Well, it seems Santa and my kids collaborated and got me a neat-o Grizzly 4x6 micro lathe:

grizzly.jpg
 
Jeepers, my son asked me what I'm going to make... to which I replied: "well, while figuring out how to use it, I'll definitely be making lots of squiggly metal turnings"!
 
Good golly Miss Molly, a micro mill, drill press and a bandsaw and I'll be in business. What "business"? Well, the business of figuring out things to make that I never thought of making, as well as how make things by machine I used to make by hand. :D  

Anywho, I figure there will be a lot of learning, broken tools and cursing (I am a carpenter after all, and we have our own dialect), all of which sounds like fun.
 
-john


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John Havlicek




#2 SlotStox#53

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Posted 25 December 2016 - 01:36 PM

Congrats! Oh the wondrous parts and goodies you can make with this :D Have fun!!!



#3 garyvmachines

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Posted 25 December 2016 - 02:10 PM

Hi John,

 

Looks like a sweet unit, for home... I need to get one now that I am going to retire. (I won't have use of the ones at work.)

 

People ask me all the time, what I do at work ? I say mostly make chips... We make more chips than parts... ha-ha.

Good luck... Ask???... Read books... Play with your new tool...

 

GAV


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#4 havlicek

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Posted 25 December 2016 - 02:45 PM

Thanks, guys.  

 

Gary, the size seems about right for the little doo-dads I might want to make. Since I have zero space for it, I got a small stand and can bring it out and set it up when in use. Weight seems good enough for being well-planted (around 30 lbs), but not nearly so heavy that I can't stick it somewhere.

 

 I also got a book from the same page that looks like a "Mini Lathe For Cretin Carpenters" kind of thing, some tooling and a chuck for the tailstock. Should be a "barrel of monkeys."

 

-john


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#5 Pablo

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Posted 25 December 2016 - 04:35 PM

Santa is the best!! :D


Paul Wolcott

#6 Booger

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Posted 25 December 2016 - 04:39 PM

If you need something to read about little lathes... type in "7x lathe" in your favorite search engine...

 

"Little Machine Shop" will now become your friend...

 

Most of these types of lathes and mills are made by a company called Sieg...

 

Start here... mini-lathe.com...  :D

 

Ho! Ho! Ho! Have fun!


Gary "Booger" Baker

#7 havlicek

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Posted 25 December 2016 - 04:45 PM

Thanks, Gary!

 

-john


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#8 Steve Okeefe

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Posted 25 December 2016 - 09:13 PM

Hi John,

 

Wow... Santa was good to you this year!  :D

 

Find yourself a sturdy tray about an inch deep to set the machine in when you're using it (an ordinary lunch tray will do) - it will help catch and keep those "squiggly metal turnings" (and cutting and lubricating oil) from going absolutely everywhere - like sawdust.  Been using one for years - works great!


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#9 Bill from NH

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 01:03 AM

John, you may end up with a larger investment in tooling than the cost of the basic lathe. That's what happened to me with the Unimat I bought in 1970. If you need a tray like Steve said, you could also look around at aluminum cooking pans, Some of them are tray-size with a low wall height. I have the Unimat mounted  on a three-piece laminated block of 3/4" plywood.with rubber feet for anti-skid.


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#10 havlicek

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 06:49 AM

Will do, guys... thanks!

 

-john


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#11 Kim Lander

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 07:54 AM

John....

 

You just don't know how much fun and use you will have with the lathe... you just opened another whole can o' worms so to speak... have fun, my friend.


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#12 Mach9

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 12:00 PM

Go ahead and find a spot for it, John. You're going to use it way more than you think!

 

And a mill will be next! Great Christmas present.


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#13 MarkH

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 01:18 PM

I have been in the Machining Industry for 36 years. This would be a fun little unit to have. Below are some thoughts.

 

Some basic rules:

1) Always wearsSafety glasses - God only gave us one set.

2) Always debur the parts.

3) Smaller diameters must be turned at a higher RPM to get the surface speed up for a good clean cut.

4) Use a live center in the tail stock when turning longer shafts of smaller diameters – it will keep the diameter consistent instead of the material pushing away from the tool pressure.

5) Never use a parting tool with the live center.

6) Never leave the chuck key in the chuck – you will forget and crash it into bed.

7) Never wear long sleeves that could wrap around the work or chuck.

8) The cutting edge of the tool should be at the center line of the material. Take a straight thin piece of shim stock or a 6" scale. Lightly press the cutting tip against the shim and the work. Look at the shim from the tail stock end. If the top edge of the shim is leaning away from center line you are too low. If it is straight up and down you are on center.

 

Recommended tools:

1) Good Micro Quick Change Tool Post – It makes it real easy to adjust the working height of the cutter and the tools will index back to their fixed location for repeatable tool changes.

2) Quality set of turning tools – Carbide inserts are good for most work. Sometimes HighSpeed steel cutters work better.

3) Get a Digital Readout - eBay and Amazon have inexpensive units. DRO-Pros have more expensive units but they also feature a diameter setting for the cross slide. The inexpensive units do not, at least that I have seen so far. So when you are cutting diameters you will have to divide the amount you want to take off by 2.

4) Center drills.


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Mark Horne

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"Racing is life... everything else is just waiting." Steve McQueen - LeMans
There are only two things in life that make me feel alive. Racing is one of them.


#14 havlicek

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 03:03 PM

Hi Mark,

 

Thanks for the info.

 

A good chunk of that I understand already from working with power tools and even a comm lathe (regarding position of the cutter relative to center).  

 

The rest I'll definitely refer to!

 

-john


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#15 MarkH

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 04:09 PM

Have fun John. It is always interesting exploring new tools and methods. Your mind will run crazy with ides for new neat stuff as your skills increase.

 

I had another thought. Instead of DROs you might be better served with travel indicators. Just set them up square to the travel the cross slide and carriage slide. I am sure most of your parts will be relatively small so a 2" travel indicator for L-R and a 1" for the cross slide and you are ready. You will most likely need to fab some holder for them. If you digital on the indicators you can set zero and know exactly how far you are turning down the diameter length. iGaging offers some inexpensive options. With the DROs you need to mount the scales to the machine. It just needs to be square a parallel to the motion but can be a PIA.

 

There are off the shelf mag bases for indicators but they might put the indicator too high. Just something that needs to be looked at.


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Mark Horne

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"Racing is life... everything else is just waiting." Steve McQueen - LeMans
There are only two things in life that make me feel alive. Racing is one of them.


#16 havlicek

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 08:17 AM

I'm told that the machine will most likely come with a heavy grease coating to protect it from corrosion that needs to be removed. If this is so, what's a good choice to do this? I see WD40 has a special product designed to do this and others that are environmentally friendly. I guess Simple Green might work also, but I'm worried about water-based products.  

 

Also, after cleaning, what's a good choice for general cleaning/lubing to prevent corrosion? So, you machinist-types, what do you use/recommend?

 

-john


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#17 lucapgt

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 08:45 AM

I have the same mini-lathe! 


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#18 havlicek

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 08:47 AM

Neat!


John Havlicek

#19 olescratch

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 01:32 PM

In regards to removing the heavy grease, mineral spirits is the answer. It will actually "thin" the grease while leaving a light coat of protection on the metal surfaces.

 

Now you have hit the point of "creation." It will be as interesting to see what develops from your mind in terms of ideas for parts to aid in the process.


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#20 MarkH

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 05:18 PM

We would clean new machines with WD40 when possible. Sometimes that coating is real tuff and we would scrap with plastic putty knives. When it is all cleaned up, oil everything with proper lube and spray a protectant coat of WD40 on all the machined surfaces. Wipe down before use to removed the dust and crud that finds its way on to the machine.


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Mark Horne

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"Racing is life... everything else is just waiting." Steve McQueen - LeMans
There are only two things in life that make me feel alive. Racing is one of them.


#21 havlicek

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 05:23 PM

Thanks again, guys.  

 

I'm sure I'll be asking more questions and, just as in slot cars... it seems Slotblog is a good resource for figuring out machining!   :)

 

I'm sure I'll figure out loads of things to do with this little guy (eventually, I'd like to try making a can for instance), but even just making replacement bushings for Mabuchi end bells out of modern ones could keep the thing busy for a while.

 

-john


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John Havlicek

#22 John Streisguth

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 05:50 PM

Check the operation manual, but most likely you will need a "way lube" (like Mobil Vactra) and also an oil for the bearings in the headstock and the leasd screws, which will typically be an oil like Mobil DTE. This is typically what's recommended for larger lathes. The way lube has a bit of tackiness to it, which helps a film stay in place.  

 

Most importantly, when you are done using it, wipe everything down (especially the ways) and relubricate. Nothing ruins the accuracy of a lathe faster then constant operation with fine bits of metal and other material constantly grinding away like a lapping paste.

 

McMaster-Carr is a good source. Maybe those mini-machine websites. (I order from McM almost daily, so I"m most familiar with them.)


"Whatever..."

#23 havlicek

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 06:21 AM

Thanks, John! I rarely go to McMaster-Carr onnacounta they seem to be high-priced. I should go and check them out again.

 

-john


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#24 MarkH

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 06:28 AM

McMaster can be a bit high but I have never received low quality stuff. Fast delivery and easy returns. Great place to find the 'hard-to-find.'


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Mark Horne

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"Racing is life... everything else is just waiting." Steve McQueen - LeMans
There are only two things in life that make me feel alive. Racing is one of them.


#25 havlicek

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 07:13 AM

Yep, whenever I did order from them there was never an issue at all with service.

 

-john


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#26 havlicek

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 04:49 PM

Well... I got it unpacked, and it's a cute little guy. Seems to be a pretty handy size for this type stuff.  Right off the bat,I can see I'll need a 4 -aw chuck if I want to work on stock other than round or hexagonal.   :)  Also, a little magnetic base work light for my not-so-sharp eyeballs seems like a good idea as well.  

 

-john


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#27 Geary Carrier

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 04:57 PM

Hi John,

 

You'll be makin chips before you know it...

 

Thanks,

 

g


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Yes, to be sure, this is it...


#28 havlicek

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 08:48 PM

One way or the other, Geary!   ;)


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#29 havlicek

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 06:41 AM

First impressions of the Grizzly Microlathe after cleaning all that sticky gunk off and making some chips:

1) The machine is very very compact, but is heavy/solid enough to be stable on a decent bench.  Still, it's light enough to stow away on a shelf.
2) It's overall size and capacity seems about perfect for a lot of what the average slot-car-centric tinkerer would want to do.
3) There's a good bit of backlash in all the feeds/cranks. I'll see about improving that (there are adjustments) some, but none of it seems to be a problem.
4) Power is surprisingly good. Even a carpenter knows you don't force a tool. Go slow, take smaller bites... who cares?
5) I fed a piece of 3/8" tubing through the hole in the chuck spindle, seems like there's even more room... maybe 7/16". Nice surprise!
6) Operation is straightforward, and the machine has good "safety features." I've seen some carpenters remove the guards from table saws (ahem   :D ), nothing like that is necessary here. It's certainly capable of inflicting damage/injury, but a pair of safety glasses and common sense is all that's needed.
7) The machine came pretty much assembled. Only the handle cranks and safety shield need to go on there. I checked the toolrest height with a tool installed and no shimming was necessary.  
8) I cleaned it, installed a tool, and made some cuts to get a feel for what's going on... "then" I read the manual. Fortunately, the manual didn't say not to do whatever I did after I already did "that"... so I'm golden!

Honestly, you wouldn't make a watch on the thing, nor would you be turning down cast iron sewer caps, but it seems pretty much a homerun. Throw in the fact that it cost about as much as some controllers or an open motor and takes up very little space and it's like what?... a two run homer?

If anyone is considering something like this, I think the Grizzly (same Chinese lathe is sold under other names) is a good bet:

Grizzly G0745 - 4" x 6" Micro Metal Lathe
 
It's not a Rolls Royce, but it seems to be at least a Chevy Impala... er sumthin'.
 
-john


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John Havlicek

#30 MarkH

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 07:07 AM

The backlash could have a couple of sources.

 

1) The class thread may be too loose. In other words the threaded shaft could be loose in the tapped nut.

2) The clearance between thrust bearing surfaces is excessive. Put an indicator on the handle and measure if the assembly can be pulled in and out. Shim as needed.

3) The nut is not designed to be securely fastened to the slide. It might be resting into a simple hole. Shim or make a new nut as tighten up.

 

You will figure it out. Just remember to always move the tool in the same direction to absorb these manufacturing tolerances. 


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Mark Horne

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"Racing is life... everything else is just waiting." Steve McQueen - LeMans
There are only two things in life that make me feel alive. Racing is one of them.


#31 havlicek

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 07:26 AM

Thanks, Mark.  

 

I'm on it, but as you said I just always keep moving in the same direction once I get going. My comm lathe has a bit of this too, and that's what I do. It never bothered me enough to actually try and correct the issue, although it's only very small with the comm lathe.

 

-john


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John Havlicek

#32 MarkH

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 07:43 AM

A couple thousands slop does not bother me. Anything over 10% of the dial and I do my best to correct it. Some of these materials are not the best even on "Industrial" equipment.


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Mark Horne

SERG - www.slotcarenduro.club
"Racing is life... everything else is just waiting." Steve McQueen - LeMans
There are only two things in life that make me feel alive. Racing is one of them.


#33 havlicek

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 07:59 AM

Same here, Mark. Taking-up any of that backlash just becomes part of working the tool and is just automatic.  

I just did a quick adjust of the cross slide and it's around .003" (at least as indicated by the crank markings), which is fine.
 
-john
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#34 Mbloes

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 05:32 PM

I am a carpenter after all, and we have our own dialect

 

In another lifetime I was a plumber and there is nothing like working construction to make you learn how to swear.


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Mike Bloes

#35 havlicek

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 07:30 PM

Oh, s**t yeah!   :)

 

-john


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#36 havlicek

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 07:37 AM

Question for the machinists.  I'm looking for recommendations for a parting/cutoff/grooving tool for the little Grizzly I got:]
 
Mostly (I guess?) for nonferrous (brass/aluminum) stuff, and there's a dizzying array of tools and tool holders.
 It seems as though HSS will produce the narrowest kerf (the woodworking term, but whatever machinists call the width of cut), but carbide would work as well. I understand that very small carbide cutters are more prone to chipping because of how brittle the material is, but I'm looking for pros and cons of cutter materials as well as cutter holders and types.  

For my first little project, I'm making some adapter rings to use 5mm and maybe 6mm bearings in the larger Mabuchi 26D (and Champion 26D/16D) bearing pockets). I have the main stuff done with an undersize ID cut, and have 5mm and 6mm drills coming to finish. When I get all that done, I'll need to cut off the pieces to length.  

Thanks in advance.
 
-john
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#37 MarkH

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 08:38 AM

First the difference between HSS and carbide is the following.

HSS requires less tool pressure to make the cut when properly ground profile for the job. It is better at finishing those final .002" to .0005" cuts. This of course assumes the material is not pre-hardened as your examples of brass/aluminum. Cobalt HSS will last a but longer and take more heat than normal HSS. May not be an issue until you get to copper materials.
 
Carbide came about to increase the cutting speed of materials for production. It takes a lot more heat and because of the insert geometry allows for quick cutting edge changes without have to reset the dials or reprogram the machine. Yes, the carbide is harder than HSS but requires more tool pressure to make the cut because the edge is not as sharp as HSS. Look under a 10x scope/eyepiece and you can see this. Therefore finishing up the final .002" to .0005" on the diameter may be tougher to do with carbide. A .015" radius on the insert will help reduce this argument compared to a .030" or .045".
 
Fresh drills will most likely give you a hole close to the size you want. I would get reamers to the exact size I want and finish holes size with those. Leave about .015" on the diameter before reaming.
 
Also be sure to use a center drill. Check the concentricity after machining to verify it is within your parameters. If it is running out more than you wish, rough out the OD leaving about .010". Drill and ream the bore to size. Get a piece of 2" long round stock and center drill both ends. This will be your alignment mandrel.

 

Turn a dead center out of brass or aluminum in the lathe chuck with a 60 degree point. Use a live center in the tail stock. Place the mandrel between centers and apply enough pressure with the tail stock to drive the mandrel. Turn the mandrel with a minimum cut to just finish the OD. Measure with a micrometer the diameter on both ends. Adjust the tails stock so the that end of the mandrel is the same as the lathe chuck end. If it is too big, bring the tail stock toward you.

 

Once you have them aligned you can placed your blanked out part between centers, again with enough pressure to drive the part for cutting. Turn part to final OD dims and it should be concentric.

 

Just remember the dead center must be turned each time you put in in the chuck to ensure it is running concentric to the spindle bearings.


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Mark Horne

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#38 havlicek

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 09:33 AM

Hi Mark,

 

Thanks for the info.  

 

Understood about drilling and finish-reaming, as well as the tailstock.  

 

I most appreciate the information regarding HSS vs carbide. I do have a narrow carbide tool, but was leaning towards HSS because I can get a very narrow and more precise cut, which leads me to the questions about tool holders and the best way to go..."best" meaning a combination of... works well, easy to change, solid and affordable.

 

-john


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#39 MarkH

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 09:42 AM

I will have to look around.

 

Aloris is top of the line. Not sure they make one small enough for your lathe. Seems like Micro-Mark had a good-looking tool post. The better design is the "wedge" lock. It repeats as close to zero as you will get. The style with the plunger that extends into the holder would take a back seat to the wedge design.

 

I know you are very much aware, but a tool post is something not to skimp on. It is a one-time cost you will enjoy the benefits from every time the power goes on for the life of the machine.

 

Stay tuned...


Mark Horne

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"Racing is life... everything else is just waiting." Steve McQueen - LeMans
There are only two things in life that make me feel alive. Racing is one of them.


#40 havlicek

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 02:39 PM

Thanks (again), Mark!


John Havlicek

#41 MarkH

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 07:30 AM

John, I am sorry to say I cannot find any decent quick change tool post for this small of a lathe. Seems like there used to be a couple of manufacturers according to a few sources.

 

The smallest setup I could find fit a 7" lathe. The Aloris post starts around the price of your lathe. Tooling to make machines work always add up fast.

 

Grizzly has a goofy-looking little setup that might work OK. I just don't know anything about it. The bottom line is the tool holder must be ridgid and that primarily comes form the post and how it mounts.

 

Sorry I could not be more help.


Mark Horne

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"Racing is life... everything else is just waiting." Steve McQueen - LeMans
There are only two things in life that make me feel alive. Racing is one of them.


#42 Mach9

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 11:13 AM

I have seen the quick changes for Taigs. Been wanting one for mine. I would think that's about what you need for this lathe. Will do some looking later.

A QCTP makes life easy!
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#43 Mach9

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 01:40 PM

HERE's one.

There are others I think. I saw another one that has been discontinued.

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#44 MarkH

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 03:50 PM

I did see that one at Little Machine shop. Seems like their lathe is a 6 or 7".

Looks like an OK piece but might be too tall for the micro. Maybe???

Mark Horne

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There are only two things in life that make me feel alive. Racing is one of them.


#45 Mach9

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 06:37 PM

Not sure, Mark. Didn't look at the specs too close. But it does say it's made for the Taig or Sherline and I think the Sherline may be a tad smaller than a Taig.


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#46 havlicek

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 06:13 AM

Thanks for the help, guys.  

 

For now, I'm not going to get a quick change. I'm really just looking for a good parting tool, and I think I got it covered. The quick change thing will come up down the road though.

 

-john


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#47 hiline2

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 02:09 PM

Wow... nice!!
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#48 Dave Crevie

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 03:12 PM

If you are going to make more than one part, such as wheels, the quick-change toolholder system is the best investment you will make.

Just measure the distance from the top of the cross slide to the center of the spindle/chuck to make sure you get the right size.
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#49 havlicek

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 05:11 PM

Thanks, Dave.  

 

I won't be making any wheels, but eventually will invest in a quick change setup. The lathe is actually a rebadged Sieg C080, and there are lots of parts for it at LittleMachineShop.com.

 

-john


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#50 Booger

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 11:39 PM

You need something like THIS for your turret style tool holder...

Use 1/2" blades,the thinner the better for these small lathes... 11/16" parting blades are too tall as is... I use this exact parting tool and it works fine, little 1/2 blade and all.
 
Most 9" and under QCTP will work with your lathe... but you won't be able to use 1/2" tooling, only 1/4" and 3/8"... You can modify it to use 1/2" if you wish.
 
There are aluminum QCTP with aluminum holders around for about $40... don't bother with them, junk!

You want something like THIS, takes normal style holders... You will need to change the holddown bolt. Guess who makes them?... :laugh2:
 
Little Machine Shop is going to become your best friend... They are very friendly and know these little machines inside and out.


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