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Anglewinder or Inline


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#1 Roger U

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 05:04 PM

I have a question.

From what I've read and heard in discussions of chassis it always seems to be agreed that anglewinders/sidewinders are faster around a track than inlines. I would imagine this is because the weight of the motor is a bit further back toward the rear wheels which should give more rear traction when accelerating and cornering (?).

OK... then why, when running inline cars, does adding extra weight towards the front of the chassis seem to help handling? Shouldn't we add weight to the rear of an inline to simulate an anglewinder? Or, shouldn't we add weight to the front of an anglewinder to even out their weight distribution?

Just wondering, thanks. :)
Roger Uusitalo




#2 GT40

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 05:28 PM

Roger,

I raised a similar question in Technical Info & Advice (March 12th). Several answers were offered, but I haven't found any of them really definitive. There has to be more than front/rear weight distribution at work there.

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#3 Mike Steube

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 05:59 PM

Roger, just remember. When you change one thing it affects something else. When you think you know what that affected thing is it will change just to BLOW YOUR MIND. :laugh2: I'm not saying any more. :laugh2:

#4 Roger U

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 06:10 PM

Steve, I guess I somehow missed your posting in Technical Info & Advice, thanks for pointing it out.

Mike, boy you got that right, whatever you said. :blink: :laugh2:

Thanks, guys. :)
Roger Uusitalo

#5 NJ Racer

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 06:14 PM

Check out the chassis pics and results of a race I was in on Saturday. That anglewinder was fast and had a great driver, but......

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#6 Mark Wampler

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 06:50 PM

Hi Roger,

There has been some previous discussion on the subject. Lots of speculation for sure, but to be certain, more power is delivered to the axle by the spur gear than the crown. Secondly, motors can be easily set for lower center of gravity, thus smaller tires can be used. I think the rotation of the arm in an anglewinder setup makes for better harmonics and gyro impact on chassis handling. FWIW.
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#7 endbelldrive

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 07:09 PM

From what I've read and heard in discussions of chassis it always seems to be agreed that anglewinders/sidewinders are faster around a track than inlines.

Never assume... and keep an open mind. :laugh2:
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#8 Rick

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 07:23 PM

One factor is the anglewinders can hold the HP better, ergo inlines went by the wayside.

But IMO, with the low power motors we are using, I think it could go either way now. I guess we will find out when/if they mix the NASCARS in D3. But that is a sidewinder.

At any rate would be nice to mix them...

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#9 slotcarone

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 07:37 PM

:D IMO the biggest difference in today's inlines vs our '60s cars is the angled pinions and Parma gears that give a smooth mesh without robbing any power.

Mike Katz

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#10 Mark Wampler

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 07:54 PM

That's a big improvement, no doubt, especially if you're running a hypoid setup.
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#11 Rick

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 12:21 AM

IMO the biggest difference in today's inlines vs our '60's cars is the angled pinions and Parma gears that give a smooth mesh without robbing any power.

The 16D is about .660" tall and the motor brackets "in the day" were about .330" to the centerline, add 7/8" tires and .062" clearance, there wasn't a need for hypoid style. It all worked straight and smooth...

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#12 MarcusPHagen

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 12:45 AM

... today's inlines ... give a smooth mesh without robbing any power.

The physics of an inline gearset will ALWAYS be less efficient than a sidewinder, with an anglewinder coming in better as the angle decreases toward having the armature shaft parallel with the axle. Part of an inline's power will always be pushing the crown gear toward the side, instead of rotating the axle. The anglewinder has less of this sideways push vector. A true sidewinder has none.

However, there are many other factors besides simple power transfer in determining whether a car is a winner. There might even be types of racing where the inline has an advantage. Looking at some of the magnet cars in the Marconi proxy race seemed to indicate that having a front-motored inline might have some advantages (to put more weight on the guide, and reduce weight far from the guide). Magnets then provided the rear-wheel traction without putting the motor and its mass on the end of a long moment arm. It was an interesting experiment.

As long as the classes don't mix inlines with angle/sidewinders, the power transfer deficit is moot.

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#13 Prof. Fate

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 12:54 PM

Hi,

And torque reaction loading one side of the frame every time you accelerate.

Fate
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#14 Mike Steube

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 01:19 PM

Rocky,

That's the first thing that impressed me back in the day when I built my first anglewinder. The torque no longer tried to turn my car over in turns. Dad used to wind the arms to turn in the direction that would cause the motor's torque to help in the most difficult turns on the track. The motor basically helped hold the car down going thru either right or left turns depending on the direction it turned.

Cool, slap a single 24 in an F1 car and do a torque test. You should see some results quickly. :laugh2:





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