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Gangster Caddy 4.5"


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#1 Pablo

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Posted 31 December 2016 - 03:57 PM

This monster Cadillac is a Don Campbell Racing product, DC1510, Brand-X.
No idea what I'm going to do with it yet, other than install a very powerful motor and a pair of dice. :)
Width is about 3" and the wheel wells don't allow anything to extend out - is this a drag body?
 
IMG_4502.JPG
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Paul Wolcott




#2 Bill from NH

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Posted 31 December 2016 - 04:38 PM

That car has got to be black with a hot C-can motor!  :sarcastic_hand:  FYI Don used Lexan for his bodies, not PETG. I have a couple DCR T-birds from the late '90 ands didn't recall what they were made from, so I PM'd Don to find out.

Bill Fernald
 

Some people burn rubber. I burn oil.  :roflmao: 


#3 Pablo

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Posted 31 December 2016 - 04:55 PM

Thanks, Bill. It's really crispy clean so no doubt you are right - it's Lexan.

The big question in my mind is, drag car, or Thingie, or ??

The wheels have to fit under the wells and that would be <3" - like 2-7/8"??
Paul Wolcott

#4 Bill from NH

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Posted 31 December 2016 - 05:31 PM

I never saw anyone drag race 4.5" cars, but I haven't seen everything yet. JK had the Cadzilla, maybe this is Don's update. Don also made a school bus at one time. I think that one was a drag vehicle. I don't see a rear spoiler, a chopped top, or any scoops on this one, so I'd rule out it being a drag car.


Bill Fernald
 

Some people burn rubber. I burn oil.  :roflmao: 


#5 garyvmachines

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Posted 31 December 2016 - 05:34 PM

Got to be a drag car... Pablo...!!!
 
GAV


Gary Vogeler

#6 bluecars

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 08:46 AM

Multie color metalflake lowrider.

 

If anyone can figure out how to put lifts in a slot car, it's you. I'll put my Steube Gr. 20 in my Cadzilla and race you to the woodshed.   :sarcastic_hand: :friends:


Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 


#7 Pablo

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 08:53 AM

With a wheel width of less than 3" I don't see it being a real good road course car...

 

Everything I know about drag racing slot cars will fit on the head of a pin.

 

I looked in the Rules Library - so many acronyms. Gary, where can I find them please?


Paul Wolcott

#8 slotcarone

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 10:11 AM

Pablo,

 

A Retro Stock Car is 4.5 wheelbase and maximum 3 inch track and they handle great!! And that body is probably lower!


Mike Katz

Scratchbuilts forever!!


#9 Pablo

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 02:39 PM

I see your point, Mike, and I'll take that into consideration.

It is actually just a hair lower than a Retro stocker body and I may be able to lower it even more.

 

But, look at the wheel well cut lines - designed to have the wheels inside the skirts. To prevent them from binding under flex I'd have to make the widths about 2-7/8".

 

Or cut the wells, which would destroy the "look" of the body IMO.

 

Also, Retro stockers aren't being pushed by heavy, gear stripping powerful rewound motors.

 

Not arguin' - just sayin'.  :)


Paul Wolcott

#10 Lone Wolf

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 04:35 PM

Love it!  Make sure you hit it with some chrome foil.

 

Not to hijack your thread but maybe this will give you ideas.

 

And what kind of lunatic would make a slot car out of a Caddy  :crazy: Not finished yet but there is much more work than meets the eye here.

 

DSC09722.JPG

 

DSC09723.JPG

 

DSC09724.JPG

 

ONWARD and Happy New Year  :victory:

 

 


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Joe Lupo


#11 Pablo

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 04:43 PM

Multie color metal flake low rider. If anyone can figure out how to put lifts in a slot car it's you. I'll put my Stuby Gr. 20 in my Cadzilla and race you to the wood shed.   :sarcastic_hand: :friends:

 

Red, you are (almost) as certifiable as I am, that's why I love ya :good:

Metalflake low rider, concur. I also like Bill's idea of black - very gangster. Lifts - no.

I don't think Bill Steube ever made a G20 arm, dude. If I'm wrong, Bill will tell me.  :)

Trip to the woodshed won't work - lowriders don't handle bumps too well.  :laugh2:

 

38662040001_original.jpg


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Paul Wolcott

#12 garyvmachines

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 04:52 PM

Hi Pablo

 

In the GSRA club, Drag rules are loose.

Chassis can't drag track... Wheels need to fit in wheel wells and under body .

Otherwise, inline or anglewinder, 48p or 64p, 1/8" or 3/32".

 

Make it up as you go... ;-)

 

GAV 


Gary Vogeler

#13 Pablo

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 04:56 PM

Thanks, Joe L. :good:  You know you can hijack my threads any time.  :)

 

Just looking for ideas at this point...


Paul Wolcott

#14 Pablo

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 05:00 PM

Gary, I've no idea what GSRA is.

 

If the rules are as loose as you say, how can a guy running a 1970 Ford Pinto with a stock Deathstar beat a G7 motor in a rail car?

 

Surely there must be some governing rules as far as classes and motors?


Paul Wolcott

#15 Cap Henry

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 05:25 PM

Bracket racing?


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CHR Cars
JDR-Joe Dirt Racing


#16 Pablo

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 07:20 PM

I found some drag rules here:

SDRA Rules
Paul Wolcott

#17 Bill from NH

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 07:42 PM

Pablo,

Bill Steube wound both Grp. 20 and 22 arms. I have one Grp. 20 and two Grp. 22s. I don't recall running the Grp. 20, but I've won open class wing races with the Grp. 22s. They are fast, low power arms. For a drag motor, you could get Havlicek to build you a high-timed Grp. 20 arm, then put it in a C-can set-up.
 
Most lowriders are equipped with an air lift supension of some type. All the real lowriders I've seen in this area have a compressor and such a suspension. No, they aren't used to plow snow in the wintertime. :laugh2:

Bill Fernald
 

Some people burn rubber. I burn oil.  :roflmao: 


#18 bluecars

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 08:01 PM

Thanks, Bill. I knew I wasn't that crazy. At least this time. :wacko2:

Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 


#19 Bill from NH

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 08:04 PM

Pablo,

Got any high-timed X12 arms? If not, I might have an older RJR X12 that is.

Bill Fernald
 

Some people burn rubber. I burn oil.  :roflmao: 


#20 SlotStox#53

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 09:17 PM

Cool-looking shell from Don.  :D

Maybe such a large car demands a hot big block? Get John to create a high-timed phat wire 36D with a set of Arcos perhaps?

Rick did a fabulous anglewinder 36D under a stock car body. I know this will be way narrower but I'm sure you could create a great handling inline. :)
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#21 Pablo

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 09:25 AM

OK I stand corrected on the Steube arms, thanks, Bill.

Yes, I have some X12 arms and yes I have an H-Power 36D.
 
All I need to do is make up my mind which direction to go...
Paul Wolcott

#22 Bill from NH

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 10:18 AM

Use a hot 36D as Paul suggested, it'll fit fine. Finding 36D Arcos may be difficult and expensive, unless you already have them, but John may know of alternatives. Too bad you couldn't find one of the Monty O. rewound 36Ds he use to build for BPR hardbody racing.


Bill Fernald
 

Some people burn rubber. I burn oil.  :roflmao: 


#23 boxerdog

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 10:24 AM

It's just an opinion, but a 36D from John in a NASCAR Cadillac would be really cool. 


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#24 Pablo

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 01:57 PM

The H Power 36D motor is already built - along with other "gear-stripping powerful" motors tucked away in my boxes of horrors.  :o

 

The (1/1) Cadillacs of that era were amazing vehicles and the (government bailout) ones they build nowadays are pure junk, IMO.

 

I'll be giving this one my full attention soon... meantime, some Caddy theme music:

 


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Paul Wolcott

#25 Dave Crevie

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 03:16 PM

That body appears to be about a '63. Back in the day there was a fella who went by "Black Bart", and ran a '63 Caddy CDV at the local dragstrips. The car was painted either flat black, or what we called Hot Rod Primer. I got up against him once in my '63 Fury, and was thinking I was going to blow his doors off. And was sure of it until the last 100 feet when he blew by me in the traps.

If you could find a picture, it might be something to model.

#26 Bobby Page

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 06:59 PM

Yes, I agree, you can't go wrong with black or metalflake. But every man should drive a pink Cadillac at least once in his life, especially if it has a little Las Vegas gold flake mixed in it:to_become_senile:     


Wrecking Crew says - " Give them nothing, But take from them everything " 


#27 Bill from NH

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 09:09 PM

The pink Caddies are Mary Kays. :)


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Bill Fernald
 

Some people burn rubber. I burn oil.  :roflmao: 


#28 bluecars

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 07:06 AM

We don't want to know how you know that, Bill.  :sarcastic_hand:


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#29 Cheater

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 07:17 AM

Too bad you couldn't find one of the Monty O. rewound 36Ds he use to build for BPR hardbody racing.


That would be pretty easy to find...

If he wants one, I have the one I won in a Slotblog raffle a couple of years ago, with Arcos and a Monty arm.

Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#30 Pablo

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 02:33 PM

We don't want to know how you know that, Bill.  :sarcastic_hand:


Uh, maybe because they have Mary Kay stickers on them ? Just guessing...
 
Greg, you can send the Ohren 36D if you want and all I can guarantee is, at some point it will go to a good home.
But I've no doubt the H-Power I have will strip gears and chew up donuts just fine. :)
 
I still haven't investigated all options for my Caddy just yet...


Paul Wolcott

#31 Bill from NH

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 03:03 PM

Red, some flat track racers (CASRA, ANE AMCA, PNW AMCA, & ISRA) have used Mary Kay hand lotion as a tire dressing for years. The few Mary Kay ads I've seen on TV have included one of her pink Caddies.

I think a pyramid scheme is involved, that when a salesperson sells a certain amount of her products, she gives them a new pink Caddie, too. Just so you know, I drive a silver Subaru and the only Caddie I've ridden in was a limo at O'Hare in Chicago and it was black. :laugh2:

Bill Fernald
 

Some people burn rubber. I burn oil.  :roflmao: 


#32 bluecars

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 04:27 PM

Amway comes to mind. In my early 20s I was invited to get rich. Lucky I didn't fall for their crap. But I did eat a lot of their donuts. :laugh2:

 

Pablo, I know what ever you do it will be cool. Hope to see you Sat. I know the weather isn't going to be great.


Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 


#33 Pablo

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 04:44 PM

I've made up my mind - it has to be a dragster. Anything else would be a poor compromise. 

 

Custom H-Power 36D can drive motor, 44 turns of 28 wire.

During break-in, shows classic happy signs typical of vintage motors - amps gradually decrease, level out, then slowly increase until steady.

Stayed room temp. When re-oiled and fed some volts, it's good.  :dance3:

 

IMG_4596.JPG

 

Pablo scratch built sidewinder chassis

- Wheel widths 2-3/4" front and rear

- Wheelbase 4.5"

- Guide lead 5/8"

-Threaded axles/wheels

 

I've never built a dragster before, so I'll need to study rules, gearing theories, etc.

 

Lots of homework to do...  :umnik2:


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Paul Wolcott

#34 Pablo

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 06:33 PM

These eBay horrors may serve as bad examples if nothing else :laugh2:

 

IMG_4607.JPG


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Paul Wolcott

#35 hiline2

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 07:35 PM

That will be eligible for the 36 Class drag races we running at DC PUNK!


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Paul Bass

#36 Pablo

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 11:11 AM

I learned some basics from the SDRA rules - 3D interior, clearance level 1/16", fronts >3/4" OD, rears >.950" OD, max length of wheelie bar 5" from rear axle.

 

There is no class for 36D motors, so I guess I'll just make it a "fun" vintage car.

 

The eBay horrors actually did help - with a gearing starting point. 16/48 = 3/1; wheel OD 1" gives a final drive ratio of 3.00. But that is a stock 36D.

 

So I did a "quick n dirty" - subtracted one tooth off the pinion to allow for the hot H-Power motor, 15/48 = 3.2/1; wheel OD 1", final drive ratio 3.20

 

A 1" OD wheel needs a .875" OD spur to clear 1/16".

 

Drag racers, if I'm making mistakes, please stop me.  :D


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Paul Wolcott

#37 hiline2

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 12:55 PM

There is no class for 36D motors, so I guess I'll just make it a "fun" vintage car.

 

We had a class for 36D motors in our last proxy race. I ran this one for fun with a Rambuchi in a Dynamic chassis.

 

IMG_4672ss.JPG


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Paul Bass

#38 bluecars

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 03:53 PM

Aren't drag strips 18v? That ratio sounds pretty high for 18v.

 

But I don't drag race, so what do I know. :crazy:


Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 


#39 Pablo

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 04:08 PM

You know about as much as I do, then.

 

SDRA rules are 16.0 to 16.2 volts.

 

To be clear, please define "high," and tell me what you'd gear it.


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#40 Pablo

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 08:01 PM

As usual, the answer (motor/gear configuration) came to me while dozing in bed at 2 AM.  :)
Just to make sure, I looked at a lot of gearing options today: 
 
IMG_4611.JPG
 
I'm convinced there is only one correct option for this car - idler gear setup. It's the only way to make it full sidewinder, and it won't hurt having the weight of the giant motor further forward.
 
My plan is, entire car sits flat 1/16" above the track, 1.033" OD rear wheels, .900" OD fronts, 48 pitch 10/43 gears, motor right side can mounted with an idler gear.
 
I finally found some good info on drag racing (right here under my nose at Slotblog - I should have known) which helped me a lot:
 
Unca Frank Eubel's enduring legacy
 
Thanks, Cheater.  :good:


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Paul Wolcott

#41 bluecars

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 04:01 PM

High and low gears is funny. 5 to 1 is lower than 2 to 1.

Looks like your heading in the right direction.

Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 


#42 Pablo

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 04:42 PM

Thanks for (finally) explaining yourself, Red, after two days. :) But no need to teach me gearing theory.

If you'd have read Slotblog as long as I have, you'd understand slot car racers have different ideas on what "low" and "high" gearing is.
 
You meant less pinion/more spur, and I agree. My original plan has changed in that direction; thanks for the updated input. :good:
 
My idler gear was inspired by a Zimmerman's proxy sidewinder car, and by Cheater's insistence that an idler has no bearing on gear ratio.
Paul Wolcott

#43 bluecars

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 07:07 PM

Lots of people have different ideas about things. Can't help that, what is, is.

As usual Cheater is correct about the idler.

Sorry about not getting back to you earlier. I space my time as I only have 5 Gigs a month. :)

Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 


#44 Bill from NH

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 09:00 PM

If you use an idler gear, mount it on a bearing to help reduce any added resistance it might add.

Bill Fernald
 

Some people burn rubber. I burn oil.  :roflmao: 


#45 Pablo

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 10:53 AM

First lesson I learned on idler gears: one bearing with a short shaft and a gear on it won't do. It would wiggle waggle all over the place. So it needs two bearings with some space between to stabilize it.
 
Walking the beach this morning, I found a perfect drag donut mounting cone - it's huge!! :crazy: :laugh2:

You can see my experimental gearbox gizmo, a work in progress, to the side.
 
IMG_4621.JPG
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Paul Wolcott

#46 bluecars

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 06:45 PM

Might be worth checking into a cupped needle bearing. A lot stronger for that app.

Also remember that the motor rotation must be the same as the axle with an idler but I'm sure you've already thought of that.

Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 


#47 Pablo

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 06:06 PM

Yep, I need to try a couple of those special bearings. Thanks for the rotation advice also. ^_^
 
Centering the weight of a 36D into sidewinder mode with an idler gear and 2-3/4" width is a challenge.
Maybe it would be easier if I didn't care about centering the weight left/right, but I do.
 
My gearbox gizmo was a failure but it did teach me a lot. My next idler setup will be considerably simpler, smaller, lighter, and stronger.
 
I don't have much to brag about yet, other than, I think these Buzco wheels and Riggen Magoo slicks would look cool
 
IMG_4624.JPG
 
Too bad the body skirts would hide almost all the view... hmmm that gives me an idea for the paint job...


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Paul Wolcott

#48 bluecars

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 06:59 AM

Can't tell if your mocking me or appreciate it.

Anyway nothing special about closed roller bearings, just a stronger approach.

Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 


#49 Bill from NH

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 08:25 AM

Red,

I had seen Timken roller bearings but didn't know what a cupped needle bearing was. I found some photos on the net. They're my "learning something new" item for today. Thanks!

Bill Fernald
 

Some people burn rubber. I burn oil.  :roflmao: 


#50 Pablo

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 04:18 PM

Cheater's oval special had an idler:
 
Cheater Wells Oval Specials
 
But my challenge is different than his, since he had plenty of room for the idler gizmo. 
My wheel widths are much narrower, my motor is much bigger, full sidewinder and on centerline, and the gizmo must be to the far right side.

Plus, I have a giant vintage gimbal bushing in the way.
 
Mine will share some similarities with Cheater's, namely, the sandwich design, precise tolerances, and difficulty to build.
 
I'm sure an engineer with a CAD program could do it in an hour. I ain't that guy.  :)
 
Here is what's left of my first gear gizmo experiment - bent, burned, and broken. :laugh2:
 
IMG_4625.JPG
 
I have high hopes for gizmo #2. Bigger brass gear, VXB BBs, 3/32" shaft.
 
IMG_4628.JPG


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