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JKRH motor issue


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#1 Brian Ambrose

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 07:04 PM

I have had a few new JKRH with this same problem. I break all my motors in the same. "Dry break in until the comm is dirty all the way across, sometimes taking 15-20 hours on 4 volts."

 

I am having what seems like "turbo lag." The motor seems to not have any low end power and then all of a sudden it takes off. Then slow down to go around a turn and it has no power again. Half way down the straight it takes off. I know I'm not the only one to have this problem. I also noticed it this weekend in the Orlando area. His motor was good after the race was over.

So my question is how many of you have had this happen to you?

Do you just keep running the motor or throw it away?


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#2 Jimmy Williams

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 07:18 PM

This happens all too often for me and local racers. This is not just a 7R issue; this has been occurring for over a year for me now. I have seen racers put in over eight motors and have this problem occur every single time.

 

We have not been able to find a solution to this, the only way we were able to avoid it was to switch over to the 4002FKs in our local racing.


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#3 Brian Ambrose

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 07:23 PM

The 4002FK motor isn't legal with us in Florida.



#4 Jimmy Williams

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 07:32 PM

I know that, but I'm just saying that this issue is so ridiculous that we couldn't even bother to use them any more. We still use them in Retro but only so many of them work the way they're supposed to. If you are required to race that motor then unfortunately you are going to have to deal with it, at least that is what I've been doing.
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#5 MSwiss

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 07:34 PM

I haven't seen it by me.
 
But to be honest, in my Wednesday GTP Wednesday, where that motor is used, we don't switch motors very often.
 
We only race on 12.2V and guys have told me they have 20 races on motors. Post #313@
 
Wednesday night racing at Chicagoland
 
As far as the comment, "I break all my motors in the same. 'Dry break in until the comm is dirty all the way across, sometimes taking 15-20 hours on 4 volts.'"
 
I doubt this has anything to do with it, but most guys say they are breaking-in their 7Rs in the car.


Mike Swiss
 
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#6 Racer36

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 07:40 PM

I have one that has a slightly different issue. It is a dog until I put about a hundred laps on it on my home track, then it wakes up and is a rocket. Let it sit for an hour and it is a dog again.
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#7 Samiam

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 07:42 PM

Sounds like the brush arms overheated and lost their tension. Try breaking in at 3-4 volts for 15-20 min. Then run them in on the track but don't overheat them.

 

I have broke my motors in like that and have never had the problem you describe. And I have had fast motors that only had partial brush contact with two contact lines on comm...


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#8 S.O. Watt

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 07:42 PM

I have had a couple of Hawk 7s do that this year, the etched ones that are current supply. None have been as fast as prior ones.


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#9 MSwiss

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 07:48 PM

I know that, but I'm just saying that this issue is so ridiculous that we couldn't even bother to use them any more. We still use them in Retro but only so many of them work the way they're supposed to. If you are required to race that motor then unfortunately you are going to have to deal with it, at least that is what I've been doing.


You should send the motors to Tim, so he can analyze them.

Mike Swiss
 
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Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
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#10 The Number of

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 07:52 PM

I have one that is doing that now and there are a couple others at the local track that do the same thing, Don't know what the problem is just replacing them for now, I feel your pain. :)
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#11 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 07:53 PM

Brian,

I'll bring you a gallon of St John's River water - that is the best way to remedy your RH issues.  

Like small children, they need to learn to swim and be drownproofed before you use them.  :laugh2:

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#12 tonyp

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 08:01 PM

Brian,

I have found some high amp motors do that on the lower power we have hear in Florida. They are fast when you are alone on the track but slow down when eight cars are on the track and run faster when people fall off.

I save the high amp ones for Ed's and run my lowest at Bill's and P-1.

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#13 John C Martin

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 08:10 PM

Same here, Dennis.

Four out of five do that, but it only takes a few mins.
I put some in water, turned them up to 12 volts and they come to life for a second but then go back to $hit

I'm thinking the comm slots are full of crud. Tried same procedure, 12 volts, while spraying with Pure still no good.

I give up and I don't fish either...

#14 Noose

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 08:20 PM

Jimmy,

I found higher amp reading motors did that at HVR but not ones in the .55 to .60 range. The motor of mine you ran last race was a .57 amp one.

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#15 slotcarone

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 11:21 PM

Everything that has been mentioned here is nothing new with these motors. All of these things have been happening since we started using Retro Hawk motors. Doesn't matter what batch they are from.

Nothing unusual for any FK style motor for that matter. Although I never had any of the FKs before the Retro Hawk do the lag type thing Brian is talking about. Many of the RH motors when run on the power supply holding it in my hand will vibrate and then smoothen out and rev up when I give the slightest squeeze to the sides of the can. Some will work in a car and others will not.

Don't have the answers!
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#16 John C Martin

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 10:03 AM

I've had at least a hundred Hawks over the years, but I've never before had the junk that these motors are. Tim should recall them and relabel them as turds or be used in RTR cars.

 

I do have a stash of old ones there's no comparison in their performance..so why is this thing even being sold as comparable.

 

Simple solution IMO. Let racers run PS4002 motors along with all RH 7 until JK can get their program together again.

 

If series don't take some action and some people run out of their old motors, which most don't have lot of ,it's going to hurt their attendance. At some tracks it has been said there is no difference in the overall lap times of the PS vs JK. This could be verified at all tracks.

 

I know where there's thousands of Kelly PS chassis that were sub standard, thousands of obsolete FX motors, thousands of obsolete tires. JK Tim, these motors should be put in that category and be put in RTR cars only...


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#17 MSwiss

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 11:09 AM

John,

Should Eric send the 7R motor he won both Retro East races with on Saturday back to JK to put in an RTR car? LOL.

Or Ed Sohl, John Gorski, or Steve Koepp, who podiumed with them this past weekend.
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Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
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Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
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Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#18 slotcarone

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 12:00 PM

I also ran a 7R for fifth place in the Retro East race. Not lacking for power at all and plenty of brakes.

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#19 Dominator

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 12:21 PM

I just got five and installed three into cars so far.

Two of them spin up good and draw good amps. The jury is still out on the third one.

The point is if everyone is looking for a $13 motor that is going to have a variance no greater than a tenth on the track it's not going to happen. There will always be some duds. Make sure the chassis and body are set up properly and one can cure 80% of the motor issue.
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#20 John Streisguth

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 12:58 PM

And the next batch will be different.  


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"Whatever..."

#21 tonyp

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 01:05 PM

The Chinese way.


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"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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#22 Noose

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 01:06 PM

Well, at least these are now more machine oriented and than human oriented. No pun intended.


Joe "Noose" Neumeister
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#23 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 01:09 PM

Track attendance already being affected. I know a track that has mandated only the new batches of RH with tan-colored etching.


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#24 Danny Zona

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 01:41 PM

I wonder which track, Charlie? LOL.


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#25 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 02:27 PM

DZ - I'm sure Brian likes us hijacking.

 

In other sporting industries, manufacturers take a much stronger role in sponsoring their respective events. I wonder why a slot car motor manufacturer doesn't make this bold move?

 

I could easily take the consumers away from competitors if I were selling this stuff... product sponsorship as prizes is a cheap way to be the presenting sponsor! It's not like the racing boards won't take their calls... 

 

"Buy 10 Get One Free' should be the motor marketing slogan ha-ha-ha and raise the prices so it does not cost anything, ($14 x 11)/10.

 

Slot boards should create motor standards with manufacturers that want market share... and are willing to earn it.


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