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Large Strombecker and original (?) Clidinst drawing


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#1 MSwiss

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 04:16 PM

I posted these earlier today, but I decided since they are not mine, I would repost with a few "marks" on them.
 
20170115_150934-2.jpg

 

20170115_150834-1.jpg


Mike Swiss
 
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#2 Mattb

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 04:45 PM

Here is a picture of the Strom BH. This is a resin body a friend made. It is just a static model and not original, although the molds were made from an original.

 

P1010005.JPG


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#3 Mike Patterson

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 09:55 PM

What's the deal with covering up areas of the drawings? I seriously doubt copyright infringement would be an issue.


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#4 Mattb

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 10:11 PM

I think all of Bob's original drawings are available from one of the Indy car resin casters. They aren't hard to get or copyright protected.


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#5 MSwiss

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 10:15 PM

Why is there a stamp here?

cuc_proto_14.jpg

I posted all those Strombecker blueprints recently, and someone paid good money for them.

If the same person, or someone else, buys the above, from my local racer, possibly they don't want them posted intact.

If they do, they can post them.

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder (pointless era - LOL) 
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mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#6 Mike Patterson

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 10:33 PM

Why is there a stamp here?

 

To show that the image is copyrighted by the LASCM. And by the way it is placed, it hides minimal detail. Whether that was intentional or not is up for debate.

 

I don't want to get in an argument, Mike. I was just curious. I thought the drawings were yours. And I like seeing stuff like this. Engineering drawings, a medium I understand.


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#7 MSwiss

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 10:43 PM

I made it clear in the first sentence they are not mine.

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder (pointless era - LOL) 
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#8 TSR

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 12:01 PM

Why is there a stamp here?

 

Mike,

 

That would be because this drawing and its rights were sold by the original artist to the LASCM, meaning it is effectively copyright protected.
Bob Clidinst donated much of his work to the public domain, but much of his work is also copyrighted and owned by his estate. Of course his survivors may not care, but legally they are entitled to that protection...



#9 Mattb

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 01:09 PM

One of Bob's sons was selling copies of some of his work a few years ago, but I think he finally gave it all to one of the guys that makes resin Indy kits. I guess Bob got to know a few of the resin guys in his area and one of those guys ended up with the stuff. Last I heard.
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#10 old & gray

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 01:25 PM

It’s interesting how times have changed.

When I make engineering drawings the rights are assigned to the company and there were papers signed by both parties.

When my wife went to a copy center to have a photocopy of her work made, she had to sign a release stipulating she was the creator and held the copyright.
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#11 Mattb

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 03:54 PM

I wonder about the gray areas of copyright law. Doesn't it have to be applied for? Doesn't it have to be re-newed and it doesn't just live on forever? If you sell an item like the Cuc drawing above, is your copyright automatically transferred or do you have to apply for it to transfer.

Lastly, how important is it for 50 year old slot car drawings?
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#12 Steve Deiters

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 04:16 PM

The nuances of the copyright laws aside, it would be great to see more of these drawings and a little history on them. It's all new to me.



#13 Cheater

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 04:28 PM

Copyright Basics FAQ

 

Copyrights really only become seriously involved if someone's work is reproduced without their permission and then offered for sale.

 

The first drawing in Mike's OP would fall under the category of "work for hire" and the any rights would belong to Strombecker Corp, which no longer exists. If that drawing was rescused from a dumpster, as I suspect, I believe the owners of the drawing and any rights would then belong to whoever pulled it from the trash.

 

But I am not IP attorney, although I've beeen chasing one down to interview for a story in recent days. 


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#14 old & gray

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 04:30 PM

I wonder about the gray areas of copyright law. Doesn't it have to be applied for? Doesn't it have to be re-newed and it doesn't just live on forever? If you sell an item like the Cuc drawing above, is your copyright automatically transferred or do you have to apply for it to transfer.

Lastly, how important is it for 50 year old slot car drawings?

 

As I understand it –

 

Doesn't it have to be applied for?

I do not believe so, I believe it vests at the moment of creation. Patents are applied for.

 

Doesn't it have to be re-newed and it doesn't just live on forever?

I don’t believe it needs to be renewed only defended. It lasts about as long as Mickey Mouse has been around.

 

If you sell an item like the Cuc drawing above, is your copyright automatically transferred or do you have to apply for it to transfer.

If you transfer an item (sell, give, etc) you have transferred the image not the rights to that image unless you specifically transfer those rights.

 

This is a sore spot with me because of the people with the attitude “I saw it on the internet so I can use it anyway that I want.”


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#15 old & gray

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 04:34 PM

Copyright Basics FAQ
 
Copyrights really only become seriously involved if someone's work is reproduced without their permission and then offered for sale.


No, an artist who was trying to "break in" was harmed when her early, "not for hire" work was posted on a website without permission, and would come come up any time her name was searched.
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#16 Cheater

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 04:35 PM

I don’t believe it needs to be renewed only defended. It lasts about as long as Mickey Mouse has been around.


Longer, actually. Follow the link I gave in my post #13.

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#17 Cheater

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 04:36 PM

No, an artist who was trying to "break in" was harmed when her early, "not for hire" work was posted on a website without permission, and would come come up any time her name was searched.


Wonder how monetary damages would be calculated in such a case? Plus most websites are not run by people with deep pockets and if there's no money to be made going after one, most won't bother.

Gregory Wells

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#18 TSR

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 08:46 PM

Monetary damages would have to be proven in court, but basic laws in each state has minimum fines if someone issues a complaint for violation of copyright.

In the case of that Strombecker drawing by Bob Clydinst, I am afraid that there is no one any longer to place any claim for such a violation.

In the Strombecker case, the company folded forever in 1982, and the principals are all dead. Hence a judge would likely place any Strombecker published material in the public domain, free for all, unless someone who would have a genuine claim would step up, and who would have to prove personal harm.

Very unlikely at this stage.

Hundreds of Bob Clydinst's fine drawings are all over the Internet, especially Indy cars websites. No one is complaining.



#19 Mike Patterson

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 10:40 PM

Wow! A very interesting discussion. And a civil one, at that.

 

And Mike, you are correct. You did state that the drawings weren't yours. Why that didn't register, I don't know. Brain fart.


We all need to believe in something. I believe I'll have another beer.


#20 old & gray

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 10:51 PM

Wonder how monetary damages would be calculated in such a case? Plus most websites are not run by people with deep pockets and if there's no money to be made going after one, most won't bother.

 

The artist wasn't trying to collect monetary damages but rather getting the images removed from the website, which was successful. Monetary damages were the case of the artist who walked into Walmart and saw her work on T shirts they were selling.  


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#21 Mattb

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 11:36 PM

Good info.
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