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Hong Kong rewind


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#1 don.siegel

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 06:11 AM

There was a discussion over on SlotForum about the later generation 16D type motors, especially those offered by Riko, as the Riko Rocket, Rikowhip, etc... all very confusing. 

Motor Identification Please
 
A couple years ago, I picked up a case of Hong-Kong made motors like this, I think labeled 160D. With this discussion I finally tach-tested one of them, and got an amazing... 12,100 RPM! Oops, that box wasn't such a bargain. 
 
Here's the H-K motor, along with, I think, a later generation Mabuchi (the black endbell), that revs up to 44K! It also has a label warning not to plug into the mains... 
 
FT16%20HK%20amp%20unkhown_zpsgnetbpkc.jp
 
Last night, round about midnight, I decided to rewind the H-K motor; magnets seem pretty good, so I put on 65t/30, a fairly healthy wind. It got very full, and I think these motors have less space than a regular Mabuchi, since I remember a 60t/30 leaving lots of room... The original wire was very fine and I tried unwinding it, but it immediately broke off, so had to cut it off. The tabs are just extensions of the copper, folded over and kind of crimped - couldn't even tell if the wires were really soldered to the tabs, or just held by pressure. 
 
Here's the rewound arm, not looking all that neat in the photo... epoxy and balancing still to come, but at least I rewound one after taking off a couple years... 
 
HK%20motor%20rewound%20arm_zpsd6jtsqp0.j
 
Cheers, 

Don


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#2 havlicek

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 07:42 AM

Excellent, Don!  

These motors were something of a mystery to me at first. I mistakenly read the motor as "16D", when the "D" was actually an "0", and the item number is 160.  

Anyway, the magnets are good, the arm is not particularly spacious as you noted, and the endbell is a major step forward in heat resistance. The can metal (still being a one-piece and "drawn" type) is much thicker than the old Mabuchi 16D can's metal, but the motor is pretty much a direct fit for older Mabuchi can-drive applications. The armature's powdercoating makes these a great candidate for rewinding today, much better than worrying about shorts and whatnot.  

 

Great to see you rewinding again!
 
-john


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#3 Racer36

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 07:43 AM

In the mid-'70s we were just starting to use 16Ds around here after a long run with 13Ds in scratchbuilts. I recall buying a 160D arm to put in my 16D and it was a rocket. We used them in Womps at that time and I won a ton with that thing.


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#4 havlicek

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 07:49 AM

More on these.  

 

There were (at least) two versions of these... one with a whitish ("natural") endbell and one with a black endbell. One version had sintered (although magnetic) bushings and one with ball bearings... the same sloppy type used in earlier 16D/26D Mabuchis.  

 

There were also at least two winds... one miserably slow one and one that seemed to me to be about "average" for the older factory motors.

 

I've gotten several batches of these over the last few years when I could, and use the parts all the time for rewinds and rebuilds.

 

-john


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#5 don.siegel

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 08:12 AM

Thanks, John - if you look at the thread on SlotForum, you'll see all these theories and possibilities... and whether there are ball bearings or not! 

 

This motor is clearly marked as Hong Kong, but on the black one, I can't read what's written on the endbell - is yours with the black endbell also made in Hong Kong? 44K was pretty good performance for the time, up there with the 26D (usually given as 39 to 43K). 

 

Don 



#6 havlicek

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 08:37 AM

Hi Don...

 

Both are of Hong Kong manufacture. I don't see them coming up on eBay any more, but they make for good parts motors, as well as (just like you did!) just good motors to work on when the originals in good condition are getting scarce.

 

-john


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#7 SlotStox#53

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 09:00 AM

Great job, Don!!

Got a case of those motors looking at me, deciding whether to offload them or get rewinding.  :D



#8 TSR

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 10:47 AM

These are Mabuchi motors made in their first factory outside of Japan, before they moved to "red" China in the early 1980s. 

The official name was 160D, matching an new in-house renumbering of toy motors. 

They were used in the USA on the Twinn-K 1/32 cars (McLaren M8D and Porsche 917-10) as well as on Parma RTRs and the last Nichimo slot kits with the anglewinder chassis, until Mabuchi stopped production of any such motors in 1977. 


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#9 Pablo

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 10:52 AM

Go, Don, looks fine to me :dance3: :D


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#10 olescratch

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 05:00 PM

Good start!  I'm trying to get to the point of being able to identify some of the older cans, and things like this tend to cause problems.  Is there any advantage in making the cans just a smig larger than the standard 16D?  Are the mags the same size, or larger?  Confusion for sure!  If that's a sample of the first arm you've rewound in years, I think doing more will create a neater wind so keep it up.  Seems like there are going to be a few more people giving winding a try in 2017!!!


John Stewart

#11 SlotStox#53

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 05:48 PM

I'm pretty sure the only differences are the can is a slightly thicker metal with the newer magnets and endbell both fitting the original can :)

#12 TSR

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 06:14 PM

And the endbell's nose and bearing housing are wider and larger, meaning that they cannot fit in in the older FT16 motor bracket without seriously enlarging the center hole.


Philippe de Lespinay
 
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#13 SlotStox#53

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 07:21 PM

And the endbell's nose and bearing housing are wider and larger, meaning that they cannot fit in in the older FT16 motor bracket without seriously enlarging the center hole.


Sure is, almost looks like you need a hole bigger than for a 26D endbell. Unless you can mount it with the circlip fitting or modify for screw fitting.

#14 havlicek

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 08:43 PM

The parts are interchangeable with the older Japanese Mabuchis except:

*The end bell bushing strap is wider which would be a problem with some of the cast chassis.
*The end bell bushing boss or molded area is also larger, somewhere close to the size of that on the Champion (*and the various 26D motors)
*The brush tubes appear the same on the outside, but are different on the inside, with a ring machined into the end.
*Because of the difference in the brush tubes, the end bell area where they "seat" is different.
*The can bushing looks the same on the outside, but it is fixed, and not rotating on the inside.
*The brushes are a slightly different size and do not interchange with the older Japanese Mabushi FT16D brushes.
*The armature is powder coated and uses a press-on brass ring for a tail spacer.

*The commutator looks virtually identical with those found on modern Chinese throwaway motors, having a molded-in spacer at it's bottom.

*Com connections are "welded", but the tab can easily be pried-away from the com body with an X-Acto blade.

*As I've mentioned, the end bell plastic itself on both the black and the "white" ("natural") versions is made of a tough/durable/heat-resistant material.

*The can metal is very thick.  While the internal dimensions are close to the same, this additional thickness *could* be a problem in some chassis.
*The ridge around the outside of the end bell is thicker, so it can "flush out" with the thicker can metal.  If the end bell is used with a thinner Japanese can, the ridge will be proud of the can metal...but can be sanded flush.
*Magnets are a little stronger than the Japanese Mabuchi FT16D stock magnets, but are a direct replacement size, and will fit the older cans.

*Magnets are retained in the same manner as in the older cans, a single U-clip and can tabs.


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#15 SlotStox#53

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 09:03 PM

Wow! That's a whole bunch of differences under the skin. Amazing about the brushes /tubes. Might as well call them 16D version 2.0!!

#16 Geary Carrier

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 10:26 PM

Hi John,

 

Now there's a detailed description if I ever heard one...

 

Thanks,

g


Yes, to be sure, this is it...


#17 havlicek

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 05:48 AM

Hi John,

 

Now there's a detailed description if I ever heard one...

 

Thanks,

g

 

I've used them quite a bit and had occasion to really go over them...I guess I need to "get a life". :D I forgot to mention above that internal clearance between the brush tubes and the plastic itself is much better than on the old Japanese Mabuchi end bells.  There's probably other stuff I'm forgetting off the top of my head.

 

-john


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