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Hand-out motors at major races


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#51 Phil Hackett

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Posted 03 February 2017 - 10:16 PM

It all comes back to _____s, every time... :dash2:


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#52 9lives

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 01:50 AM

Diana,

John Hegedus here. Hope you had a great race... and thank you again for letting me race your RetroPro car last year...

I truly missed seeing you this year. You are exceptional.

Do you race at any other events? Like the Fall Brawl? Please advise.
John Hegedus

#53 usadar

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 09:51 AM

1. I race slot cars because I like to win.

2. Hand-out motors may help fair competition but I would rather race at the major events where fair competition is guranteed such as strict tech, fair race direction.

3. When Retro Hawks become consistent thanks to Tim's recent great effort, I don't think hand-out motors won't be necessary except for such an introductry class as IRRA GTC-FK.

4. I understand hand-out Retro Hawks for Can-Am at the coming R4 seems to cope with a kind of transitional period of Retro Hawks.

Good Racing,

Haruki
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#54 Steve Deiters

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 10:01 AM

At the end of the day the track owner/race host rules prevail.  You can choose to attend or not, that's your call.  No problem.

 

The R4/10 is a handout motor race and I choose to be going.  If it was not a hand out race I would also choose to go.  Slot racing is slot racing and the major (and minor) races are few and far between so let's decide to attend and support them while we all still can.  I always refer to the R4 as the slot racing equivalent of the "gathering of the clans".  It is way more than just what is taking place on the track.


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#55 Tom Thumb Hobbies

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 10:47 AM

4. I understand hand-out Retro Hawks for Can-Am at the coming R4 seems to cope with a kind of transitional period of Retro Hawks.

Good Racing,

Haruki

 

EXACTLY !!

 

When it appeared that we might have a problem with the HR a few months ago, and before we had any additional evidence pro or con, I started working on a plan to use handouts at the R4/10 out of necessity. Obviously this is something that can't be put into place overnight. Since then it appears the "7R7R7R' is a solid motor with little variability. Just like JK was shooting for.  But, there is a difference between the current batch of HR and the previous. There are many more "Silver Bullets" from that batch then from the current batch. And considering the chance of finding an exceptional motor from the "7R7R7R" batch is much smaller, if you don't have a "Silver Bullet" motor already you probably won't find one.

 

I could have just mandated "7R7R7R" motors only, as a few have suggested.  But I think this is something that needed to be tested. After all, what if the next batch of motors, due to Chinese QC (?) is all over the place in performance? And the playing field can't be made much more "level" than this.

 

If you are staying home because of this decision I understand. We all would rather you came, everyone is welcome, but if you don't come we will still have a great R4/10. Just as in past R4 events, we will have close racing and a great time regardless of who attends. I'm not sure if the entry numbers will be up or down. Doesn't matter.  Big races doesn't mean good races. But at this point I have received MANY more positive comments than negatives. We will see in just a few short weeks.......


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#56 Wizard16

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 12:06 PM

John,

We missed you. Hopefully everything is alright. I generally attend the Sano in Chicago, the Checkpoint and the R4. Since we're not having a race at St Maarten this year I am planning to attend the SWC in July. I decided the Fall Brawl is a little too much for an inexperienced racer when there are classes which I don't normally race in addition to tracks I have never run upon. Plus I moved from NJ to Houston a long time ago to get away from bad weather lol.


Diana Dyckman

#57 Bryan Warmack

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 12:31 PM

Mike,

     The SCRRA chose to run a hand out Hawk Retro 7R7R race at the Checkpoint last weekend in Can Am for all the reasons you cited. :)


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#58 9lives

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 04:09 PM

Haruki, John Hegedus here. Will you and friends race at BPR this summer? The Western States or whatever they call it..... Donna has given me authority to race in Japan...what is your equivalent to the Checkpoint Cup in Japan? Please advise.  We missed you all..... Chen Can  Sun, Quonectiwa Wa [sp] !!!!! My home telephone number is (562) 343-2186.  Cell (949) 677-4467. Please give me a call to discuss....


John Hegedus

#59 kuni123456

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 11:51 PM

I do not like the hand out motor because I would rather have the cars set up before the race and do last minute tire changes at the track. I know that there are racers who have a very difficult time breaking in and installing motors because of physical limitations and racing should be easier for these racers. 


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#60 Tim Wilkins

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:47 AM

Now that it's been proven at the Checkpoint Cup and the R/4 that enough fast 7R motors are surfacing, I think it's time to do away with the hand out motors.  Spend the extra time practicing and fine tuning what you brought to the race track.  As John W. mentioned, racers with vision handicaps and other issues won't have to scramble to get their cars ready during the short window just prior to the race.


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#61 Half Fast

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 04:12 PM

Now that it's be proven at the Checkpoint Cup and the R/4 that enough fast 7R motors are surfacing,

 

OTOH this is a pretty good argument in favor of handout motors. As the 7R's are so equal it is unlikely that anyone will get stuck with a real dog.

 

Cheers


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#62 JerseyJohn

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 05:14 PM

I do not like the hand out motor because I would rather have the cars set up before the race and do last minute tire changes at the track. I know that there are racers who have a very difficult time breaking in and installing motors because of physical limitations and racing should be easier for these racers. 

THEY SHOULD END HANDOUTS FOR ALL CLASSES >>> its served its purpose, when we were running Puppys. The current r4 proved that the same guys win  regardless of handouts or not .so whats the point ? 


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#63 Matt Sheldon

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 05:58 PM

THEY SHOULD END HANDOUTS FOR ALL CLASSES >>> its served its purpose, when we were running Puppys. The current r4 proved that the same guys win  regardless of handouts or not .so whats the point ? 

You are being narrow sighted and just looking at the top 8-10 guys, not the remaining majority of 48-50. I will be curious to see the interval spreads once Mike recovers and has some time to figure it all out. While the R4 may have seen familiar faces filling the A main, I believe that the handout format propelled some new faces into the top 10-16. It also changed how these guys were prepping and the diversified voodoo magic was fun to be a part of throughout the pits. I think it proved that the 7R lack luster performance is a myth.


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#64 Josh Crutchfield

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 06:01 PM

Look at the results John. There was a eight lap difference from first to eighth in the handout can am a main. Seventeen laps difference in the use your own motor F1 a main. Should tell you something.
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#65 MSwiss

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 06:38 PM

I think it proved that the 7R lack luster performance is a myth.

I would think a record 303.3 laps, by Willy, in the Can-Am Quarters, would be pretty good proof.

 

At the very least, maybe the (Tenn.?) racer that suggested Tim throw all the 7R's in the garbage, will retract that statement. LOL


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#66 JerseyJohn

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 07:21 PM

at our last Retro east race 5 mains were separated by only  3 tenths. My point is that the current 7R is a solid performer. So much so that how you prep the car and drive is whats making the difference. We have seen the difference already. We have A Mainers in the C main now because competition is that close. everyone has an equal chance. So why do we need a hand out.? 

The can Am R4 results would have been the same without a handout  because the 7R is that consistent.  

 my 7r was running 4.1 for a top of D. The a main was 3.8 how does a handout make this better.In every main the top 4 are usually spaced less than 2 laps apart. What would a hand out benefit this. I like most guys in Retro East dont like handouts. We are older guys that like to get our stuff ready before raceday and not have to thrash around the day of the race. 

FYI i was an early proponent of the 7R its made raceing so much more fun that even running in an E-main, you have to to drive your *** off to podium.


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#67 Matt Sheldon

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 07:31 PM

at our last Retro east race 5 mains were separated by only  3 tenths. My point is that the current 7R is a solid performer. So much so that how you prep the car and drive is whats making the difference. We have seen the difference already. We have A Mainers in the C main now because competition is that close. everyone has an equal chance. So why do we need a hand out.? 
The can Am R4 results would have been the same without a handout  because the 7R is that consistent.


The A Main maybe, but I believe there were more regular guys in the top 50% because of the hand-out structure. Josh proved that you can walk in the building on Saturday with an arrive and drive and run in a low-prepped motor and click off low 4.6s. Obviously he is a great driver, but it gives hope to the guy that thinks he has no hope because of a product/performance disadvantage.

He also turned low 4.6s with my car, a couple tenths faster than my best race times. It proved to me that the car is secondary to driving skills, but extremely equal once the same skill sets are presented.
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#68 willy wonka

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 08:00 PM

Josh proved that you can walk in the building on Saturday with an arrive and drive and run in a low prepped motor and click off low 4.6's. Obviously he is a great driver, but it gives hope to the guy that thinks he has no hope because of a product/performance disadvantage.

Josh had help with his motors they were broke in before he arrived. Not taking anything away from what he did. He was flying. A good car set up will make any motor look better than it truly is.
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#69 JerseyJohn

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 08:06 PM

The A main maybe, but I believe there were more regular guys in the top 50% because of the handout structure. Josh proved that you can walk in the building on Saturday with an arrive and drive and run in a low prepped motor and click off low 4.6's. Obviously he is a great driver, but it gives hope to the guy that thinks he has no hope because of a product/performance disadvantage. He also turned low 4.6's with my car, a couple tenths faster than my best race times. It proved to me that the car is secondary to driving skills, but extremely equal once the same skill sets are presented.


Matt,

I appreciate your response. If you guys are happy with the result then go for it.

As for me, having a hand-out motor in Coupe is plenty. For me to travel nine hours for hand-outs in two of three classes just doesn't thrill me. Again it's my opinion in what works for me.

I mean no disrespect. A lot of people love lobster; I'd rather have a Jimmy Buff hot dog LOL.
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#70 Josh Crutchfield

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 08:16 PM

I bought two motors and a fellow racer broke them in at 3 volts for ninety minutes. I only put a pinion on one and raced it. I could have broke the motor in the morning of the race and had the same results.
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#71 JerseyJohn

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 08:57 PM

What ever works for you Josh. It just doesn't work for me...I go out of my way to be prepared. I like to take my time. I'm not the best so the extra time helps. One race I changed a motor. Bad move. Lol anyway I spun the crown because I rushed and didn't tighten it . Doing all that break in , bolt in and test the day of a race just is not fun for me...
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#72 mgerbetz

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 09:11 PM

So,What is the purpose and reason for hand out motors ?

Please chime in. If the purpose and reason is to make things more "fair", that is a bunch of malarkey.

This is racing, and this "everyone gets a trophy" fair stuff stinks.

I hope the reasons for doing handout motors are benefits to the track and hobby.

Handout motors in one class is ok by me. 2 of 3 classes, eehhhhh.....
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#73 slotcarone

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 09:27 PM

:) I'm with Jersey John on this one. I too like to show up on race day with my cars all sorted and maybe play with gearing and tires to find the best one for the track on that day. At least I know what I have going in. I am not against hand outs and of course we need to do this to help support the raceways. For me it is just extra thrashing on race day and too much for this Geezer!!


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#74 Half Fast

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 10:51 PM

One other point... With hand-out 7R motors you don't have to worry about a rocket non-7R motor from a competitor. Those motors varied more widely and there are (were) some missiles out there.
 
Nevertheless, the non-hand-out guys have made some some strong points as extra trashing is a PITA.
 
Cheers.
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#75 Jason Holmes

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 03:17 PM

Hand-out or non-hand-out doesn't matter if I want to go I will and prep is all done at home motor still gets put in at the track.

The only thing I want at a hand-out race is a three motor limit. Don't make it a pocketbook race. Get the break-in down to 15 min each motor: break-in, cut shaft, solder pinion, three motors, 45 min. Then you need 50-100 laps on the track. Now it looks like at place like the R4 that may be hard but at the Brawl or the CPC have yet to have any problem.
 
just my 2 cents.
 
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#76 Taylor Davis

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 03:36 PM

I have to admit I was a bit rushed on race day sorting motors, but as far as break-in I had six motors with pinions on, cut shafts, and broken-in water within an hour.

#77 Jay Guard

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 06:13 PM

Like some of the others I have to say that the hand-out format definitely made for a pretty substantial "thrash" which did take some of the fun out of the event for me. Nonetheless I was able to get all six motors prepped and broken-in in the time allowed. However due to not having the foresight (my bad) to have four or more Can-Am cars prepped except for the motor I wasn't able to get all of the motors tested in the limited practice time available. Nonetheless I was able to find a couple of very competitive motors so it was all good.  

 

All that said Mike McMasters (and crew) did a fantastic job of making the event run smoothly.  Not only did he do a great job of designing the entire process but most importantly he staffed the event with enough hard-working, knowledgeable people to insure a successful event.  

 

On top of that the race directing was some of the best I have ever seen, awesome job, Mike and Eric!

 

Bottom line is this, was it my favorite format, no, but I would happily come back next year even if the same format, hopefully with a few minor time tweaks, was going to be used.


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#78 kuni123456

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 10:34 AM

I know that the Retro Hawk R-China motors as a group are faster than the Retro Hawk 7R-China motors, but you still can find a good 7R-China motor. I do not like hand out motors because I had faster motors in my box and could not race them. I think that you should be allowed to race any legal motor in your box or why race? The number of racers is decreasing every year and we need as many racers to continue the racing program. 


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#79 Jason Holmes

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 10:48 AM

I think Handout's are Fine at Major Race and in SoCal I hope we keep doing it But you must bring your A race prep game that Day have all your ducks in a row and all will work well

 

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#80 Samiam

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 10:52 AM

John,

 

You have a valid point. But many racers may look at the box of 50 motors some guys show up with and walk away. They are not willing to fork out built motor program money in a sealed motor class. 

 

My suggestion to you guys who cherry pick through dozens of motors is to keep it to yourself. If anyone asks how you got that fast motor, just tell them you bought it off the wall. And sandbag during practice. Scaring away the racers we do have won't do any good.


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#81 Mark Wampler

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 12:07 PM

You know a little variety is a good thing for a successful race program.  If only 2 or 3 major events happen within the year, then compared to the number of  monthly and weekly races,  handouts mix things up and makes for interesting outcomes.  New racers will feel they're playing on a level field.


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#82 Fast Freddie

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 09:51 AM

I think hand-out motors are great for guys like me who don't invest hundreds if not thousands of dollars in trying to find the top 1% motors. I feel like I have just as much chance to win as the next guy. I raced the Flexi Nats at SpeedZone and had no problem racing a hand-out motor. With hand-out motors you may still have the cream rise to the top, if they didn't catch a bad motor, but also allow mid-pack racers to shine a little also. 

This coming from a racer who everyone knows is not an advocate of sealed motor racing but with hand-outs it works for me.
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#83 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 10:04 AM

Fred,

So you were happy with your hand-out motor and finish position in the LMP race?

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#84 Fast Freddie

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 10:02 AM

Dave,

 

I was happy with the motor, not happy with my finishing position, but I have no delusions of grandeur. My time came and went in the early '90s when I raced six different classes and regularly TQ'd and podiumed in all six. I'm sure if I was thirty years younger I would have done much better.

 

 Now I just like to participate and make it through all 8 heats without any major malfunction. I also only race three-four times a year. That was my second race on both tracks so yes I would have liked to finish better, maybe next time.

 

I have no doubt that if Matt Bruce had my car he would have won the race. I had a very good car and motor, the car had a marginal driver.    


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Fred Younkin

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 10:55 AM

Fred,

 

These whippersnappers will learn all about what it means to get old, if they actually do get old... LOL!


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Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#86 Fast Freddie

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 03:03 PM

We got to cut them some slack while they still know everything. LOL.


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Fred Younkin





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