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Jig wheels - anyone making any that are round?


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#1 James Grandi

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 12:39 PM

I watched Tony P's chassis building seminar (it is on YouTube, broken up in many parts at the moment ), and I noticed that he uses round jig wheels for both front and rear of the car.

 

It got me thinking, it would make a few things easier with building the cars and checking things along the way.

Currently, I just use the square blocks that come with the Precision jigs - but I'm wondering if there are any round options available? Short of going the custom-made route anyway.


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#2 SlowBeas

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 12:46 PM

R-Geo made them at one time. Not sure if Rick still offers them, but you might check.


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#3 tonyp

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 12:46 PM

I think Precision has round ones also. Bryan Warmack made mine.


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#4 Dominator

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 12:54 PM

Just turn down some Parma 29 crowns.


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#5 mgerbetz

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 01:23 PM

R-Geo makes them; contact Rick.

Great to deal with.

Mikey


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#6 James Grandi

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 01:29 PM

Rick no longer offers them, he sold out of what he had already unfortunately.

Precision has a set that are half-round, but still have a flat bottom area.

I'll take a crack at trimming down some spur gears and see if I can get something right there. I don't know Bryan, but if my own attempt should fail I'll see if he would be willing to make a set.

 

Thanks, guys.


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#7 Alan Dodson

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 01:51 PM

PCH has some round jig wheels by Carlisle, but it looks like they are for wing cars.



#8 Cap Henry

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 01:59 PM

JK sells transport wheels that if you take the O-rings off are supposed to be jig wheels.

I'll check their OD after work.

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#9 tonyp

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 02:02 PM

Check if they are round. The couple of sets I bought were really out of round.
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#10 Cheater

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 02:16 PM

The best jig wheels I have used were by two brothers in AL who were satellite engineers in their day jobs.

They sold these, as well as my favorite stamped steel chassis jig and a fabulous body mounting jig, under the Advanced Body and Chassis label.

Made of Corian or something similar, I was told they were accurate to .0001" and my experience is that was not an oversell. I still have one new set somewhere in the garage as well as a new chassis jig in the bag.

ABCjjigwheels.jpg
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#11 Half Fast

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 02:17 PM

Greg,

They don't look round to me, which is what James asked. :)
 
Cheers.
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#12 tonyp

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 02:19 PM

LOL.

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#13 Cheater

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 02:20 PM

LOL...

It's pretty obvious you're an effin' lawyer, Bill!

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#14 Noose

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 02:24 PM

He patently is.


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#15 James Grandi

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 02:54 PM

Square, I am familiar with - I like the idea of being able to roll the wheels with it still flat on the jig plate (thanks for that one, Tony).

The square ones also tend to magically find the tiniest piece of brass or piano wire debris that inevitably end up, well, everywhere LOL.
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#16 Cheater

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 02:58 PM

Suit yourself... LOL.

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#17 The Number of

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 03:07 PM

They don't look round to me, which is what James asked. :)


These are alternative round wheels. :)
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#18 Cap Henry

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 03:33 PM

Check if they are round. The couple of sets I bought were really out of round.


That very well could be. I never used them for jig wheels.


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#19 olescratch

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 03:53 PM

These are alternative round wheels. :)

 

Ouch!!!


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#20 tonyp

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 03:56 PM

Hillbilly jig wheels.
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#21 Bill from NH

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 06:28 PM

The Carlisle jig wheels mentioned earlier are plastic. Perhaps OK for setting up a flexi, but I wouldn't want to use them with the heat you're apt to find on a chassis jig.

Carlisle does make a line of quality slot car tools.

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#22 Greg VanPeenen

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 07:20 PM

Shell out about three or four grand and buy a decked-out mini precision lathe and make your own. That way you can make them just like you want them. 
 
Or you could just check the bottom of the ones you have to make sure none of that pesky junk is living down there before you use them.
 
I have used flat and round and see no problem with either.
 
Regards,

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#23 W. J. Dougherty

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 07:31 PM

What would be the advantage of round jig wheels vs. the flat ones? Both are only as good as the tolerances they are made to...
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#24 Samiam

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 07:46 PM

They don't look round to me, which is what James asked. :)


There's round, and then there's "alternative round." :laugh2:
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#25 Zippity

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 08:06 PM

Anyone making square axles?



#26 James Grandi

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 08:09 PM

GVP,

When I have 3-4 grand I can afford to spend on a lathe, I will absolutely take liberty to make my own - til then, I'll probably ask if someone else already makes them first lol.

W.J., it's not a question of tolerance - the PSC blocks are definitely accurate. I just noticed a few checks being done in Tony's chassis video that were easily performed with the round wheels he has - which can't be done in the same manner with the square blocks. And I like the extra room that a round wheel allows, as it can get pretty tight up front when building with certain chassis components or some of the more intricate scratchbuilt rail designs.
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#27 Bill from NH

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 08:40 PM

With round jig wheels, you don't have to be constantly looking to see if you have the right surface on the jig. You also don't have to look to make sure both sides are set for the same diameter wheel. I use a set of the old Champion red anodized jig wheels. I had a friend cut them down in the '70s and sleeve them for 3/32" axles...
 
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#28 MSwiss

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 11:33 PM

What's a good dia. to make rear round jig wheels?

 

.710" ?

 

Or smaller?

 

For fronts?


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#29 wbugenis

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 10:46 AM

Seems to be a trend here.
 
Racers and manufacturers alike should get and learn to use a set of v-blocks and a dial indicator (low $$ on eBay).
 
TIR (total indicated run-out) will always be important on anything rotating on an axis (wheels, gears, axels, armatures, beaing and magnet installation slugs, jig wheels, etc.).
 
Stating TIR as 0.002" is a meaningful comment - "looks roundish" is not meaningful or useful.
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#30 Phil Hackett

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 12:10 PM

Anyone making square axles?

 

Yeah... you think this is funny?

 

I know of an engineer that made triangular axles, which had just enough of the axle OD to work properly. Except they didn't... for a very not obvious reason...


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#31 MSwiss

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 12:39 PM

Phil,

 

If it's not an obvious reason why don't you go ahead and tell us.


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#32 gc4895

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 01:22 PM

I have the Precision jig "squares." They work - but, honestly, I wish I still had my original Champion jig wheels from the '60s. 

 

The precision squares are unquestionably precise in terms of size. They are also too light (easily disturbed or moved or displaced such that they sit on the wrong side!), too thick (take up too much space on the jig), and critically for me anyway - have no set screws so they can't be fixed in place. I have replaced them with Sonic metal gears that I find are much more friendly to use. Sadly, these metal gears are no longer available but I have a few left-overs.   

 

I actually think there is a market (albeit small because we are talking slot cars here!) for well made, well thought-out jig wheels. 


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#33 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 02:26 PM

It's impossible to get gfears to be perfectly level if you're using them as jig wheels. If you use the set screw to hold them in place the misalignment will be even worse.

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#34 Zippity

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 02:32 PM

Care to explain in more detail?

#35 Bill from NH

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 02:44 PM

Old Fass brass spurs, turned to the proper diameter, make good jig wheels., Some have a 3/32" bore, others have a 1/8" bore with a machined reducer for 3/32".


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#36 MSwiss

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 02:54 PM

As already mentioned, Parma crown gears, turned on a tire truer, probably work good enough.

IIRC, if you use a 30t, and mark the contact surface with a Sharpie, chances are pretty good you'll get the whole diameter to clean up, and still be usable Retro sizes.
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#37 Don Weaver

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 04:29 PM

I made mine from Weldun anodized aluminum gears turned to size. To solve the off-center created by set screws their taper lock gears would probably be the best.


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#38 kvanpelt

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 04:57 PM

I've done a search but can't seem to find Tony's builds on YouTube. Would someone care to share that link? 


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#39 grooverunner

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 05:13 PM

Here you go, Kevin.
 
Yonyp chasis builds on YouTube
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#40 kvanpelt

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 05:19 PM

Thank you, Ken!
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#41 S.O. Watt

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 05:33 PM

I like my round Duffy Built jig wheels and his accompanying axle jig bushings, all made out of stainless (as are the longgg axles he supplied).
 
The narrower round jig wheels allow better access with a soldering iron for me.
 
Old gears do work just fine if you have access to a tire truer or even a drill motor. Just don't overthink it...
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#42 tonyp

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 07:04 AM

I still use my Duffy bushings they are great. Unfortunately I lost one of my rear jig wheels. It will show up eventually.

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#43 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 08:48 AM

Underestimating the importance of the little things is a good way to fund my race bucks stash.

Those who work for a living are being quickly overwhelmed by those who vote for a living.

Thomas Jefferson: "Paper is poverty. It is only the ghost of money, and not money itself."
-David Parrotta


#44 MSwiss

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 10:05 AM

How many dozen races have you won in a row? LOL.


Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder (pointless era - LOL) 
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#45 wbugenis

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 10:38 AM

Dave is a pretty dominant racer at his home raceway. Holds lots of track records.
 
Helps local kids but thrashes the adults who don't put as much work into their cars as he.
 
2015 (I believe) Group 10 USRA (4 inch NASCAR) champion.
William Bugenis

#46 MSwiss

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 10:53 AM

Bill,

By the numerous times he has reminded other posters, here and on OWH, believe me, I'm fully aware of his resume.

I'm just highly entertained by his posts.

Having plenty of confidence and swagger certainly help winning slot car races, but I think he is the only person I have ever seen describe his own work as impeccable.
  • tonyp likes this

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder (pointless era - LOL) 
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#47 wbugenis

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 11:26 AM

Lots of bad behaviour from where I sit in slot car raceways -  most a lot worse than anything from Dave.
William Bugenis

#48 MSwiss

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 11:34 AM

I don't remember saying or suggesting anything about bad behavior.

Just a little heavy on the braggadocio.
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Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder (pointless era - LOL) 
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#49 wbugenis

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 11:44 AM

It's a matter of perspective and degree.
William Bugenis

#50 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 05:03 PM

To be a successful Slot builder/ Racer one should strive for perfection, falling short of perfection is human and expected.   If you set yourself up for failure your work product will be flawed and your technique will never improve.

 

Bill,

Though I do often respect his opinion, I've found that arguing with Mike is an exercise in futility.


Those who work for a living are being quickly overwhelmed by those who vote for a living.

Thomas Jefferson: "Paper is poverty. It is only the ghost of money, and not money itself."
-David Parrotta






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