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GTC coupe weight?


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#51 Half Fast

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 08:04 AM

Taylor

You admit you're new yet you continue to lecture guys who have been in the game for 10+ years. You need to listen to sound advice and experience more, and lecture less.
 
You will find out how your 100 gram cars works when you get to the R4.
 
Cheers,
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#52 Samiam

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 08:06 AM

For those of us who don't have lightning fast reflexes and precision driving skills the weight is our friend.
 
Building a chassis from a kit is the easiest way for most. Getting it built under 60 grams would be quite a feat. With all the rest of the parts needed to outfit the car coming in at 50-55 grams it would be nearly impossible to build a 100 gram car without doing some pan trimming. 
 
The Wing guys would add tire glue. We add lead.


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Sam Levitch
 
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#53 Cheater

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 08:06 AM

Taylor started slots in wings, I think, or at least raced wings before he got into Retro, and the wingers are pretty obsessive about weight, you know. He'll get over it... LOL!
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#54 Noose

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 08:09 AM

And aren't wing cars shorter wheelbases these days? Short in Retro works on super fast Kings. Not so good on on other tracks though.

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#55 Noose

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 08:10 AM

Taylor started slots in wings, I think, or at least raced wings before he got into Retro, and the wingers are pretty obsessive about weight, you know. He'll get over it... LOL!


Taylor needs to talk to Joe "Chubby" Salzman. Word has it he is still pretty good in wing cars and Retro, too.

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#56 Samiam

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 08:26 AM

I think Cheater should have specified "car weight " :D.
 
But he's not kidding. At WFPJR this past weekend I found one of those windowed guide spacers wing racers use. Can that really make an on track difference?
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Slot cars are quad-pods.
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#57 James Grandi

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 08:26 AM

Here ya go - that center weight in this car here weighs about 6 grams. Factoring in the rest of the frame weight and the components to be added, it will be a 108 gram car, leaving 2 whole grams to put wherever one pleases. This center can be made from thicker or thinner brass, in order to have a wider range of tuning options, or removed completely.

Like you, when I came into Retro racing I paid close attention to the minimum weights and built cars targeting those numbers. The end result was usually this - fast in the center lanes, a nightmare to drive in the gutter lanes. Drivability is king and there is no award for lightest over the scales.

IMG_9093.JPG
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#58 Danny Zona

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 08:32 AM

Adding weight is pretty easy, IMO.
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#59 Danny Zona

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 08:36 AM

When I first started Retro I was obsessed about being right at 100 grams.

Not so much any more!
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#60 Cheater

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 08:52 AM

I think Cheater should have specified "car weight."


Wing guys are concerned about tenths of a gram in body weight (you must have seen diaplanes that have been lightened with a hole punch), tire weight, gear weight, motor weight, etc., etc. But, yes, it's all about weight of the car.

Those windowed guide spacers were first sold by Kelly a long time ago AFAIK; I still have a few I think. I'm pretty sure they weren't made especially for wing racing, but rather were an existing product from some industrial application just brought into the slot parts stream.

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#61 Bill from NH

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 09:10 AM

I thought those windowed guide spacers (the bronze ones) came from Hershman. Here in northern New England during the early 2000s, we only saw a few Kelly bodies (that melted when you tried to heat-set acrylic paint on) but not much of anything else. The distributors (Eagle, ERI, Gonsalves) the local raceway used back then seemed to carry a lot of Fast One products.

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#62 tonyp

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 09:14 AM

When I first started Retro I was obsessed about being right at 100 grams.Not so much any more!


I taught you well. LOL.
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#63 MSwiss

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 09:21 AM

IIRC, the holey guide washers were made by Red Fox / Gugu, and marketed by both him, and Kelly.
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#64 tonyp

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 09:28 AM

They make a major difference on a Retro car... LOL.
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#65 Cheater

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 09:28 AM

You're probably right, Mike. Most of the Kelly hard parts were simply rebagged Red Fox items.

Wonder if Gugu had them made? I'll try to remember to ask him thenext time I see him.

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#66 Brian Cochrane

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 10:13 AM

I 've been slot racing for many years and when I started Retro racing two years ago all my cars were on the heavy side. I wanted to stay on more than I wanted to have a missile. What good is light and fast if you come off every third lap, plus the risk of trashing the car. I was happy to just make laps.

 

Then I eventually put my stuff on a diet but I didn't get carried away. Winning a B, C, D Main can be just as cool as winning the A Main.

 

I personally love the way all the rules are and to me change is not good.

 

I would like to thank all of the people who work their asses off so we can have our fun. They are saving the hobby/sport for future generations...


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#67 Half Fast

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 10:21 AM

Congratulation, Brian, on earning your third dot!

 

I knew you could do it.  :D

 

Cheers.


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#68 Cheater

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 10:24 AM

See, guys, it isn't a totally thankless job... LOL!

 

Stability of the rules is the Prime Directive of the United Federation of IRRA® as far as I am concerned...


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Gregory Wells

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#69 Jimmy Williams

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 10:28 AM

If the car starts at 98 grams how is that car going to work at Tom Thumb? It's not, not every track is an American King, these are national rules for every track, including punchbowl kings so it would benefit being less than 110 grams.


If the car starts at 98 grams, you are going to have to get it up to at least 106 anyways to be able to keep the car on so whats another 4 grams?
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#70 old & gray

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 11:36 AM

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” - George Santayana

 

Group 12 wing cars used to have a weight limit in the high eighty gram range. Since we had the technology to make the cars lighter and they’ll be faster there was a move to reduce the weight.

 

I don’t object to the change to the steel chassis. Even though it obsoleted everything we ran, it was a more durable car. The lower weight meant the aero setup became more critical to having a drivable car so the learning curve took a sharp upturn and the number of entries when down. Since the cars could be lighter the motors went on a diet, the result was removing structure from the motor until the cans would bend in a crash and/or knock out the magnets. The result was fewer entries and fewer survivors at the end of a race.

 

When I came back to racing I had to make a hard choice. I enjoy building motors, I enjoy setting the tire and aero on a body to my driving style, and I like using glue to set up the lane to what I feel was correct; but traveling once a month to race against five people just wasn’t how I wanted to spend my time.

 

The current rules work, where “work” is defined as close racing and sufficient entries for multiple races with marshals. Let’s stick with a working set of rules rather than take the easy path of weight reduction in the pursuit of speed.


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#71 MSwiss

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 11:45 AM

No need to buy a new car, just do what you say you intended to do and "balance" the car out at 110 grams.

 

Exactly, Ralph.

Taylor obviously can't ditch the wing car, lighter is better, mojo.

You would think after getting beat, by an out-of-towner, by 10 laps, on his home track, with a virtually identical X25R, except obviously heavier, becaue the back end wasn't all chopped up, he would of figured out, a heavier car is probably going to be faster on anything but the easiest speedbowl.


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#72 Rick Moore

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 12:45 PM

It is no secret I am not the biggest fan of minimum weight rules. That said, more often than not, I also understand the importance of unified and consistent rules, so I’m not about to argue for any changes for the sake of change at this point. However…

 

The exception I will take in this discussion are categorical statements along the lines of “more weight equals better handling”, or the sidebar anecdote that “shorter wheelbase is harder to drive”.

 

I’m one of those guys whose chassis builds, not from kits as you may have seen, for Can-Am class cars tend to give RTR weights that run close to or under the 100-gram minimum. In my own delusional mind I also like to think these convoluted contraptions I’m building are not so bad when it comes to being competitive. Some of you also may have noticed that, on a lot of these rather weird wiry chassis I’m building, the addition of up to ten more grams of lead to get them to GTC’s minimum is not so easily accomplished. But that’s my problem. However, from testing I can confirm this: the addition of lead to any of these cars has never helped their handling characteristics or performance. In most cases it is a hindrance. Again, that’s my problem.

 

As far as the “short wheelbase” thing, I’ve built three chassis designs (CMF’s 1225, 1229, and 1237) where I constructed identical chassis except for the “wheelbase” dimensions (also with varying RearAxle-GuidePivot and Guide Lead), and in all three cases the “short” (3.75”/4.75”/1.00”) chassis performed as well or better than its longer versions, and were just as easy to drive… so, I’m just not seeing it…

 

But, hey, it’s not like I build anything normal.

 

The minimum weight rules are fine. Whether I like them or not matters for naught. Just don’t try to convince me it’s because it makes a “better” slot car.

 

Your results may vary.

 

Now that Can-Am Plus is using the same motor as Can-Am, methinks I need to build me a no-minimum weight car…

 

Rick / CMF3 







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