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New motor break-in


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#51 usadar

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 06:51 PM

Haruki, are these chemicals something that is especially marketed for slot racing, or are they something that just happens to promote quick motor brush break-ins? Does one apply the green bottle cleaner before the pink bottle chemicals are applied, or is the cleaner for cleaning out the pink bottle chemicals once the motor brushes are broken in?


Bill,

This product was originally developed for the previous motors for Kyosho Minitz R/C cars (now their motors have become brushless).

Some people use this for Tamiya Mini 4WD motors.

1. You clean and moisturize the comm with the green cap.
2. Run the motor at around 2 volts, put a few drops of the pink cap on the comm.
3. Wash and clean the comm with the green.
4. Repeat this procedure until you see the brushes seat on the comm perfectly.
5. Clean the motor with motor cleaner and/or naphtha thoroughly and blow it dry.

When I broke-in 30 new Retro Hawks with this chemical for the RetroPalooza 7 last year, most of them burned at testing 5 or 8 volts on the power-supply.

The surviving motors burned at the first few laps on track at the Port Jefferson King, so I had to use the left-overs of the Checkpoint Cup.

I first thought I hadn't cleaned well enough.

At the RetroPalooza 7, howevwe, Tebu broke-in three hand-out Retro Hawks for GTC with this chemical in front of me, perfectly cleaning them with naphtha and jet air, but all the three burned when they were run with the power-supply. We all had to break-in the hand-outs in water.

The present batch of Retro Hawks seem OK with this chemical for quick break-in.

Haruki


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#52 Chubby

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 12:13 AM

Hi ya'll,
 
I see and understand both sides here.
 
I however wouldn't see a disadvantage of having the brushes properly radius to the comm and or softer brush. I understand brush formula can be very difficult as well, even if you start with the brush being properly to the comm, I dont see how that would reduce people racing and longevity of the motor, if anything it will be more efficient IMO.  

There's always gonna be good ones and bad ones no doubt about it. As Bryan posted earlier, the brushes in the older motors were most definitely softer/different. Maybe Tim can clarify this?  

Anyhow, going fast and being more efficient is always key for any type of racer, but definitely more towards the newer racer. I'll be the 1st to tell you that these motors for $13 are truly amazing on how consistent they are.  

All im trying to say is, with what we have, we could have better for us as racers and for Tim at JK. Maybe im wrong, maybe turning or changing the brush will increase the price, these are things we don't know, is it worth it?

I'm all in. :)
 
Chubby
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#53 Bryan Warmack

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 03:55 PM

Just a couple cents to throw in here from the Left Coast...

JK, please leave the brushes alone! The Hawk Retro 7R7R is just fine the way it is and at the recent Checkpoint Cup the racers found that they were more than fast enough, quite reliable, consistent, and a great deal for the money!
 
The constant changes, whether they have real or perceived advantages, aren't really necessary and just end up creating extra work for all the people in charge who are trying their best to insure a level playing field for everyone! :)
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#54 Matt Bruce

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 01:13 PM

If you want a fast effective way to break your Hawks in or any FK motor, try my Simple Green method.

 

Spray motor out with Pure to clean the factory grease and oil first. Then dunk motor in straight Simple Green cleaner at 3 to 4 volts for 5 to 10 seconds. Pull it out, check to see the brushes are across the comm, if not repeat for 5 second cycles till the brush is seated.

 

Some have hard and soft brushes so best to sneak up on it, but it doesn't take much time at all. Once the brush is seated, spray the motor out again to remove the Simple Green, blow it out dry, oil the shaft ends lightly, then either stick it in the car or if you have time, run on power supply at 2 to 3 volts for a few minutes then put it in car and run. Within a few laps it's ready to race.

 

Water break-in is OK but the Simple Green puts the entire process on steroids, gets the motor super clean, while providing a quick brush wear rate without ever glazing the comm.

 

Just remember 5 to 10 seconds is all you want, anything more and you are just wasting good brush wear for motor longevity.


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#55 Samiam

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 01:48 PM

Matt,

 

Thanks. Good information. I'm going to try this.

 

But I got to ask how many other substances did you experiment with before hitting on one that worked? I've heard of people using naphtha, vodka, and even urine.


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#56 Tim Neja

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 02:27 PM

I'm with Bryan – no more changes please!! The motors are working fine at this time – as equal as we've seen. There's always going to be variation, nothing can be done about that. But consistency in manufacturing is a must!! It helps keep things even and equitable for all.

 

Thanks for all you've done, Tim – the Retro Hawks are working great.   :)

 

And thanks Matt for your break in suggestion!  I've been using tap water!  I'll have to try some "Simple Green"!! :)


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She's real fine, my 409!!!

#57 Brian Cochrane

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 02:41 PM

Thank you to Matt for giving a great answer to my post on how to cut down the break-in time on a new motor...

Thank you for your help!

Brian
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#58 Zippity

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 03:34 PM

I now have another use for the bottle of Simple Green that I have down in the garage.
 
Thanks, Matt.  :)
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#59 olescratch

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 04:32 PM

Who the hell thought of using urine to do anything with? Now that's just going too far. And who would want to deal with the smell. Too much info, should have kept that one private.
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#60 Pat Skeggs

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 05:12 PM

Thanks, Matt. This method will help in a hand-out motor race for sure. I tried water, but it's hit and miss.

Simple Green stock should go up this week.


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#61 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 10:07 PM

Would Purple Power work the same way?


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#62 Shooter7mustang

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 02:50 PM

What is Pure?


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#63 Jay Guard

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 03:05 PM

It's a solvent spray made for cleaning out electronics and electric motors without leaving a residue or film.


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#64 Butters37

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 05:19 PM

Performance Plus-4 is the same thing. Endorsed by reedy and available at almost every hobby shop. Bigger can also.


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#65 Jason Holmes

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 10:13 PM

Just got four cans of CRC 5103 from Amazon for $19 with Prime. Works the same as Pure.

 

Jason 



#66 Tim Neja

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 10:46 PM

How'd you get that? The case price is $68?


She's real fine, my 409!!!

#67 wjtaylor

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 02:14 AM

In the early '80s I was the parts manager for a Japanese manufacturer of business equipment.

 

A new printer was designed by a major manufacturer of printers and was released to the industry. The company I worked for installed these printers into a new line of cash registers. Almost immediately these printers started having problems starting the print cycle. When I examined these motors, I found that the motors brushes were installed like the brushes on the Hawk series. That is, 90 degrees to what one would expect.

 

We wrote up a report indicating that the brushes were installed incorrectly and sent it off to our QC group in Japan.

 

We got a response from the printer manufacturer that the brushes were installed that way on purpose and included a multi-page report explaining why this was better and more efficient. After some back and forth and testing by the manufacturer, they agreed the theory was wrong.

 

It sounds like somebody got a copy of the original white paper on the theory of rotating the brushes 90 degrees.

 

Please don't ask what the theory was, this was more than 30 years ago. But as soon as we installed new motors into the printers, the intermittent start problems went away.

 

Now I know we are not having start problems, but I just wanted to let everyone know that the manufacturer is not screwing up, they are following an engineering requirement.


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#68 Jason Holmes

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 04:17 PM

Tim,

You tell me. I just look and buy. Are there 12 to a case or six; you did not say. If only six, man, I got a great deal. May buy some more then.

I think I got way lucky. They now want $18.27 each or $68 a case. I paid $4.77 each, nice for me.
 
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#69 Tim Neja

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 09:03 PM

Yeah, I've been watching and the prices change a bit every now and then. The case price for 12 is $68.00 and I can get free shipping. That gets it down to $5.66/can. Maybe if someone at BPR wants to go in on it with me I'd order the case.
She's real fine, my 409!!!

#70 Jason Holmes

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 10:22 PM

Well, it is going to get here tomorrow will see if it is what I wanted.
 
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#71 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 05:56 AM

I can prob get you guys cases of this stuff cheap. I'll let you all know this afternoon.
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#72 Brian Cochrane

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 07:11 AM

I just wanted to give a shout out to Matt  for his input on this topic... I tried his motor break-in method with Simple Green and it worked very well. It speeded up the whole brush break-in time and kept everything nice and clean. Be sure you rinse the motor out well to remove all debris and dry it well before you run it...

 

Matt didn't have to share this with us all but he did and that shows what a class act he is...Thank you.


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#73 tonyp

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 07:15 AM

Just be careful it's easy to wear the brushes completely out. Don't ask me how I know. LOL.


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#74 zipper

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 11:18 AM

I did an experiment on water break-in. I ran an open motor with higher RPM so the water turned to milky. The brushed were kaput in 30 seconds! I wondered a little what was happening. Then I came to the conclusion it was caused by cavitation in the water. The tiny bubbles formed do explode/implode and hammer the brushes into smithereens.


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#75 JerseyJohn

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 03:03 PM

Just got four cans of CRC 5103 from Amazon for $19 with Prime. Works the same as Pure.

 

All I use, Jason... great price.


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