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Fourth hole for the the JK Hawk Retro


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#1 Jay Guard

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 10:29 PM

Would any one else that runs IRRA Retro like to see a forth hole being allowed in the can end of the JK Hawk Retro?  With this simple racer modification it would/should allow us to remove and replace the motor without taking the rear axle assembly out of the car.  I realize that this may require a major investment on behalf of the JK and I'm really not talking about that (even though it would be great).  However it would be very easy for any retro rear to simply drill a forth hole in the can end of the Hawk Retro and then an additional hole in the motor bracket with simple tools that any racer should have on hand.

 

This seems like a simple and straightforward thing that the IRRA BoD could incorporate into the ruleset.  Any comments?


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#2 slotcarone

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 11:00 PM

Jay are you talking about using thetop hole and adding one on the bottom. There are no holes in the brackets and they are usually too short for the top hole. Also there would be no side to side support and I think the gears would strip. Would make things a lot easier though!!


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#3 MSwiss

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 11:23 PM

Zero chance, Jay.

It was brought up to the BOD privately and shot down.

It would be an invitation for racers to lighten up their motors.

You would have a big 4th hole, not being used.

"I screwed up drilling it. You can't expect me to eat the motor because you guys changed the rules".

And like Mike K. said, there aren't any popular brackets(that I recall, anyway) that have room for that top screw.

For sure, none of the 18 brackets on the 6 podiums, at R4, can accept a top screw (14 of mine and 4 JK)

PS- in some other discussion on this subject, maybe on FB, one top racer says he can change motors with the 3 and 9 o'clock holes, using a ball end wrench.

I also sell Phillip's head, 2MM screws, that would also probably work.
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#4 usadar

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 04:45 AM

I am using a ball-end flex .050 wrench/driver to replace Retro Hawks without disassembling the rear axle assembly, with the motors mounted through the traditional two holes.

Haruki


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#5 MSwiss

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 05:22 AM

Thanks, Haruki.

Is a "flex" wrench something special/different?

If so, a pic would be great.

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#6 Bill from NH

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 05:46 AM

What the purpose of the top hole anyway? Is it something used in manufacturing the cans?


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#7 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 08:15 AM

In a flexi car the top hole is actually the bottom hole. JK sells an RTR flexi slot car (I think its the X21 chassis) using the bottom hole and one side hole to attach the motor to the sidewinder style motor bracket. The motor is attached to the motor bracket by the use of the same screws we use in retro racing.


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#8 MSwiss

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 08:44 AM

The top (or bottom) hole came way before the Cheetah 21.

 

My guess, since it's not tapped, it might be, to interface, with a locating pin, in some industrial application.


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#9 Jay Guard

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 01:01 PM

Mike:  See responses below...

 

Zero chance, Jay.

It was brought up to the BOD privately and shot down.

Yeah I know, very short sighted in my opinion, or maybe it was just the Not-Invented-Here thing.  And please don't hand me the "rules stability" line, this is a super easy racer made mod that anybody can do in about 5 minutes.

 

It would be an invitation for racers to lighten up their motors.

Yep, maybe a whole .001 gram for a new hole required to be around .060" max, are you serious!

You would have a big 4th hole, not being used.

Not if the BoD specified a hole no bigger than say .060".  Even an SCM wouldn't risk getting caught, and banned, with an easily detected mod like an oversized hole.

 

"I screwed up drilling it. You can't expect me to eat the motor because you guys changed the rules".

That would be the racers fault not the BoD, just because it was legal nobody is forcing a racer to make this mod, again get serious!

And like Mike K. said, there aren't any popular brackets(that I recall, anyway) that have room for that top screw.

At the moment that might be true, but through the wonders of CNC machining I have a feeling that this could be corrected by a cleaver bracket manufacturer in short order, might even help his sales!

 

For sure, none of the 18 brackets on the 6 podiums, at R4, can accept a top screw (14 of mine and 4 JK)

That might be true of the R4 cars but why am I sitting here looking a my R4 Can-Am car with what appears to be a four-hole Versa bracket?  If you check out your own post #37 in the "Chicagoland Raceway Versa Bracket" thread of 6 Aug. 2013 you will see a picture of the four hole bracket that YOU produced.

PS- in some other discussion on this subject, maybe on FB, one top racer says he can change motors with the 3 and 9 o'clock holes, using a ball end wrench.

Yep, been there tried that.  Maybe the three or four ball drivers I tried weren't high enough quality but they all stripped out after just a few screws and I never felt the screws were really tight enough. 

I also sell Phillip's head, 2MM screws, that would also probably work.

Might work, but I suspect that the angle would still too great for a tiny Phillips to work when you have to get around a large Parma gear hub.


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#10 tonyp

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 01:22 PM

You could test motors using the top hole and one side hole. With no problem.

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#11 Bill from NH

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 02:21 PM

The Plafit Cheetahs I ran 15 or more years ago had the mysterious third hole too. These FK motors were supposedly from the automotive industry. We would solder them into flexi & scratchbuilt inline chassis back then.

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#12 Cheater

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 06:06 PM

Enough already!!

I can't believe some posters have such emotional investment in this trivial issue.

When 'FU's start being posted, things are spiraling out of control and for no significant reason IMO.

I've cleaned this thread up and click goes the lock.

Sitting home feeling perfectly miserable with the worst cold I've had in ten years and dealing with disturbing family issues that caused me to consult today with a paid professional therapist for advice on how to deal with the situation.

Hard for me to get real spun up about this issue, as a few posters have done here today, regarding a friggin' fourth hole in a motor can. YMMV, but I sincerely wonder why such a minor issue is so important to so many. In the greater scheme of life, just how critical is this question? In my life, not much. If it is in yours, my opinion is that perhaps you need to ask yourself just why that is the case.

As poorly I feel today, best not to berate me privately for this moderation action. Simply not in the mood to hear it...


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