Jump to content




Photo

Retro anglewinders


  • Please log in to reply
115 replies to this topic

#1 YetiSRP

YetiSRP

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 230 posts
  • Joined: 28-November 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:OH

Posted 25 March 2017 - 01:40 PM

Why do you think this isn't a more popular class?


Jim Bandes




#2 Bill from NH

Bill from NH

    Age scrubs away speed!

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,984 posts
  • Joined: 02-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Boston, NH

Posted 25 March 2017 - 02:01 PM

Because you don't have to use a sealed motor like most everybody has become use to.


Bill Fernald
 

How old should a highway be before you tell it, that it has been adopted?


#3 Tom Thumb Hobbies

Tom Thumb Hobbies

    Posting Leader

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,173 posts
  • Joined: 16-October 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Planet Earth

Posted 25 March 2017 - 02:14 PM

I think Jim is referring to Retro Anglewinder as run in the ORS. Not sure about the answer to your question except it is currently getting twice as many entries as before. When we first started the class we used motors much too fast for most racers. Attrition was near 80%.

Now with the sealed 4002-FK motor more cars are finishing and entires are going up. Hopefully the trend continues...
  • MSwiss, Jason Holmes and Lee Palmer like this

Mike McMasters
TTlogo300.jpg
460 Wilson Rd
Columbus, OH 43204
(614) 274-5150
Home of the ORIGINAL American blue King


#4 Steve Deiters

Steve Deiters

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,918 posts
  • Joined: 28-May 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cincinnati, OH

Posted 25 March 2017 - 02:14 PM

Jim,

 

At this stage of the game it is competing with three other established inline classes-Can-Am, F1, & GT.  "Flintlock" chassis designs that seem to get faster every year.  Not sure how "anglewinder" didn't fall into the original "Retro" concept, but I digress...

 

As to the motor that was referenced in the previous post I think the IRRA® could help by switching the motor for the class to the Retro Hawk may help the anglewinder class. That way potential racers would only need to have one motor "program."

 

SD



#5 tonyp

tonyp

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,903 posts
  • Joined: 12-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sanford, FL, land of lizards and big roaches

Posted 25 March 2017 - 02:27 PM

I think most people find the chassis harder to build. The cars have no weight limit and handle better than a Retro and much less weight so crashes are usually major destruction.

 

Add to that another motor program is needed.


  • Half Fast likes this

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
Retro East co-founder
American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
Arco Champion
Car Model Magazine Series Amateur Champion
2016 ORS Anglewinder Constructors Championsh
ip


#6 YetiSRP

YetiSRP

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 230 posts
  • Joined: 28-November 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:OH

Posted 25 March 2017 - 02:33 PM

Already some interesting replies here...

 

I wish Bill had expanded on his comment as it can be read as either 1) it's just convenient or 2) racers have gotten somewhat lazier. Incorporating the other two comments, racers would rather buy 5-10-15+ motors, have to break them all in, put them in cars and run them hard than get a motor, open it up, tweak it and run the crap out of it?

 

I mean, as Mike would know, having been around on the scene even longer than me, you used to put a frame together, usually get a Mura can and your choice of 'dot' magnets and stick in a Pooch or Steube arm and have it. With your 25, 24 or double 27 winds, attrition was relatively low. Why is attrition becoming an issue now. Cheap/low quality?

 

I'm not trying to be 'flip' or create controversy. Just seriously wondering.


Jim Bandes

#7 tonyp

tonyp

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,903 posts
  • Joined: 12-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sanford, FL, land of lizards and big roaches

Posted 25 March 2017 - 02:35 PM

Most attrition on a King is cars getting destroyed.


"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
Retro East co-founder
American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
Arco Champion
Car Model Magazine Series Amateur Champion
2016 ORS Anglewinder Constructors Championsh
ip


#8 tonyp

tonyp

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,903 posts
  • Joined: 12-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sanford, FL, land of lizards and big roaches

Posted 25 March 2017 - 02:38 PM

And gears.


"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
Retro East co-founder
American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
Arco Champion
Car Model Magazine Series Amateur Champion
2016 ORS Anglewinder Constructors Championsh
ip


#9 mjsh

mjsh

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 276 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pine Mountain, GA

Posted 25 March 2017 - 02:42 PM

Questionable rules. Survivor cars from this era would be not legal under revisionist rules.

1) Front axle- most cars of this era were diamonds or Ls, not straight. Why not allow any to help creativity, ease in body mounting?
2) Limited body choice.
3) Motors - what is it this week? I like the legal motor to be fast enough that cheating isn't worth the trouble. So a mini-can with a 12 arm?
4) Stamped steel frames are so good now, hard for relative newcomers to justify.
 
Just my opinion. I'd love to race the mid-'70s style cars.
Michael Shepard

#10 JimF

JimF

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,974 posts
  • Joined: 20-June 07
  • Gender:Male

Posted 25 March 2017 - 03:26 PM

Less than $0.02 worth but...
 
In NorCal, we have been running anglewinder coupes as a bi-monthly class for near 10 years. We get in a race every other month as planned but they average the lowest turn-out of any class we do except 1/32. We probably run too fast a motor (built Big Dog) in a car with less downfor e than a Can-Am. We also run on banked tracks that would be considered "flat or slow" in most areas. The speeds are impressive but the attrition rates are high.
 
As in many aspects of the hobby, the faster the cars are, the smaller the pool of capable drivers and mechanics.
  • Cheater, tonyp and Tom Eatherly like this
Jim Fowler

#11 Cap Henry

Cap Henry

    CHR Cars

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,697 posts
  • Joined: 25-October 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bellevue, OH

Posted 25 March 2017 - 03:29 PM

Anglewinder/RetroOro with the X12/BD motors are IMO too fast and hard to drive for most. ORS did a good thing with the PSFK to slow them down and it's getting more popular
  • S.O. Watt, JimF, TG Racing and 2 others like this

Team PSC
Parma PSE
CHR Cars
JDR-Joe Dirt Racing


#12 Richard G With

Richard G With

    Outside Agitator

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 169 posts
  • Joined: 28-August 15
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wichita, KS

Posted 25 March 2017 - 03:30 PM

I run the anglewinder as one of the classes at Dallas Slot Cars. It's RETRO rules there so we have the Big Dog motor only. Dallas has been seeing an increase in the number of entries, and it's my favorite at the moment.
 
The attraction for me is that it's closer to a true scratchbuilt car like we had in the '60s and '70s.

That's also probably why it's not as widely run, there may be fewer racers who prefer to build their own cars, as compared to the other classes. I like to build them, but have been racing cars built by my buddy Alan Dodson. We had alot of success at Dallas in November and his chassis are having more success since then.
 
There is only so much innovation possible in the inline configuration; anglewinder seems to allow more creativity.
 
I enjoy both inline and anglewinder and think the RETRO rules for anglewinder are preferable to the IRRA® approach due to the light weight and more powerful motors.


We must all do what we must do, for if we do not, then what we must do does not get done.  Chung Mee

      Parkes, W. (Producer) & Meyer, N. (Director). (1985). Volunteers.[Motion picture]. United States: HBO.

 


#13 YetiSRP

YetiSRP

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 230 posts
  • Joined: 28-November 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:OH

Posted 25 March 2017 - 03:31 PM

Wow. OK. Thanks.

 

Not for a heartbeat did I consider the cars getting the snot beat out of them!


Jim Bandes

#14 Richard G With

Richard G With

    Outside Agitator

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 169 posts
  • Joined: 28-August 15
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wichita, KS

Posted 25 March 2017 - 03:57 PM

Attrition in anglewinder at DSC doesn't seem to be all that high.

 

The Big Dog arms are higher quality and I don't think the motors let the smoke out very often. And they don't exhibit the push start problem that often claims a good PSFK motor.

 

The lighter weight may translate to more fragile cars, but for the most part attrition on the DSC flat track is more due to the usual nuts and bolts things that happen in all classes. King track crashes are of course more violent, maybe the Can-Am cars are less vulnerable. But surely F1 cars are more fragile and that seems to be a well-represented class.

 

I'd also ask why Can-Am Plus isn't more widely run.


We must all do what we must do, for if we do not, then what we must do does not get done.  Chung Mee

      Parkes, W. (Producer) & Meyer, N. (Director). (1985). Volunteers.[Motion picture]. United States: HBO.

 


#15 S.O. Watt

S.O. Watt

    Graduate Bench Racer

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,091 posts
  • Joined: 24-June 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Seattle, WA

Posted 25 March 2017 - 06:09 PM

The SCRRA/D3 RetroCcoupe class cars are very fun on flat tracks. They are an anglewinder that uses a Retro Hawk/TSR/Falcon. They differ from a RetroPro in there is no motor program, pretty much the same coupe bodies that IRRA® allows. Same tyre sizes as IRRA® Can-Am/Coupe, same front axle requirement, etc.


  • Tim Neja, Jason Holmes, Tom Eatherly and 1 other like this

Tom Hansen
Our Gang Racing Team
Cukras Enterprises

Team Camen

Chassis By Hansen

I race and shop at Pacific Slot Car Raceway


#16 DOCinCocoa

DOCinCocoa

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,407 posts
  • Joined: 22-June 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mims, FL

Posted 25 March 2017 - 06:12 PM

Back in the late '60s when we ran anglewinders with straight front axles, the car weight was about 5.5 ounces or 150 to 160 grams. So actually, compared to todays inline Retro cars, we are running lightweights today, 105 grams.


Doc Dougherty
GRRR 2016 GT Coupe and Stock Car Champion and Overall Champion
My Series Spring 2016 4" NASCAR, JK LMP State Champion, and Endurance State Champion
My Series 2015 4" NASCAR, GTP and Endurance State Champion
​GRRR 2015 4 1/2" and F1 Champion
​GRRR 2013 & 2014 Evil Flexi Champion
1968 Cleveland Car Model Series race winner - Tom Thumb Raceway, North Royalton, Ohio
​1968 Hinsdale ARCO Amateur runner-up
1967 Parma Raceway Indy 500 Champion

#17 YetiSRP

YetiSRP

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 230 posts
  • Joined: 28-November 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:OH

Posted 25 March 2017 - 09:14 PM

And then came the days of;

 

Stick-it

Limpach Lotion

Beautox

etc…


  • elvis44102 likes this
Jim Bandes

#18 Tom Eatherly

Tom Eatherly

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,799 posts
  • Joined: 28-October 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SoCal

Posted 25 March 2017 - 10:10 PM

Not a chassis builder, but, a few of the guys at BPR have stated that the AWs are a bit more difficult to build The two races we have at BPR running the AW coupes is a lot of fun. Everyone really likes them, but, alas, only two races.

 

So, we take what we can and enjoy them. 


Tom Eatherly

#19 Mark Wampler

Mark Wampler

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,007 posts
  • Joined: 17-July 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Santa Maria, CA

Posted 25 March 2017 - 10:37 PM

The SoCal Retro Coupes only run twice a year, so it makes it a special time. That way, the class doesn't get worn out. Participation is excellent. 

 

/32 and Stock Cars didn't survive from the original D3 line-up.


  • Tim Neja likes this
You can quote me.

-Mark

#20 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,591 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 25 March 2017 - 11:28 PM

If you went with mandatory 48 pitch gears, reliability would go up immensely.
  • Cheater, tonyp and Samiam like this

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#21 Bill from NH

Bill from NH

    Age scrubs away speed!

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,984 posts
  • Joined: 02-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Boston, NH

Posted 26 March 2017 - 06:33 AM

Does anyone sell 48 pitch spur gears with a 3/32" bore? Parma once had a few, but I don't know if they still do.


Bill Fernald
 

How old should a highway be before you tell it, that it has been adopted?


#22 Samiam

Samiam

    Posting Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,660 posts
  • Joined: 18-January 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Long Island, NY

Posted 26 March 2017 - 08:40 AM

I never tried it on anything other than Parma crown gears but would their reducer bushing work OK on a spur?


Sam Levitch
 
"If you have integrity, nothing else matters, and if you do not have integrity, nothing else matters."
     Robert Mueller, special counsel (2013)

#23 YetiSRP

YetiSRP

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 230 posts
  • Joined: 28-November 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:OH

Posted 26 March 2017 - 10:56 AM

Ok, can someone supply me with a link to the prevailing Retro Anglewinder rules?

 

Assuming that Parma is the only one that sells 48 pitch spurs and using a reducer to 3/32" axle (glued in?) and that the motor use is the 4002FK (I thought I read/heard the Big/Puppy Dog line is coming to an end), I'll scare up a body and put one together to those specs and see what happens.

 

Should really do two of them with one being a 64 pitch for comparison, everything else being equal.

 

No results until probably May. Hip surgery Wednesday and heard Haven in Elyria installing the Parma Hillclimb next month.


Jim Bandes

#24 The Number of

The Number of

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,495 posts
  • Joined: 29-February 08
  • Gender:Male

Posted 26 March 2017 - 11:09 AM

Where did this 48p idea come from? I have used 64 and 72p since the start of ORS and never lost a gear. How is 48p better?
  • S.O. Watt likes this
Bill Fulmer

The lack of any credible evidence is proof the conspiracy is working!

#25 Richard G With

Richard G With

    Outside Agitator

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 169 posts
  • Joined: 28-August 15
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wichita, KS

Posted 26 March 2017 - 12:30 PM

Yeti,

 

The RETRO rules are under the "Other Classes" http://www.retroslot...er---flexi.html

The body list is at http://www.retroslot...-body-list.html

 

RETRO rules for this class are very different than IRRA®, and I have no idea about the other organizations.

 

RETRO does use the Big Dog motors and mandates ceramic magnets, but use of the neo magnets may be under discussion.


We must all do what we must do, for if we do not, then what we must do does not get done.  Chung Mee

      Parkes, W. (Producer) & Meyer, N. (Director). (1985). Volunteers.[Motion picture]. United States: HBO.

 






Electric Dreams Online Shop