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Screws on Alpha medium Wonder tires not grabbing axle


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#1 Race O' Rama

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 05:34 PM

I have had problems recently with the Alpha medium Wonder tire screws not cinching down on axles tight enough.

Has anyone else have this problem? How can this be solved? I have run the screws all the way down to clean out any extra metal or any non-threaded part and still have a problem. I have broken many tips off from my tire wrench and am very frustrated with this issue.




#2 Cheater

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 05:37 PM

Karl,

Have you tried contacting Paul Pfeiffer about the problem?
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#3 mgerbetz

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 05:37 PM

Rubber stuck in the allen screw?

Mikey
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#4 Steve Deiters

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 05:42 PM

I always pull out the set screws and dig out the socket with and X-Acto pointed tip to remove rubber, glue. etc. It comes out very easily. This debris in the set screw is found more often than not. 
 
If the set screws are hollow, get rid of them and use "standard" set screws.
 
I also "chase" the threads in the wheel with tap while the set screws are out.
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#5 Tim Wilkins

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 06:14 PM

Lost two Alpha medium Wonders in separate races this past Saturday. I think the stock Alpha set screws are fine unless you take a few big hits. They may become loose and slightly stripped at that point.  

Corrected:  A lot of racers like the set screws manufactured by McMaster-Carr.

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#6 swodem

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 07:08 PM

Lost two Alpha medium Wonders in separate races this past Saturday. I think the stock Alpha set screws are fine unless you take a few big hits. They may become loose and slightly stripped at that point.  

A lot of racers like the set screws manufactured by McMasters-Carr.

 
The link you sent was to a 5-40 set screw

Was that intentional? I have always believed we used a 4-40...

#7 swodem

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 07:12 PM

I have had problems recently with the Alpha medium Wonder tire screws not cinching down on axles tight enough.

Has anyone else have this problem? How can this be solved? I have run the screws all the way down to clean out any extra metal or any non-threaded part and still have a problem. I have broken many tips off from my tire wrench and am very frustrated with this issue.

 
Definitely sounds stripped from your description.

When the wheel is off the axle, the set screw will behave normally and travel right through like normal, using the remaining thread not stripped due to the beveled tip that doesn't engage in any thread when the axle is in place.
It's a real bummer, especially when you discover this when putting fresh donuts on the tyre truer for turning down - grrrr, all that work!!!

It's a piss off I agree.

Breaking the tips off your hex key? Maybe your doing them up too tight?

#8 boxerdog

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 08:41 PM

Get American and/or knurled set screws:
 
Set Screws


David Cummerow

#9 Samiam

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 09:16 PM

Make sure the axle and wheel hub bore are clean and oil-free. It is not the grip of the screw on the axle that holds the wheel, it's the friction of the rest of the bore against the axle. Try roughing up the end of the axle with some medium Scotchbrite. A highly-polished axle may be too smooth.


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#10 Howie Ursaner

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 09:53 AM

i always take out the set screws from alpha wheels and throw them away and put in the ones i like from mcmaster carr


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#11 Noose

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 10:06 AM

I do what Howie does on all my tires and gears too.


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#12 Half Fast

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 10:13 AM

Also if you are breaking wrench tips, you are way over tightening it and will strip the threads on the wheel.

 

Cheers


Bill Botjer

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#13 Half Fast

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 10:15 AM

While we are on the subject of screws...

What is the thread destination for the screws that attach at the end of the Hawk Retro motor.
 
Thanks in advance.

Bill Botjer

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#14 Upfront slot cars

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 10:19 AM

What set screws do you guys use from McMaster?
Andrew Ford

#15 Noose

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 10:34 AM

91375A103p1-b01-digitall@100p_6361129922


Alloy Steel Cup-Point Set Screw
Black Oxide, 4-40 Thread, 1/8" Long
91375A103

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#16 Bill from NH

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 10:36 AM

What is the thread destination for the screws that attach at the end of the Hawk Retro motor.

 
M2 x 3mm long, but some racers use 2-56.
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#17 Hermit #1

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 11:06 AM

What set screws do you guys use from McMaster?


They're a little pricey, but the SPS-Unbrako Knurled Cup Point set screws have served me well since the early 1970's. MSC has them listed here: 

Unbrako Knurled Cup Point Set Screws.

The material used is about the best on the market – the hex socket almost never strips out. The knurled point resists loosening, and seems to hold better than a regular cup point.

McMaster-Carr only lists a generic version of this set screw - I can't speak for its quality.

Cheers!
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#18 stevphens

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 11:08 AM

How much is shipping for 100 set screws from Mcmaster-Carr? When ordering, they say, "Applicable shipping charges and tax will be added," but they don't say how much. MSC Industrial charges $11.60.
Rick Stevens

#19 Noose

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 11:17 AM

How much is shipping for 100 set screws from Mcmaster Carr?


Depends on what else you order. They usually ship UPS. If you are close then it is cheaper.

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#20 stevphens

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 11:44 AM

Thanks, Noose!

I just contacted McMaster-Carr, and the shipping estimate for 100 set screws alone is: $6.00.
Rick Stevens

#21 JerseyJohn

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 11:53 AM

Noose as always is dead on... The McMaster 4/40 holds well. FYI you might want to invest in a 4-40 tap to clean out the treads and hole.

i mount my own rubber and use mostly used rims. Running the tap through keeps me from having to toss a new mount because the threads are messed up.  

 

Regards from the Dungeon,

 

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#22 ejgehrken

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 12:00 PM

Has anyone ever checked the 4-40 threads with a "Go/No-Go" gage?


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#23 Hermit #1

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 12:40 PM

Has anyone ever checked the 4-40 threads with a "Go/No-Go" gage?

 

I used to do it all the time at work (aircraft machine shop). But you'll pay through the nose to buy one - Mcmaster-Carr wants $109.69 for a suitable one


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#24 Ramcatlarry

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 12:44 PM

Hollow set screws for flats only, cup point on round shafts.


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#25 Hermit #1

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 12:47 PM

MSC is a little cheaper on the Go-No Go gage.


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#26 jimht

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 03:15 PM

It's somewhat counterintuitive but a little oil on the screw threads tightens things up...


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#27 Benno - SAC

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 04:33 PM

Hollow set screws for flats only, cup point on round shafts.


Why?

I use (Czech) hollow screws on round axles only. Never had problems.


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#28 The Number of

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 05:48 PM

Has anyone ever checked the 4-40 threads with a "Go/No-Go" gage?

 
You buy one and send it to me I will be glad to try it out. :D
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#29 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 10:22 PM

You guys are missing the most important thing. If the axle or hub is oily nothing will work great. Remove all oil before tightening using some sort of spray like pure or the like and you will be more successful.
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#30 Howie Ursaner

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Posted 01 April 2017 - 09:39 AM

I never use hollow set screws for Retro, or anything else. The wrench is stripping from the set screw, not from overtightening. 


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#31 S.O. Watt

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Posted 01 April 2017 - 09:52 AM

Set Screws made of Stainless Steel are softer than hardened steel set screws. This means the point of the set screw will deform allowing the wheel/gear to come loose. It also contributes to the hex inside the set screw to deform.

Just my experiences over the years, I don't use SS set screws.


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#32 Steve Deiters

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Posted 01 April 2017 - 10:00 AM

As to the counterintuitive "oil on the set screw observation". I put a drop of oil on them so that it minimizes the potential of a false "tight" feel  when tightening the set screw.


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#33 Overdrive

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Posted 01 April 2017 - 10:59 AM

I went to flatted axles as soon as they were thought of and never used anything since. This allows you to use a lot less torque on the screw yet I've hardly ever stripped, spun, or lost a tire since then. But most importantly it allows you to use hollow set screws which improves the balance of the rotating rear end assembly. Which helps handling in a short radius gutter turn. All the fast G7 guys balance their rear end components. They wouldn't bother if it didn't help.

 

If you use flats, the Alpha set screw is more than adequate.

 

Hope this helps.

 

OverDrive


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#34 Upfront slot cars

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Posted 01 April 2017 - 09:24 PM

Thanks, Noose and Hermit!
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#35 Robert BG

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 01:39 PM

I went to flatted axles as soon as they were thought of and never used anything since. This allows you to use a lot less torque on the screw yet I've hardly ever stripped, spun, or lost a tire since then. But most importantly it allows you to use hollow set screws which improves the balance of the rotating rear end assembly. Which helps handling in a short radius gutter turn. All the fast G7 guys balance their rear end components. They wouldn't bother if it didn't help.

 

If you use flats, the Alpha set screw is more than adequate.

 

Hope this helps.

 

OverDrive

 

I use flats on just about everything and it really is the best way to do it in my opinion.Not only does it eliminate loose wheels it stops stripped threads and reduces the amount of hubs that go in the trash.

 

Another option that I really dont see anymore is dual threaded hubs.It's been years but I recall the PSE pink gears used to have 2 threaded holes.I've also drilled and tapped extra holes if needed but since switching to axles with flats I only break out the taps if I'm trying to stretch a buck anymore ;)


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#36 zipper

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 03:29 PM

I do collect the busted thread gears and tires. Another hole to the opposite side, 2 mm, then I make a new thread with my self made tap (copied from a factory made tool), a 4-40 screw with cuts and soldered to a wrench. Cheap!


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#37 Fast Freddie

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 06:43 PM

Karl, I don't see where you say what Alpha hub you are using.  If it's a standard width hub then it could be a bad set screw, but if it's the full width hub then it may be your set screw wrench not making full contact with the set screw.  Most set screw wrenches have a ridge that is slightly larger in diameter then the set screw hole.  That's because most set screw wrenches are made out of round stock with a milled hexagon tip.  I noticed that this can sometimes prevent the wrench from fully tightening the set screw.  What I did was grind that ridge into a tapered bevel and it cured the problem.


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