74 replies to this topic

[Vay Jonynas]

I always regard a wing on a slot car as a negative. Quite simply I know the thing will break off at some point and then it will be a pain in the butt to glue back on to the car.

Secondly, it seems that the existence of the wing makes the application of a traction compound onto the tires almost essential. But many/most track owners hate the resultant gook on their tracks.

So what's with wing cars? Why are they so popular with many racers?

[Cheater]

Vay,

You might need to clarify your question a bit.

The term "wing car" in 1/24 racing refers to slot cars that utilize Lexan side dams and a rear wing to provide downforce to keep those very fast cars on the track.

Your use of the "wing car" term seems primarily to be referring to 1/32 hardbody slot cars carrying hard plastic rear wings in replication of the wings used on the 1:1 vehicles, or so one would assume from your comment about a wing "break[ing] off at some point and then it will be a pain in the butt to glue back on to the car."

If I am correct in my assumption that you are refering to 1/32 slot cars with hard plastic wings, then my reply would be that the "modeling" aspect of 1/32 cars is of central importance to enthusiasts who buy such cars and since the 1:1 cars feature them, so do their 1/32 replicas.

[MG Brown]

This is a 1/24 scale "wing car":



They are very fast - si!

It is an almost indescribable rush to be on the track with seven more of them... which is why the SCMs among us like them. Perhaps it can be likened to motorcycle drag racing!!!???

Please let's not get into the whole glue discussion and what is the definition of "driving". It is my feeling that wing car races are won strategically and by situational awareness; I will say that.

(I included the picture because men are visual creatures - which is why Mr. Hefner does not publish a magazine DESCRIBING hot women.)

[Zippity]

Maybe this is what was meant.

[Mark Wampler]

Uh, popular if you have the budget

[TSR]

Popular with maybe a total of 300 racers worldwide?

[tonyp]

My friend Rob calls it a "science experiment" It is basically a science project to see how fast a projectile can be made to travel a fixed track." Guys like it because it is so fast.

Whatever form of racing makes you happy is OK by me. It is all slot car racing of some form or another.

I kind of remember some French guy who was pretty good at running the grandfather of these cars before they mutated into what they look like now. I blame it all on him.

[Vay Jonynas]

Cheater:

The term "wing car" in 1/24 racing refers to slot cars that utilize Lexan side dams and a rear wing to provide downforce to keep those very fast cars on the track.

I was talking about the 1/24 scale Lexans as well as the 1/32 scale plasticars with wings. Aren't the wings the first part of a Lexan body that get battered into submission?

[MG Brown]

It takes several repeated wrecks in the same general area to seriously damage the air control on a modern wing car - if it was set up properly to begin with.

Repairs to wing cars are never made with glue - packing tape is the usual solution for in-race repairs.

[Phil Smith]

Many of us used to race them, so just because most of us don't care for them now doesn't make them bad. At one time, we liked them, right? So they have to have some appealing qualities. The rush that MG mentioned is certainly one of them.

I no longer race them for a variety of reasons, but the main one is I just can't keep up with them anymore. They're just too fast for my aging eyes and reflexes.

[RomanK]

Popular with maybe a total of 300 racers worldwide?

So if your estimate is even close to being correct, I suspect that would be about three or four times the number of D3 racers in the world

What's the beef, P, if it's 300 so be it, that's 300 more racers to help support our hobby and at the spending level of most wing racers, a 2 or 3 to 1 ratio probably would not be that far-fetched.

Lighten up, they're all toy cars, to each their own.

[RomanK]

So what's with wing cars? Why are they so popular with many racers?

Todays wing cars (Lexan type) are extremely durable due in part to their light weight. Although they do deslot, the lack of mass often keeps the damage to a minimum. The Lexan bodies and wings take much abuse and are often used as a raceway's rental car fleet because of that.

So far as the attraction? Sheer speed is one, unimaginable handling is another, and it still takes skill in driving and building much like all other forms of slot racing. In the case of wing cars, the differences between a competitive and non-competitive car are often measured in thousandths of a second rather than tenths or even full seconds.

It's all about picking the poison that tastes the best. They are all toy cars and they are all fun to play with.

[tonyp]

Phil, I saw one of our Retro racers run his GP27 car on Sonny's King track and I could not follow it at all. Way too fast!

The last time I ran an open class car was on BIR's American King (the fastest standard King at that time) I turned a 2.98. Actually that was the last time I raced a slot car until last year.

Harry could run 2.0 at Sonny's holding it wide open because he said the motor was slow and the car was very tired. LOL.

[RomanK]

Uh, popular if you have the budget

Only expensive if you want it to be. The Mid-Atlantic along with other USRA regions have a Gp-12 restricted class that stipulates only one motor can be used, a specified (conservative) gear ratio, and spray glue, meaning racers do not glue but a light spray is applied to the track before racing starts.

We have had really good success with this class and most say it is an inexpensive, low-hassle way to enjoy wing car racing. Add to that, the rules are fairly simple, teching is easy and fast, and we rarely have the types of rules discussions and disagreements that some of the other types of racing are having. That in itself goes a long way in preserving the "fun" factor.

[tonyp]

Sounds like a very sensible class.

[Phil Smith]

The last time I ran an open class car was on BIR's American King (the fastest std. king at that time) I turned a 2.98. Actually the last time I raced a slot car until last year.

Tony,

What year would that have been? I ask because I believe that's an example of why I think wing cars are not more popular than they are.

When I raced 27s in the mid-'80s, we were turning 2.7-2.9 on a mostly flat but good King track. When I raced box stock in the early 2Ks on a almost completely flat but good Kingleman, we were running 2.9-3.1. Now what do boxstocks turn on a fast, swoopy King? 2.4s, 2.2s? Faster than that?

The cars have gotten a LOT faster. Us older guys might not race them again under any circumstances, but this extra speed has probably prevented a lot of younger guys from getting involved. The cars are just too fast for most people to handle - at any age.

How many more people would be involved in wing cars if they were slower? I would think probably a lot more.

[Phil Smith]

I just thought of this: When I started racing Intl 15s in the early '80s, a really, really fast car was 3.7-3.9. Most racers could not break 4.0. Locally, it was by far the most popular class.

And I think that was because it was a speed most people could handle. Nowadays that's not the case. Can you imagine a newbie walking into a track for the first time and seeing a 2.0 second car making laps? I should say try to see, because I'm sure they couldn't. Maybe an occasional blur, but that's it.

Advancing technology is wing cars' worst enemy.

[Cheater]

So if your estimate is even close to being correct, I suspect that would be about three or four times the number of D3 racers in the world.

Roman,

You need to try to ignore PdL most of the time; that's what I do.

While most of your info in this thread is spot-on, if by D3 you actually meant retro racers, I believe you're underestimating the high level of interest in retro, simply because I believe almost a couple of thousand retro chassis kits have been sold so far by the folks marketing such kits.

Which suggests to me a larger number of folks running retro than you inferred.

[RomanK]

Advancing technology is wing cars worst enemy.

I'm more of the notion that it's more the amount of time required to build rather than the driving or keeping up with the car aspect. It's a given, us old guys struggle with the speed but a youngster's eyes and reflexes are very able to handle the cars.

Case in point is my grandson, he's raced a total of maybe four times yet has done well in all four races, specifically at the 2007 Nats at our place last year (second place). Anyway, although he doesn't build, he was easily able to adapt to driving the car and was able to point out things that it was doing that I could not see. This provided me the opportunity to tune the car to suit him. I attribute some of this to the reflexes youngsters develop playing today's video type games and simply being young with eyes that actually focus and limbs that respond in a timely manner.

Unfortunately, I think it's hard to expect that kids today would be willing to spend the kind of time required actually building the toy cars before playing with them. Sure, there are exceptions but very few. Back in the "Day" we all built things, models, bikes, soap box racers, tree houses, etc., etc. I suspect many of our first cars were "Fixer-Uppers"; we either fixed it or continued walking. Not so much today, lot more ready to use stuff available and I find that kids aren't into the building aspect, maybe just my personal experience.

[Fast Freddie]

Hey Watch it. I'm an old guy and I do OK in the restricted GP12 class. I also got a taste of Retro and hope to be in the race at Mimi's in June. I also hope to see those guys I met at Dom's Raceway. Just finished building my Tony P (FF) Aero II. I'll test it in May when I go to the Mid-Atlantic Championship race. Keep on Racin'.

[Prof. Fate]

Hi,

I ran air dams because that is what you needed to win in the expert classes then. I would growl and go win. Ran 2s then, got all excited the first time I did a 1.9. Not the point.

About 15 years ago, figured I had run with most, done well, was never gonna be Cukras but like racing. I tossed the wings because they were UGLY. Went back to cars I like building and looking at.

But being a typical racing jerk, I went around to the tracks in a 600 mile circle and set the outright lap record on every track I didn't already have that record.

Simply, didn't want anyone to say "you quit air dams because you were slow".

I am more mellow now.

Fate

[tonyp]

Hi Phil,

Not sure the year exactly. It would have to be right before the World Championships that were held at Elmsford, which was also the last race Ernie Provetti ran in. I pitted for him but had already stopped racing by the time of the Worlds.

I do remember right after the race at BIR I sold Gordy Root my chassis right off the track. So if Gordy is still out there he may still own the last chassis I built and sold when I did it for a living.

[tonyp]

Phil, I found it, 1984.

[TSR]

I kind of remember some French guy who was pretty good at running the grandfather of these cars before they mutated into what they look like now. I blame it all on him.

Tony,

I LOVED them then, but when they allowed the high side fences in 1973, that did it for me. I proposed a limitation of 2" maximum height and was turned down. So I quit and went away.

Today, one has to be astounded by the speed attained by modern open-class wing cars, but they have hit a technological wall now, in the same manner as the old motorcycle 500cc two-stroke class. So they moved to MotoGP and four-stroke engines, and such a move will eventually happen to the slot car racing open class if it is to survive in some form. 300 racers on a planet of 6 billion is a bit shy of a sustainable field.

By the way Roman, where did I say that I don't like them? I only commented on the number of active players, nothing else.

[tonyp]

The big air dams were stupid. They took the cars from kind of looking like race cars to things. I guess they were the point where model car racing became slot car racing. I hated mounting all the stuff on the bodies but you had to do it.