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Emott Tottenham build


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#1 Pablo

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 06:21 PM

Bill from NH gave me a copy of the Dec '69 "Model Cars" article.
Jairus built a real nice one HERE.
 
Thanks to them, this should be relatively "easy."

Parts gathering phase - found an Electric Dreams 20 thou McLaren M8A in my body stash.

Emott used a 25 wire arm, so maybe a strong body is a good thing. :)
 
IMG_5637.JPG
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#2 grooverunner

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 09:13 AM

Paul ,
 
Your a vintage slot car building machine! And a darn good one at that. :good:
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#3 SlotStox#53

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 09:40 AM

Pablo + Pro Anglewinder build + phat wire motor = :D :D

Looking forward to seeing this one come to life!

Here's the magical place Bob raced: :D

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#4 Jairus

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 11:31 AM

Most of those parts are very hard to find these days, Paul.

Good luck and I'll be watching.  :music:

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#5 Pablo

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 01:49 PM

Thanks, guys. :)
 
I don't mean to imply it will be an exact replica. Parts substitutions won't slow me down one bit. :dance3:
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#6 Pablo

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 11:34 PM

Progress on parts gathering/planning today was my decision on specs to have John Havlicek build me a 26 wire arm.
Emott used a 25 but my experience is, H arms perform at least one wire size "better" than vintage winds.
 
Obviously it will need to breathe to stay cool, so I carved some material out of a Champion endbell and Champion can.

Champion magnet shim, Mura magnets, modern Koford shunts/insulation, 36D size brush holders, etc.
 
IMG_5653.JPG


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#7 Bill from NH

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 05:47 AM

Obviously it will need to breathe to stay cool,

 
You could also have John provide you a pair of his custom-wound brush springs. :)

Bill Fernald
 

My wife says I don't pay enough attention to her, or something like that.  :unknw:


#8 Pablo

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 05:38 PM

You could also have John provide you a pair of his custom-wound brush springs. :)

 

Excellent idea, Bill. Thanks.  :good:


Paul Wolcott

#9 Pablo

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 08:16 PM

1. Open end of can placed on wet soapy sandpaper over a flat hard surface and sanded, to give a nice flush can to EB fit.

The bushing alignment shaft tool liked the new fit so much, I'm having second thoughts about installing a BB on the can.

It may not even be necessary on this particular type setup.

 

2. Champion shims cleaned and polished.

 

3. Pent roof brush holders straightened, cleaned, and polished.

 

IMG_5657.JPG

 

 

 


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#10 grooverunner

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 08:34 PM

:popcorm1:


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#11 Pablo

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 12:01 AM

Wasn't long ago, I drilled pilot holes and used self tapping screws to secure can to endbell and endbell to chassis.

Worked fine and I haven't had a single failure.

 

But I woke up and smelled the coffee. Now I'm onboard with dc-65x's method of using taps and threading my endbells.

2-56 for the EB to chassis mounting holes, and 0-80 for can to EB Champion screws.

 

The tools cost money, the methods are more work, but it's worth it to snug up a screw and know the alignment is perfect.

Every single time. :)

 

All four holes are tapped on my Emott motor. Bushing quality and alignment are perfect.

If I wasn't so confident, I'd probably put a BB on the can. But I am, and I won't. :curtsey:

 

IMG_5663.JPG

 

IMG_5680.JPG

 

Big Foot brushes are pre-radiused, spring notches enlarged for insulated shunts, marked pos/neg, and polished.


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#12 Bill from NH

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 05:11 PM

I've used 2-56 and 0-80 taps for motor building since the '70s. Some Parma 16Ds might have been the exception. I own 00-90 and 1-72 taps too, but seldom use them. A 4-40 is a good one to have for cleaning and reforming setscrew hole threads.

 

I use newsprint for polishing motor brushes. A brown paper bag from the grocery store would probably work too, but I haven't tried it. What are you using to polish brushes?


Bill Fernald
 

My wife says I don't pay enough attention to her, or something like that.  :unknw:


#13 Pablo

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 08:20 AM

Printer paper.


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#14 Cheater

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 09:17 AM

For me, back of a standard business card works well. Being cardtsock, it doesn't need to be supoorted by a flat surface as much as a paper does IMO.

 

Not sure it really matters, as most any paper without a glossy finish will be slightly abrasive to some extent.


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Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#15 Jairus

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 10:39 AM

Not to mention, cuts skin quite efficiently.


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#16 Jairus

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 09:10 PM

Meanwhile, back at the ranch...

Paul, do you have a painter for the body yet? I am doing one for a member, probably inspired by your build, and was wondering if you wanted me to shoot and letter that body of yours?

Probably ready to post a pic tomorrow so you don't have to answer right away.

I owe you, sir.


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#17 Pablo

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 12:45 PM

Meanwhile, back at the ranch.


You mean "Ranch and Petting Zoo"?
 

Paul, do you have a painter for the body yet?

 
Yes, me
 

I am doing one for a member, probably inspired by your build, and was wondering if you wanted me to shoot and letter that body of yours?


I'd love to have you letter it for me.
 

I owe you, sir.


I don't recall you owing me, but I won't argue
 
Found the perfect interior, already painted by Jairus:
 
IMG_5724.JPG


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#18 Pablo

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 03:56 PM

I don't own a controller with a choke. Do I need one for a 26 wind?


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#19 Bill from NH

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 04:32 PM

Where are you planning to run it? I never ran a choke with my 26 arm. (Nobody ran chokes in those days.) If you think you might need a choke, it'd be pretty ease to make one. Wrap some 20 or 22 gage wire on a Coke can or a length of PVC, maybe 30' of it. Every 3' or so, bring out a stub of wire to strip so you'll have something to clip onto .Put a clip on the tail end of the wire so you can hook it to a track's post.  Or, buy a Koford choke from PCH for $161. :)


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My wife says I don't pay enough attention to her, or something like that.  :unknw:


#20 Pablo

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 04:47 PM

Where are you planning to run it?


Mostly at The Dungeon, 12.5 volts. But I'll run it anywhere and everywhere it goes, unless I get a good offer to buy it.
 

I never ran a choke with my 26 arm.


Good enough for me right there, case closed, although I do appreciate the extra info. :good:
 
electric shock2.jpg
 
frankenmotor.jpg


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#21 Pablo

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 06:37 PM

Fished a pair of Champion brush holder/insulator gizmos out of my "drawer of horrors."  :)

 

IMG_5727.JPG

 

The PM endbell has nubs under the brush holders that position them correctly.

Now the gizmos take over that duty, and the nubs must be removed to allow the holders to sit flush.

Also, I tapped the brush hardware screw holes 2-56.

 

IMG_5731.JPG


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#22 Pablo

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 08:38 PM

Hoods silver soldered to holders. Wire tabs tinned with 60/40.

 

IMG_5735.JPG


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#23 Bill from NH

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 09:13 PM

Do you also solder the brush hoods and holders to the  Champion plates in post #41?

 

Or, are they just held in place by the 2-56 machine screws?


Bill Fernald
 

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#24 MSwiss

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 10:25 PM

On the subject of chokes, 26 wire probably wouldn't require it.

But than again, it matters on how much voltage you are running on.

On over 14V, on a heavily wired track, you might want one.

On low voltage, but on a short track, one might come in handy for driveability.

Regardless, only use something with a high temp, silicone jacket.

When chokes were fairly new animals, I was at a race at Andy Smith's (now Professor Motor) raceway.

Jon Laster had one cobbled together, using cheap Radio Shack, hook-up wire.

It ignited, creating so much smoke, the race was delayed for at least 5 minutes, while the doors were opened, for the smoke to clear enough, for the drivers to see.

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#25 Pablo

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 07:56 AM

Do you also solder the brush hoods & holders to the Champion plates in post #41? Or, are they just held in place by the 2-56 machine screws?

 

No, and yes. None of the Champion endbell set-ups I've seen have them soldered.


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#26 havlicek

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 08:29 AM

I've done that sometimes, Pablo, but I'm not sure it's actually a good thing to do. Increasing the heat transfer between the brush tubes and the plates could be a double-edged sword when you consider the melting point of the endbell plastic.  

 

I think what you've done here (not to mention how nicely you did it!) is probably the best way to have at it.


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#27 Pablo

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 02:38 PM

:D  I must be on the right track, then.

 

The first brush pre-radius was just to get them in the ballpark. I did a secondary radius with each brush in its specific holder, can secured to endbell.

 

In other words, exactly the way the arm is going find it.

 

IMG_5740.JPG


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#28 Bill from NH

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 04:13 PM

Alpha and others sell a knurked knob with setscrew for rotating 2mm shafts and arms.


Bill Fernald
 

My wife says I don't pay enough attention to her, or something like that.  :unknw:


#29 Pablo

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 04:41 PM

Nothing fancy here, just function, sir. My juryrig has a knurled knob, setscrews, and cost nothing.  :)

You can't see it in the photo, but there is an additional set screw hub gizmo inside against the can bushing.

 

Shunt wires are ready.

 

IMG_5742.JPG


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#30 Pablo

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 06:17 PM

Thanks to my awesome Slotblog friends who always keep me out of trouble ( :D) intel from a solid source has surfaced -

instructions on the back of Champion blister packs said to solder the post protectors and the brush holders to the insulator deck.

 

It's not too late in the game to do it, should be a piece of cake, and it will be done.  :dance3:


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#31 Bill from NH

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 07:14 PM

That's probably 50-year old advice. What will soldering them accomplish, other than "the factory said and I did"? Do you also solder Mura-style hoods to their backing plates? I never did, but that's 40-year old info. :)


Bill Fernald
 

My wife says I don't pay enough attention to her, or something like that.  :unknw:


#32 dc-65x

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 08:28 PM

I have had this problem with the plastic spring post endbells:

 

Ursaner Sports Car (120).JPG

 

I guess Champion thought soldering the spring post would keep the motor running... at least until the entire endbell melted. :shok: 

 

As they say, "that's vintage!"  :crazy:


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#33 dc-65x

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 08:41 PM

Here's a 1968 mod that was available for the Mura endbell with plastic spring posts. If it was worth the effort I don't know but it was sure fun to do :dance3: :
 
 

Here are the “hop-up” parts I’ll be using:
 
Steube%20CMRA%20Racer%2036.jpg
 
The end bell will be a Dynamic packaged Mura 1st generation “unmeltable” but with a really cool modification. Check out the Mini-Wheels Bullet Proof kit at the lower right in the picture below:
 
Steube%20CMRA%20Racer%2037.jpg
 
 
Here are the instructions for the bullet proofing kit:
 
 
 
Steube%20CMRA%20Racer%2045.jpg
 
 
Rather than build the fixture outlined in the top of the instruction sheet, I found I could use my Rick’s Jig instead:
 
Steube%20CMRA%20Racer%2043.jpg
 
Here's the jig used in a different setup to solder on the spring post protector:
 
Steube%20CMRA%20Racer%2039.jpg
 
After many hours work, the stock endbell on the right and the modified on the left:
 
Steube%20CMRA%20Racer%2031.jpg
 
 
Steube%20CMRA%20Racer%2033.jpg
 
Next up I work on my can... so to speak.  :D

 

Have fun, Pablo.  :good:


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#34 Pablo

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Posted 28 April 2017 - 05:27 PM

My decision to solder the holders to the plates is because:

 

- I have the tools for the job

 

IMG_5779.JPG

 

IMG_5778.JPG

 

- I like the idea of having the entire hardware assembly (post protectors, brush holders, and hoods) connected.

If the motor ever does get hot (but I doubt it will) it will have to spread that heat across a wide surface area to cause a failure.

 

IMG_5793.JPG

 

- Champion recommended it at the time the products were made and that's good enough for me until proven otherwise.

 

msg-5-0-01060500-1493172103.jpg

 

Yes, Bunky, I double-checked all alignments using my tools and pre-radiused the brushes (again) to accomodate any minute changes in alignment.  :D


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#35 dc-65x

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Posted 28 April 2017 - 07:03 PM

Nice, Pablo... fun stuff!  :dance3:

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#36 Bill from NH

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Posted 28 April 2017 - 07:18 PM

I've experienced arm and comm blowups before any endbell melting, that included Chinese 16Ds.  

I read Rick's Mini Wheels article and it might not be too difficult cloning the brass plates in their kits. I have a few 6mm bearing/bushing plates, but 5mm might be a better choice.

Bill Fernald
 

My wife says I don't pay enough attention to her, or something like that.  :unknw:


#37 Pablo

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 04:29 PM

My motor setup for the Havlicek arm is as ready as can be, and jig motor is all set.

 

As I start examining the "Model Cars" article to prep a motor bracket, I realize something.

The numbered and lettered text and photos don't match and make absolutely zero sense.  :wacko2:

 

I have the actual magazine itself and it's the same as my copies. Weirdest write-up I've even seen.

Anybody else experience this? :o

 

Either I'm going cross-eyed, or this is some of the worst quality journalism ever in the history of slot cars.

Morrissey used to do a small tubing size typo every now and then, but nothing as screwed up as this...


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#38 Pablo

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 04:25 PM

Typical of the Champion endbells I've been using lately, some sort of gizmo is required to mate them to the bracket.

This time I used a strange combination of an unknown anglewinder bracket and a REHCo inline bracket.

 

IMG_5804.JPG

 

I hogged out the anglewinder (inner) bracket to make it fit and be adjustable, then trimmed it to look like Bob's.

The REHCo (outer) inline bracket flange hole was enlarged using my Unibit® and trimmed to serve as a bracket thickener gizmo.

 

IMG_5798.JPG

 

IMG_5803.JPG

 

The finished bracket combination is a perfect fit and adjustable for gearing changes just like Bob's Associated bracket.

 

Still recovering from the headache the "Model Cars" article gave me, but I just now re-read Jairus' comments in his build.

It confirms the article is bad. So I don't feel confused any more.

 

Maybe too much ale with the fish' n chips?

Jairus even used the word "glue." :shok: :)


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#39 Bill from NH

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 05:41 PM

Don't try to understand the drawing for the chassis jig that is posted with the article, either. If you do, you'll get more than a headache. :laugh2:  Not some of the best British publications.


Bill Fernald
 

My wife says I don't pay enough attention to her, or something like that.  :unknw:


#40 Pablo

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 05:58 PM

Thanks, Bill. :)  Jairus documented the problem way back in 2007, but of course I didn't remember it, until it became an issue.

I'll do the best I can to unravel it.
 
Parts gathering phase continues... can stickers from Denmark and body decals from Australia are on order.
Paul Wolcott

#41 Pablo

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 03:35 PM

Parts gathering is done. Here is my plan:

 

Wheelbase 3-7/8"
Guide lead 13/16"
Pan widths 3-1/8"rear, tapered to 3 1/16" front
Clearance 1/32"
Sonic 7t steel solder-on pinion
Cox 32t spur gear
Rear wheels: Unflanged with JK Wonder rubber, 5/8" wide, 13/16" OD, total rear width 3-1/8".
Front wheels: maker unknown, .750" OD, total front width 3-1/16", 1/8" total slop.
Jet Flag/modern .028" braid.
Marklin doubled leadwires.
PCH 1/8" axles.
Ball bearings: shielded, brand unknown.

Bob was a low CG fan. Seems like he used lots of .047" and .032" wire, and a little .055".

 

Next step: tinning party.  :dance3:
 


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#42 Pablo

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 09:15 PM

Tinning party complete, all wiped clean.
 
IMG_5808.JPG
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#43 Pablo

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 04:26 PM

Some Emott builds had intricate cutouts on the front axle tube - this one doesn't.

Rear axle tube - 11/16" wide rear wheels were mocked up and tube cut to give me a final 3.125" width.

 

IMG_5834.JPG

 

Front wheels trimmed/trued .752" OD.

Jet Flag blueprinted, faced, and hole tapped for a 2-56 screw.

Ball bearings soaked and flushed in lighter fluid, then coated with WD-40.

Cox 32t spur was the truest I have and was given a Koford Gold Billet set screw to balance it.

 

IMG_5836.JPG

 

Not a bad idea to check dummy build axles every now and then for straightness.

I found one of mine to be perfect, and the other not so much.

 

IMG_5822.JPG

 

So I cut the bent part off and relegated the rest of it to donut mounting duty.

Your chassis is only as perfect as the tools you use to make it.   :)


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#44 Pablo

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 05:25 PM

Centers of tubes marked - just one more means of checking alignment in the jig.

 

IMG_5837.JPG


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#45 Bill from NH

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 05:55 PM

I've only cut out a couple front axle tubes, but doubt any improvement is worth the effort. If you have ever one to do, I can tell you what worked best for me. Rear axle tube cutouts, I start with a couple endmill cuts using the Unimat.

Bill Fernald
 

My wife says I don't pay enough attention to her, or something like that.  :unknw:


#46 Pablo

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 08:04 PM

Drop arm: I didn't have a .050" thick "TEAM NUTLEY".
What I do have will work fine, it's used, dirty, scored, only .032" thick but has the correct tongue style.
 
No cutout in the middle, so I made my own based on the dimensions given in photo #23.
Mine may be slightly shorter overall than Bob's, but that won't slow me down.
 
Sanded clean and flatness checked.
Tongue tilt checked and perfected both right/left and fore/aft.
 
IMG_5845.JPG
 
IMG_5846.JPG
 
Now all I have to do is add a 15 thou doubler sandwich...
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#47 Bill from NH

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 08:50 PM

In all likelihood, that's a .032" Parma droparm. I don't recall seeing another manufacturer's 1-1/4" wide droparms made from .032" material, but there is always a maybe.

Bill Fernald
 

My wife says I don't pay enough attention to her, or something like that.  :unknw:


#48 tonyp

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 03:09 PM

Here is Bob's car from the race.

fa27bc0e99401eeb9331444f0aaf631b.jpg
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"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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#49 tonyp

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 03:12 PM

About the race, Bob said the track had a bad launch ramp on the straight and his car was too fast to punch the straight. So he cruised for the whole race just staying in the lead not trying to crush the competition.

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
Noose Painted Bodies
Retro East co-founder
American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
Arco Champion
Car Model Magazine Series Amateur Champion
2016 ORS Anglewinder Constructors Championsh
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#50 Pablo

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 08:08 PM

Slices of Neckcheese motor stickers arrived today, perfect.

Thanks, Niels.  :yahoo:

 

IMG_5904.JPG

 

H arm arrived also, must be a conspiracy to make me work.  :)

 

IMG_5908.JPG


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