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Can tires be placed directly on armature shaft/direct drive?


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#1 brucefl

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 04:02 PM

Wouldn't it make sense and eliminate weak links?
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#2 Robert BG

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 04:18 PM

It's been done before,take a look at JK's direct drive car that they offer ;)


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#3 Dennis David

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 04:19 PM

Problem with that solution is the lack of brakes, at least on my car.


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#4 Racer36

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 04:53 PM

I have one of the JK DD cars... somewhat underwhelming...

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#5 MSwiss

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 04:59 PM

Wouldn't it make sense and eliminate weak links?


The JK cars have their limitations.
 
They are sort of a low key car, for smaller tracks, and racers with limited mechanical ability, as they do "eliminate weak links."
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#6 Phil Hackett

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 06:15 PM

All you'd be doing is replacing a weak link with another. Gears aren't weak: the motor mounting and stiffness is and the attachment of the gear to the axle is probably less than optimum for today's cars.
 
In today's world of sub-gram component weight, real solutions aren't popular.


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#7 Jairus

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 07:25 PM

Even better Bruce, would be a planetary gear set built into one end of the motor driving the center axle.

That way the armature, spinning outside the central axle could turn 3 to 4 times the driven axle speed providing the very brakes and torque we all love in racing.

Each motor could be built with different gear ratios and arm winds, not to mention be totally fool proof and sealed!

That's a thought I had in 1979 anyway.


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#8 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 07:56 PM

I'd like to see five-pole direct drive Eurosport motors.


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#9 Ramcatlarry

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 08:01 PM

New technology is not always better technology.

 

I am going to do a trial of the JK direct drive cars for the Fieldhouse rental cars as will a set of Hawk-25 cars geared 3/1 or so... as rental cars compared to Scaley/Carrera types. Biggest issue I have is outfitting direct drive 2mm wheels with silicone or eurothane rubber for the no-glue track... 3/32" no problem.


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#10 Dennis David

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 08:20 PM

In 1/32 NSR makes 2mm wheels.
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#11 brucefl

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 08:21 PM

So, Jairus, theoretically we could run very mild winds and get extremely fast cars that won't generate so much heat and destructive forces, This planetary gearing is like what's used in fishing reels I believe. Perhaps a mini flywheel to keep the momemtum or would that only be good with the ability to down shift or upshift.

Now flywheel is probably nonsense but it sounded cool to mention.

Any drawings showing this (cause we know you're the consumate artist,and anything you can dream you can put into artwork (as per your model car artwork.) I'd love to see a prototype drawing (hey, you're one-upping Roy Wong). Cool, Jairus.


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#12 S.O. Watt

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 08:29 PM

Just bring an old Pittman 704/5/6 up to date.

 

It even had a five-pole amateur IIRC.

 

But remember the K.I.S.S. principle.


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#13 brucefl

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 08:45 PM

Pittman Group 7 wing cars

That's what I'm talking about!!!


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#14 Jairus

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 09:09 PM

Drawings, no.

 

But if you understand how planetary gear sets work... a slot car could actually have two speeds if one were incorporated into the design.

 

Crazy why nobody has tried it because every automatic transmission today has at least two sets in each transmission including my own 1958 Ford wagon.

 


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#15 brucefl

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 09:37 PM

You'd be the one that could make one, I've seen your work up close.

I'd like to see it.


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#16 NSwanberg

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 01:18 AM

Drawings no.
But if you understand how planetary gear sets work.... a slot car could actually have two speeds if one were incorporated into the design.
Crazy why nobody has tried it because every automatic transmission today has at least two sets in each transmission including my own 1958 Ford wagon.

 
Dual clutch transmissions?
 
Ford PowerShift Transmission


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#17 havlicek

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 07:10 AM

Gears are wonderful things. Whether you put them outside the motor or inside the motor (actually an extension of the motor case), they enable motors to do the things we want them to better. They aren't a "weak link" unless poorly done, but anything mechanical has inefficiencies to deal with, and motors without gears all on their own have many of those themselves. Nothing is perfect.


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#18 Les Boyd

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 07:28 AM

Yes, the "weak link" is the person setting the gear lash, or free play... what ever you want to call it. 


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#19 Dave Crevie

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 02:07 PM

Planetaries? You are trying to make something simpler and more reliable by making it more complex.

 

A seven-pole motor with a long shaft is the answer. The motor must have screw holes for mounting at both ends, and must fit intoa cradle in the frame so it is solidly affixed at each end. The motor can needs to have large cut-outs for cooling, as the motor will be turning at a much slower speed. External brushes that can be changed without removing the motor should also be incorporated.

 

Then you will have a slot car that can revolutionize slot racing.   



#20 JK Products

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 06:37 AM

We are working on ways to improve the braking on our direct drive cars and recognized it as a weakness in the design. 


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#21 Cheater

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 07:02 AM

Crazy why nobody has tried it because every automatic transmission today has at least two sets in each transmission including my own 1958 Ford wagon.


Every Model T Ford ever made used a two-speed planetary transmission FWIW. In fact, many of the pre-T Ford have such transmissions.

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#22 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 07:18 AM

Increasing the size of the brushes would increase brakes.

I wonder if a larger wire diameter and adding turns would also help
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#23 Dave Crevie

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 02:50 PM

Greg: The premise behind the direct drive car was to make it simpler. It doesn't matter what kind of trans were used in real cars. 
 
Tim: I did not find driving the DD cars so difficult with the weak brakes. You change your rhythm to compensate for it. Other people who tried the cars found the lack of brakes unacceptable, but they were comparing the DD cars to GT1/Hero cars. When multiple DD cars were run together, the brake problem was not so much an issue. Try running an old Cox car, and see how much brakes it has. And most of the home set cars are just as bad.

Maybe you can inquire if a five-pole arm is available in the FK can. That would help. You have been so great at responding to our questions.
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#24 Cheater

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 02:53 PM

Dave,

My comment was an off-topic aside, meant mostly for Jairus.

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#25 Jairus

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 05:23 PM

Got it Greg, and it was lost on the masses....


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