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Tony P. #188 found!


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#1 mrprostreet

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Posted 03 May 2008 - 06:42 PM

Early Monday morning, I received a phone call from my neighbor. She said while driving around flea marketing on Sunday, she saw a small sign on a lawn that said "Old Slot Cars For Sale". She gave me an address of 39 Kingsland Avenue, Nutley, NJ. (Home of Nutley Raceway).

I thought, of course, this would be a total mistake, maybe slot machines or someone selling their used new stuff. I went to 39 and the sign was gone. Something told me to go back around and look one more time, and sure enough it was the wrong address. There was a sign on the lawn of 29 Kingsland. I pulled into the driveway, rang the doorbell, and an old woman came to the door. I asked about the slot cars and she said give me a minute. She called her son from the basement. He came to the door with a small green box. He said let me show you what I have. He pulled out the Tony P. chassis first, a Bob Emott, and one that he had built, Ralph Deangelo. An avid racer of Nutley Racerway. The last thing he wanted to do was to sell this box and explained to me that it was a big part of his life and that he would not let it go cheap. His fond memories of Tony (by the way, Tony called him Gopher), the genuine gentlemen way of Bob Emmot, the custom winds of Mike Tango, and the names go on and on.

He explained that the motor in the car was bought from Camen and was a "Pooch" .23 air gap CW can with 24 CCW arm. The box contained quite a few bubble gum arms by Tango. Others By Big Jim and Kean. He are some pictures to start of the Tony P. #188.

Enjoy,

Vinny

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  • rodslot53 and Dave Reed like this
Vinny Spina




#2 Noose

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Posted 03 May 2008 - 07:37 PM

Priceless! Great, great find, Vinny.

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
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#3 mrprostreet

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Posted 03 May 2008 - 08:13 PM

This is the body John Hockdorf, the first person to go 4 sec flat on the Nutley Blue King, threw into the garbage can at Nutley raceway. Ralph picked it out and ran on Tony's and Bob's chassis.

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Vinny Spina

#4 MarcusPHagen

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 04:45 AM

Vinny, thanks so much for posting these pictures.

For the sake of our members with dial-up, I resampled the pictures to 640x480 with IrfanView, then uploaded them to Slotblog as attachments. The numbers above the pics will link to your site for those who want to see them in all their original 1024x768 glory!
Marcus P. Hagen -- see below, my five favorite quotes: applicable to slot cars & life in general.
[ "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.". . Daniel Patrick Moynihan ]
[ "Time is the best teacher. Unfortunately, it kills all its students.". . . . . . . . Hector Berlioz ]
[ "There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness." . . . . . . . . . . . Dave Barry ]
[ "Build what you like to build, they are all doomed." . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Prof. Fate ]
[ "The less rules the more fun. Run what you brung." . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Larry LS ]

#5 slotcarone

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 07:46 AM

:D Nice find, Vinny!!! Right up your alley!!!

What else were you able to wrangle out of him?

Thanks for the pictures.

Mike Katz

Scratchbuilts forever!!


#6 Matt Bruce

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 07:59 AM

Hey Tony,

Is that a custom steel center section or was it cut from something back in the day? It looks custom.

You can see Tony`s building style is unquestionable. He builds today like he did back then, truly inspiring. One of the great masters' handiwork.

#7 mrprostreet

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 08:36 AM

Here are four bubblegum arms found in the box, hand-wound by Mike Tango and signed, and two 24 singles. That Mike would never tell how many turns but Ralph said they were ballistic. A 25 single and a 27 double.

Posted Image
Vinny Spina

#8 Fred_J

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 09:01 AM

I live in Nutley, and I never see this kind of stuff! Congradulations, Vinnie! You've certainly got the knack!
Fred Jespersen

#9 tonyp

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 08:55 AM

Hi Matt,

Matt, thanks...

That was an REH center section we sold as a Team Nutley product. I did not start hand-cutting them until a while later. They really worked well. The secret was bending the rear axle supports to 90 degrees to move the cross piece closer to the motor without breaking them off. They came bent at a 45 degree angle and made the cross piece of the center way too far forward. I guess that was around 1969?

Vinny,

So did you buy that car for me? I remember Ralph, he was one of the little kids that would hang around that we would make go for Cokes, lunch, etc. I think his dad may have owned a big furniture store.

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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#10 tonyp

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 12:48 PM

Actually they were rebadged Mura arms. Mike never wound any armatures. That's why he never knew the exact turns. LOL.

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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#11 Steve Deiters

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 12:49 PM

I wanted to comment on the Nutley "bubblegum" armatures.

In the late '60s Mura was offering "private label" bubble gum armatures to anyone who was capable of writing a P.O. and paying the bill. Nutley had arms, as did REH Distributing under the REHco name, and I think Certus. Thre may have been others.

The arm was supplied with the purchasing company's name engraved on them. While the Nutley arm may have been wound to specs supplied by Mike Tango it is unlikely that he wound them. I know the REHco arm was a Mura spec arm with one less turn. We weren't quite as specific or scientific in those days!

#12 Black Flag

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 01:44 PM

Hi Tony:

Mura would wind whatever you wanted, The key was to adjust the turns to reflect the difference in total lenth of wire, i.e. hand versus machine wound. Once you had that figured out, they were not bad.

First batch was epoxied by Mura and balanced by Thorp. My second batch was epoxied by me using epoxy from a power plant engineer. Balanced by Thorp, they were quite a bit faster than the original, and very reliable.
Roy Lobb

#13 tonyp

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 02:04 PM

Roy,

You really think Mike specified a wind? LOL... If he did, he got it from Peter. I kind of remember them being the standard Mura winds, but I could be wrong.

I know they would custom wind OEM orders evidenced by how good yours were.

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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#14 turim

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 07:30 PM

Vinny,
So did you buy that car for me? I remember Ralph, he was one of the little kids that would hang around that we would make go for Cokes, lunch etc. I think his dad may have owned a big furniture store.

Tony,

Vinny said it was worth $3,000. He said he would trade it to you for your latest areo car and one of your "good" motors.

Either that or at a discount... $2,900! After all, it is #188 out of over how many... 10,000,000,000!!! An early rare find from a master builder.

:shok:
Turi Morreale

#15 NJ Racer

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 08:02 PM

Sweet deal, Vinny. ;)

So did you convince Ralph to start racing again with you and us?
"Ya gotta be in it to win it"

Ray Carlisi

#16 mrprostreet

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 08:08 PM

Ray:

I'm going to bring him to the next race. I offered him a car but he said he would like to practice first being he has not raced since 1973.
Vinny Spina

#17 mrprostreet

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 08:34 PM

Bob Emott "Super Pile #287":

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Vinny Spina

#18 tonyp

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 07:01 AM

Nice! Did you clean up the Emott or is that the way it was? It almost looks brand new...

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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#19 Noose

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 07:20 AM

It does look sweet. Mine is few years older, as I had 1/8" axles, but looks pretty similar.

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
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The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#20 tonyp

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 07:28 AM

I do not know where Bob got that number from. He confessed to me he never made more than maybe 150 to 200 chassis in total, if that many.

He did not make many but they sure as hell were good...

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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#21 Bill from NH

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 07:48 AM

Maybe he didn't start with #1? :)

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#22 tonyp

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 07:55 AM

Or counted by 5s? LOL.

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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#23 mrprostreet

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 11:58 AM

Tony:

I started to clean this one by hand. Ralph said he bought the chassis from Bob, but I saw no engraving until I started to clean it.

I know if I didn't show Bob's engraving I would be subject to abuse by a unnamed expert (hint, not you, not Bob, not Noose, not John, not Rick, not Jarius, not Vitter, not Billy, not Dennis :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:).
Vinny Spina

#24 tonyp

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 12:13 PM

It is a beautiful example. It has Bob's trademark "painted" solder joints and the wire-tied plumber hinge tubes.

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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#25 Noose

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 12:16 PM

And like yours, that famous piece of piano wire to stop the body from flexing too far over in the bank!

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
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The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#26 tonyp

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 12:16 PM

Vinny, bring them to Dom's. I'd like to see them up close for old times' sake.

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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ip


#27 tonyp

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 08:25 AM

Vinny,

It is Ed Hochdorf, not John.

It looks like the body has the front diaplane made from one of the plastic cards the airlines used to have in the back of the seats with all the emergency escape info on. Racers used to steal all these out of the planes to use for spoiler material.

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
Noose Painted Bodies
Retro East co-founder
American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
Arco Champion
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2016 ORS Anglewinder Constructors Championsh
ip


#28 mrprostreet

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 09:02 AM

Tony:

I think you're right on both counts. It looks like one has the TWA emblem on it or what is left of it.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image
Vinny Spina

#29 Noose

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 09:16 AM

Yup... that's what we used to do!

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
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The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#30 tonyp

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 10:30 AM

It appears to have one of my "shovel" diaplanes where the sides are bent up and stapled to the sides of the body in front of the wheel well. This kept the diaplane from dragging on the track.

Vintage technology.

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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#31 Gator Bob

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 05:35 PM

Just found this. Wow, great stuff.

 

WTG on the luck of the find, Vinny.


Bob Israelite

#32 TSR

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 06:23 PM

Very nice find!  Since the Associated center section also marketed by REH and several other companies, was first introduced in April 1970, the Tony P chassis must have been built sometimes between mid-1970 and early 1971. The Emott is definitely 1970 from its design and details.

 

The motor is a Champion C-can with the purple endbell and the homemade buss bars, likely from the last months of 1970, since the can itself became available in September that year. I have never seen one by Joel with the two holes joined like they are on this example, possibly for a milder armature? GP20? S25? Who knows. Maybe Joel remembers...

 

In any case, nice to see cars that have survived in such great condition. They might not mean much to many, but they are little treasures and you shoud cherish them as such.

 

Besides Mike Tango at Nutley, the "bubblegum" arms were also marketed by Dave Bloom, Certus, and Dart, and of course by Mura. Each was engraved as such, personalized. I do not know how good they were as I have never used one, but remember that by 1970, they benefited from lots of upgrades suggested by John Cukras and Pete Zimmerman, and were likely pretty good for what they were, production arms.

 

I was unaware that Lucas made bodies by 1970s, unless he was just painting them. I have Lucas beginning body production by mid-1973...

:)


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#33 tonyp

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 07:32 AM

Lucas made bodies after the 70's. While Nutley was open he was simply painting them.


"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
Noose Painted Bodies
Retro East co-founder
American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
Arco Champion
Car Model Magazine Series Amateur Champion
2016 ORS Anglewinder Constructors Championsh
ip


#34 Mbloes

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 02:48 PM

Tony how did you bend up the rear struts?


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#35 tonyp

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 06:15 PM

They were already bent at about a 45 degree angle. I used to put center in a vice with an xacto right at the bend. I used an old test block to tap on the legs until they were 90 degrees. Broke maybe one or two out of all the chassis I used these on.

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
Noose Painted Bodies
Retro East co-founder
American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
Arco Champion
Car Model Magazine Series Amateur Champion
2016 ORS Anglewinder Constructors Championsh
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