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Timeframe for changes in technology in the late '60s?


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#1 YetiSRP

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 09:11 AM

Next year I'll have been involved in slot racing for 50 years, not counting my early Strombecker years or my Aurora four-ane set, so you would think I would know this but...

 

Want to do a fun project so I'd like to know;

 

1. About when did the switch take place from 1/8" axles to 3/32"?

 

2. When did anglewinders become the norm? I'm thinking late '67, 68?

 

3. When did we go from endbell drive to can drive?

 

Thanks.


Jim Bandes




#2 MSwiss

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 01:07 PM

Jim,

I edited your title, adding some detail on the info you are looking for.


Mike Swiss
 
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#3 Mark Wampler

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 01:33 PM

Seems to me that advancements in Slot hardware came from SoCal.  Since I'm out in the sticks,  it took a month or so for the newest features to hit my track.  Floppy pans came out a few months before anglewinders came to us.  You would think floppy pans would have come around a lot sooner than '68, speaking from memory and location.  Those soft threaded axles  I don't miss.  Drill blanks probably came out maybe '67?


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#4 Samiam

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 02:41 PM

If only there was a book available with this bit of Slot Car history. :search:


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#5 S.O. Watt

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 02:59 PM

Look on this site under "Pro Racing Motor and Chassis Timeline" under the "Independent Scratch Builder".

 

     Pro Motor & Chassis    


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#6 YetiSRP

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 03:20 PM

Massively informative.

 

Thanks


Jim Bandes

#7 Dallas Racer

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 04:28 PM

Look on this site under "Pro Racing Motor and Chassis Timeline" under the "Independent Scratch Builder".

 

     Pro Motor & Chassis    

 

That's awesome! I can't believe no one responded to that thread.


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#8 Bob Kurkowski

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 05:01 PM

That's a very interesting chart which leads me to a question.

 

In 1968 the introduction of 'low profile guides' is listed.  What exactly was considered a low profile guide?

 

Is a 'Jet Flag' being considered a low profile guide since if memory serves me correct weren't  'Cox' guides the racers standard. I don't remember ever seeing the milled type of low profile guides we have available today.

 

Bob K.



#9 Phil Hackett

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 05:18 PM

The switch from 1/8 to 3/32 happened **around** 1970... I wasn't racing for 2 years between 1970 and 72... when I left it was 1/8 everywhere and when I returned it was all 3/32...

 

The anglewinder became *a thing* late '68 to mid '69. Somewhere in the haul of periodicals I recieved should be the race report of Sullivan winning a race in Texas with an anglewinder. I had several anglewinder chassis in 1969...

 

The switch from endbell to can drive was related to the anglewinder chassis change. IIRC, the endbell drive motors ran the wrong direction for the anglewinder cars... so.. swap the ends unless you had the Lenz motors/armatures (a left-handed Mura!)


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#10 tonyp

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 06:26 PM

Jerry Brady was the first to use 3/32 axles using stainless steel surgical tubing his father found for him for reducers.

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#11 Ramcatlarry

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 10:12 AM

Axles:  The MRRC 1/32 scale rail racing kits of the late 1950s came with 3/32" axles and press-on wheels.  I machined my own set screw rims in the early 1960s.  Early axles may have been piano wire and prone to bending, but drill blanks have always been the option to use.  Since most of the racers used 'off the shelf' parts, threaded axles came in 1/8 and until the wheels were made in that size, the big axles were most common in 1/24 scale.


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#12 Half Fast

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 11:54 AM

With all that glue, why did you need those multi hinged marvels of chassis?.

 

Couldn't you simply have slammed any old "lead sled" through that muck and let the glue do the "handling" for you?

 

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#13 Mark Wampler

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 02:05 PM

Well, IDK,  glue and down force make better drivers?  That might have contributed to slot car demise.  I'm glad threaded axles went out with 1/8 diameter. :D    


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#14 Phil Hackett

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 05:06 PM

With all that glue, why did you need those multi hinged marvels of chassis?.

 

Couldn't you simply have slammed any old "lead sled" through that muck and let the glue do the "handling" for you?

 

Cheers

 

No.


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#15 Brian Cochrane

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 06:45 PM

Many changes were happening so fast in the late 60's.There were thousands of racers racing at hundreds of tracks. And credit to them would IMO go to someone that was a pro that used those changes and was winning with them.I am not trying to take anything away from anyone,but there were guys building all sorts of great stuff  and great ideas,but if you weren't on the world stage you weren't noticed for your inovations.Slot car builders and racers from back then were pretty smart.If you can build it you did .The rules were pretty much run what you brung.And  also on the point made about heavy glue,I don't recall much glue being used before 1968 or 69.



#16 Mark Wampler

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 09:17 PM

  also on the point made about heavy glue,I don't recall much glue being used before 1968 or 69.

 

One of the fastest tracks on the Central Cal Coast was a 220 ft glassy surface track that used zero glue!  The fast guys were using silicone capped spongies.   Keeping the dust off was the only track cleaning necessary.


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#17 NSwanberg

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 11:38 PM

 

One of the fastest tracks on the Central Cal Coast was a 220 ft glassy surface track that used zero glue!  The fast guys were using silicone capped spongies.   Keeping the dust off was the only track cleaning necessary.

If we used silicone capped spongies the racers and renters would all be helping to keep the tracks clean. I find tack cloths work very well under such conditions.

 

 

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#18 Brian Cochrane

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 04:59 AM

I only know of how the tracks in my area on Long Island were and they were a clean surface with nothing added to them .The cars would swing out in the corners.That's all we knew so that's what delt with.You could "Nerf" off the car in the lane next to you in the corners pretty easy,so driving back then was a little different then.Also when you hit the bank turn your car would swing out.We would call it peaking out.You could change that by changing your gearing.You could also change your traction by changing your gearing.There was a lot of of different types of tire traction additives you could buy from the store but many guys had there own homemade stuff.Alot of us used oil of wintergreen straight or mixed.I used lestoil cleaner,and other household type cleaners and of coarse lighter fluid.When glue started showing up on track surfaces,it changed everything.Cars got lighter,spoilers started showing up ect.I'm not saying they didn't have these things earlier in slot car racing,i'm saying now these things actually were their to make the cars handle better and were not just there for looks.I worked at the store I raced at in the 60's and I saw first hand how it all took a dive.We had new car kits that were already outdated in weeks.and the weekly racing went from having many racers of all ages to just 20 or so men racing because their cars were so much faster than the kids cars so the kids stopped showing up.It basically turned into a kinda club instead of a store.The store owner and I were great friends and in 1969 when he told me he was going to have to close the door we both cryed.A very sad day.I totally understand that some peoples experiences that they recall from back then may be different then mine.I am just telling you what mine was.


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#19 Bob Kurkowski

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 06:12 AM

I have to agree with Brian Cochrane on the fact that there was a whole lot of building and development going on that didn't get no where near the recognition it deserved. Take Parma International Raceway and the Slot Shop in Elyria for example, in the late 60's-early 70's there was more going on  there then at most any raceway in the country and that is a proven fact by the races that were held at Parma and the caliper of the drivers that were coming from the Parma-Elyria area. You don't hear much mentioned of Michigan or even Chicago for that matter yet the racers in these areas were also developing ideas and winning races also.

 

Its funny how things go full circle when people realize that the fun has been ripped out of their hobby and then they look back and see that most of the damage suffered is irreversible. People participate in activities for the most part for the fun of it, very few participate in activities to make a living so when the activity becomes more work then fun people tend to leave the activity and leave with a bad feeling in them also.

 

Full glue racing just like today's constant motor bickering are probably the 2 main things that have driven more people away from slot cars then any other thing I have witnessed in over 50 years of involvement with the hobby. The glue thing seems to be somewhat under control however the motor problems are continuing and as much as some will not admit, the hobby is still losing numbers.

 

Sorry about the drift...Bob K.


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#20 MSwiss

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 07:47 AM

Slot racing is losing #'s because a lot of the participants are passing away.

PS- I don't know of anyone not racing in the Chicago area due to motor bickering.
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#21 gc4895

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 11:54 AM

Cars aren't toys anymore and the entry level equipment is a pretty steep barrier to new entrants. Most new entrants want to start on the cheap which often means inexpensive, largely unhelpful controllers. The rtr cars offered are seldom set up to work correctly and beginners are clueless on tires. I watch a dad with kids floundering around with kids anxious to drive yet are frustrated by lousy rental controllers and shop worn wing cars. I now keep a box with two good controllers and a couple of old JK chassis, correct tires I store in bottles, Parma high downforce bodies and Death Star motors. It is very heartening to me to watch the kids light up when they actually get to start running laps without coming off every few seconds. Generally, they are having a ball like I did at that age. Like I still am.

Yes, the dad always wants to then buy my loaners which I can't sell cause then I won't have loaners. And he is shocked to find out good controllers go for $170 or so each. Kids have a good time but they are playing with my $600 of "loaner" stuff.
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#22 Dave Crevie

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 01:56 PM

When I was racing in the early/mid 60's slot cars had already graduated from being toys. If any of the older regulars

heard you call them toys you might get punched. Worst of all were the women that wandered into the facility and

called the cars "cute". 

 

During that time I traveled to many tracks in the SoCal area. I found that racers at tracks with formica surfaces mostly

used silicone tires when they came out. Those racing on plywood or masonite tracks seemed to stick with foams,

doctored up with some sort of concoction. Most popular was Coppertone tanning lotion. A few tracks did not allow

doping of the tires, and as I remember silicones were the most popular there. 


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#23 jimht

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 02:22 PM

Apologies for fueling the thread drift.

Mark Bauer said:

 

"...Kids have a good time but they are playing with my $600 of "loaner" stuff."

 

I don't get your point. Just how is this productive in any way?

You may be getting some satisfaction but you are not promoting the RTR product available at the Raceway.

Maybe it's not for racing as you define it but RTR equipment is not designed for that and shouldn't be anyway.

 

Granted, the raceway may need better cars and controllers for rentals, but your loaning out "$600 of "loaner" stuff", that is apparently tuned for racing isn't promoting that, eh?.

Pretty much any basic RTR can be made into a fun rental by dropping a motor in it that turns 15K-25K.

 

The only real purpose built rental, the Whisperjet, may have been suitable for the older tracks (built by American) but those tracks are gone and nowadays a detuned stamped steel anglewinder with a thicker body is appropriate...and why would anyone need a high dollar controller for that?


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#24 Bob Kurkowski

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 05:33 PM

If anyone thinks motors have not been a huge problem in this hobby they need to look at some of this hobby's history

 

I want .513 arms...No, I want .540.

 

I want bushings....No, I want bearings.

 

I want machine wound...No, I want hand wound

 

I want to pay $50....No, I want to pay $60

 

I want to build motors...No, I don't want to build motors.

 

I want single magnets.....No, I want Quads and more

 

I want sealed motors... No, I don't want seals and on and on and....

 

If you still don't believe me that motors are a huge problem with this hobby go over to the USRA Nats at Mid America and ask those guys how they feel about the latest 'Cahooza Catastrophe'.

 

I don't believe that the numbers are dropping off because of the participants dying but I can tell you one thing, unless something is done real soon there will be no one dying to be a participant.

 

Bob K.


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#25 MSwiss

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 06:13 PM

I'll concede I don't keep up much with built motor gossip.

But as far as dwindling #'s, I don't know.

Despite the beautiful spring day, we got 30 guys for a Hardbody race this past Saturday.

And if it was January, and we had 35-40, there would of been complaints that guys got home too late. LOL

If guys really want to race, they'll find something to race.

I'm curious, what were all the innovations coming out of Parma/ Elyria in the late 60's, early 70's?

The 888?

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.






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