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Emott builds - historical discussions & photos


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#1 Martin

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 03:40 PM

Hi Paul,

Your build was an inspiration to take some pics of what I believe is a original Emott chassis from the same period as your build. Lots of nice details that I thought you might find interesting.

m1.jpg

m2.jpg
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#2 Martin

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 05:25 PM

I just wonder what the hell I was doing, that I did not see this race at Tottenham. I was less than 30 miles away . At least the article in Model cars gave me lots of pics to work from back in '69.

Here are a few more pics for you. The signature is hard to see unless the light is right. I wonder if a spin in the tumbler would show it off better, but I like the patina and it shows its age.  

Humble for sure, beautiful engineering and craftsmanship. RIP, Mr. Bob Emott.

m3.jpg

m4.jpg

m5.jpg

m6.jpg
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#3 tonyp

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 06:56 PM

Pablo,

Just to set the record straight, Bob told me he may have built maybe 100 chassis during that era.

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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#4 Pablo

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 07:24 PM

:o Holy cow!! I'll just mimic the Dec '69 Model Cars article the best I can.
 
I won't try and better what Jairus has already done - if mine is nearly as cool as his, I'll be happy. :good:
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#5 Bill from NH

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 07:41 PM

Martin,

In your last photo with the droparm engraving, it appears the main rail has a smaller OD than that of the outer rail. Is the inner rail made from .055" piano wire, or is that just an optical illusion in the photo?

Bill Fernald
 

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#6 tonyp

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 07:44 PM

Looks like .055"/.047" rails with .063" for motor box rails. That was a popular combination at the time.

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
Retro East co-founder
American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
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#7 Bill from NH

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 08:06 PM

Thanks, Tony. :)

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#8 Cheater

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 07:44 AM

What I find most interesting about Martin's Emott chassis is the divided pivot for the droparm. Since that would be a lot more fiddly to build, I wonder if Bob tested that against the normal solid roparm pivot and found it worked better.

Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#9 tonyp

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 07:47 AM

I believe the droparm was cut after the fact. Not sure if by Bob or someone else. Probably to try and get a bit more flex for more traction.
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"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
Retro East co-founder
American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
Arco Champion
Car Model Magazine Series Amateur Champion
2016 ORS Anglewinder Constructors Championsh
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#10 Martin

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 09:19 PM

Thanks, Tony, for your insight on that cut drop-arm, and Gregory for your observation. I was thinking it was cut before soldering only because I looked for signs of a scar on surrounding parts but found none. Its is also cut really square and clean which while not impossible would be hard for most builders to do.

Have you, Tony, or anybody else ever seen this split tongue design before and what would be the race conditions to try this. No glue maybe???  
 
Paul, I apologize if this is drifting from your build. Should it be moved to the Vintage pro racing section? I want to be sensitive to you.
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#11 tonyp

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 02:21 AM

Martin,

I never saw Bob build a car with the drop arm cut like that, but anything is possible. I would think if he did it would be for a slippery track but again that was built in the start of the "more glue" era.

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
Retro East co-founder
American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
Arco Champion
Car Model Magazine Series Amateur Champion
2016 ORS Anglewinder Constructors Championsh
ip


#12 Cheater

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 11:01 AM

Have you, Tony, or anybody else ever seen this split tongue design before...


Martin,

I can't recall seeing a split plate drop arm like that but do have vague recollections of seeing at least one drop arm where two L-shapes at the rear corners were used as the pivots, rather than a single wire pivot joining the rails.

Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#13 Bill from NH

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 11:37 PM

Ken, are you in eastern MA? if so, do you go to Modelville in Ashland?


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#14 grooverunner

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 04:24 PM

Bill,

 

Yes I do. I live on the south shore near Plymouth. I do go to Modelville and know Peter and Richard, I try to get there at least once a month, but my work schedule prohibits that from being consistent.


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#15 Bill from NH

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 06:32 PM

From 1969-71, I lived in the neighborhood of Ashland where Modelville now is located, just across Rte. 126. I know Richard but somehow Peter and I have never met, even though I lived in the Framingham area nine years.

 

The winter of '73, I worked for Dick Cafarelli when Modelville was in Framingham. I go to Plymouth occasionally. My wife grew up in Waltham and has siblings who live in the Manomet section of Plymouth. As a matter of fact, I'll be down there tomorrow and Saturday. :)


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#16 Larry Labounty

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 10:58 PM

From 1969-71, I lived in the neighborhood of Ashland where Modelville now is located, just across Rte. 126. I know Richard but somehow Peter and I have never met, even though I lived in the Framingham area nine years.

 

The winter of '73, I worked for Dick Cafarelli when Modelville was in Framingham. I go to Plymouth occasionally. My wife grew up in Waltham and has siblings who live in the Manomet section of Plymouth. As a matter of fact, I'll be down there tomorrow and Saturday. :)

 

Bill,

 

I always thought you where from the Elmsford area when we race. Or is my memory just getting worse LOL.



#17 Bill from NH

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 07:26 PM

Bill , I always thought you where from the Elmsford area when we race.or is my memory just getting worst LOL

 

Larry, I was born and grew up in Maine. I spent nine years in the Ashland/Framingham area after college from 1969-78. In the spring of '78 I moved to new Hampshire and have been here ever since.

 

I only visited the Elmsford raceway once, in I think 1978. I'm not sophisticated or rich enough to live in Westchester County. :laugh2:


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#18 Martin

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 01:42 PM

I tried to read the Model Cars December '69 article and just went round in circles (as you and Jairus pointed out) not well laid out and hard to find certain info. Like how thick are the side pans are and what is the width? The drawing I think says 11/16", is that what you see? I did this also. If you add all the rails I think they would add up to .5"-ish then add the droparm at 1.25" then 2" X .75" for the side pans you get 3.25" which I think is a little too wide. So maybe the side pans are 11/16".

I was going to get the materials and build along when time allows but already got nerf-ed into the wall. 

I will get the Emott original chassis on deck so I confirm and maybe answer my own questions.

Are you doing a CCW or a CW motor? I need some advice on the best way to tell? Does a motor just run at lower amps in the correct rotation? Is there more to it?
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#19 Martin

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 01:03 AM

Thanks, Paul, for taking the time to explain CW and CCW, I also read rotation from the endbell so that I am clear.

So a right side drive chassis (CCW motor) it is, same as the MCS article. Bob's race car was left side drive (CW motor). Eddie Blackwell's car, right drive CCW, and finally my Emott car is right drive CCW motor. Note they are all endbell drive.

So I am not getting hung up on this detail (maybe a little) but because there is no standard how did (do) racers share motors or build motors for competitors. Love to hear from racers/builders that had (have) to deal with this issue once the anglewinder was the design of choice.
 
Side note: did you determine the side pans are .032" thick?
 
Anyone know where the best place to buy brass strips? Now I do, I called K&S and they told me Ace and True Value hardware stores should carry it or can get it from there warehouse.
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#20 Bill from NH

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 05:56 AM

Martin,

Some arm winders, such as Mura, Thorp, and others sold both CW and CCW arms at some point. If you needed a CW arm for a particular chassis, you bought one of the CW arms. Likewise, if you needed a CCW arm, you bought one of those.

For awhile, some winders used arm shafts that extended at both the comm and stack ends. Those could be used to build either can-drive or endbell-drive motors.

Other than a Mura NCC Grp 20, all my vintage arms are CW at the can end. Any I had with the double extended shafts, I shortened the comm end.

Therefore, I've never built a right-side-gear chassis since I first built anglewinders. All of mine have been can-drive on the left.

Bill Fernald
 

"I'm not short, I'm just down to earth."


#21 tonyp

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 07:57 AM

Most East Coast cars either endbell or can drive at that time were built with the can on the inside of the donut for a blue King.
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"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
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American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
Arco Champion
Car Model Magazine Series Amateur Champion
2016 ORS Anglewinder Constructors Championsh
ip


#22 Martin

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 02:38 PM

Tony, that makes sense to put that extra weight on the inside of the long right hander  If you take a look at the Tottenham pics of the notable cars many( actually all pictured ) got that detail wrong. Bob got it right and won, coincidence?hmmmm.

 

 

I have 2 Champion grey slate fixtures. one has pins set for side pan width of  3.030 max and the other is set at 3.2" max any clues what the rules were at this 69 time period.


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#23 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 02:50 PM

I must be looking at something different because the photos I find of Bob's car are setup end bell drive with the can outside in the king donut.


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#24 Martin

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 03:16 PM

Eddie,

In the Tottenham  pic of the winning car the heavy part of the motor (the magnets and armature) are on the right side. The donut is a right turn? There are three right turns, one left, and the banking. 

So would not that put the heavy side to the inside? Please correct me if I have this all wrong. I maybe having a case of dyslexia?

tot1.png
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#25 tonyp

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 03:18 PM

You got it. He also added lead to the inside of the donut pan.

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
Retro East co-founder
American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
Arco Champion
Car Model Magazine Series Amateur Champion
2016 ORS Anglewinder Constructors Championsh
ip






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