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Emott builds - historical discussions & photos


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#26 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 03:55 PM

I stand corrected. That is not the pictures I was looking at. Let em see if I can figure out what I was looking at.
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#27 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 04:02 PM

I can't figure out how to link to it but at the start of this thread is a link to a previous build of a replica of Bob's Tottenham car and the photos in that thread are not the same.
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Eddie Fleming

#28 MSwiss

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 04:40 PM

The link is still there, in the first post.

HERE it is again.

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#29 Bill from NH

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 05:25 PM

I can'f figure out how to link to it but at the start of this thread is a link to a previous build of a replica of Bob's Tottenham car and the photos in that thread are not the same.

 

Eddie, you are correct, the car in those photos has a motor with the can & magnets on the left. it's endbell driven, mounted on the right side of the chassis.


Bill Fernald
 

How old should a highway be before you tell it, that it has been adopted?


#30 TSR

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 05:31 PM

The chassis shown by Martin Windmill is indeed a 1971 Emott (all the "signs" are there) and someone along the way did cut the drop arm likely in an effort to make the center section more flexible in very light glue conditions. Here is an "uncut" chassis for documentation purposes: 

emott_chassis 007.JPG

emott_chassis 008.JPG

At the time, split pans and various forms of side pans trimming was popular, the "science" was not "settled" yet. Bob used both versions, constantly testing. The chassis below are part of a variety that he retained, then legated to the LASCM with Tony P's help. 

Here is one in Steve Okeefe's hands, set for repair: 

emott_chassis 012.JPG

emott_chassis 013.JPG

Here is another with split pans and BEE steel center section:

emott-bee-steel-car-2.jpg

And one with added weight to the drop arm for heavy glue... 

Vintage-Chassis-Emott-1.jpg

All in all, Robert Emott Jr. was a master and taught many of us how to do it right.  He is being missed.  



 


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#31 Martin

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 07:45 PM

Paul, I for one understand you are building a replica of the HOW TO in the Model Cars mag. Any other questions/comments are just my curiosity about Emotts work. Hopping its not a distraction to your build. Let me know I will bugger off  somewhere else?

 

I too am just now beginning to learn and appreciate the minute details of Emott's work.

 

This is for Philippe or anyone in the know. My Emott chassis has 1/8 axles front and rear. So when did 3/32 axles first appear?  

 

Tony P. said: "Most East Coast cars either endbell or can drive at that time were built with the can on the inside of the donut for a blue King"

.Paul said "It's a statement of fact. How can we compare that info to a car that was run at a race in England?"

Paul the track in England (Tottenham) was a Blue King so we can compare. Right?

 

From this moment forward I will always put my can on the inside of the donut (ha ha) but its true. it makes sense if you plan to run on a king. Whats amazing is all those home track Tottenham racers got it wrong, go figure?


Martin Windmill

#32 Bill from NH

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 07:52 PM

Most East Coast cars either endbell or can drive at that time were built with the can on the inside of the donut for a blue King.

 

The  chassis photos Eddie questioned are both built for right-side gearing, so post #9, which we did read, doesn't apply to his question. What Eddie is saying is that in some photos of the Tottingham car, the can/magnet placement agrees with Tony's post #73(see above), yet in other photos of the car, the can/magnet placement will be on the outside of a King's donut. With heavy glue in the 70's, I think a motor's weight distribution on a king went out the window I never saw a right-side geared chassis on a king from 1971-98.. Frankly, I doubt if matter which way you build yours.


Bill Fernald
 

How old should a highway be before you tell it, that it has been adopted?


#33 MSwiss

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 08:00 PM

This is for Philippe or anyone in the know. My Emott chassis has 1/8 axles front and rear. So when did 3/32 axles first appear?  

From Steve Okeefe's cool chart, it looks like July or August of 1969.

 

http://slotblog.net/...-motor-chassis/


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#34 Bill from NH

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 08:07 PM

This is for Philippe or anyone in the know. My Emott chassis has 1/8 axles front and rear. So when did 3/32 axles first appear?  

 

 

 

Martin, it didn't change everywhere at the same time in the US. Philippe can  answer for the West. Here in New England, it was late 71 or early 72. I recall it happened at the same time as min dia.. rear tires went from 7/8" to 13/16" & min fronts from 3/4" to 5/8". Only my first anglewinder chassis had 1/8" axles.


Bill Fernald
 

How old should a highway be before you tell it, that it has been adopted?


#35 Martin

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 08:18 PM

At the risk of being contrary to Philippe opinion of my chassis being 1971. Here goes, I think it would have been built with 3/32 axles in late 69 or early 70 at the latest. So am I wrong in thinking my Emott with 1/8" axles and  split pans dates it to 1969? to me it looks the same technology as Bobs chassis raced in Tottenham. Please enlighten me if I am wrong on this one.

 

Bill I just read your post, remember we are talking about a top pro, Emott was leading or on top of all the gofast developments. He was not located in a small town where they still had lots of 1/8" axles to sell.

 

I did a little more research and found this on axle size. Not that size matters unless you are trying to find a time line on development.

 

The Emott Archives

In post #18 and # 20 Bob mentioned the change to 3/32" here. Who knows what race and date he is referring to? Then that date would mean my chassis would have been built before that date?

Bob wrote

"Tony...
That may be the first 3/32" axle car... I think it is the car I built to run at a big race in Texas that I didn't get to race in... Huh!...

 

Jerry Brady and I were sharing a room and we overslept and missed the close of tech after working overnight to finish our cars... The race director asked the other racers to vote on wether we should be allowed to enter late. So being sleep-deprived and a bit stupid, we put our cars in paper bags so no-one would see our new SUPER DUPER STATE OF THE ART LOW-CG chassis, and waited for the vote... He explained that if ONE person voted no, we would not be allowed to enter... Well, there was one no vote... I don't remember who. So we made the trip to Texas for nothing...

But, we did get to meet the immortal "Hump", one of the neatest guys I ever met in slot racing... But Hump is another long story... PVA and Jerry would remember him!!!

BTW, I tried my car at Nutley after we got back and it was nothing special, just a good car... But from then on, everyone changed to 3/32" axles... And I gave up on the ultimate low CG idea... Too much work for too little gain... but it seemed like a good idea at the time..."

A mission statement of sorts 

Steve Okeefe wrote

Post #7 and 8 "The Dallas Pro-Am, where Bob and Jerry Brady had (but didn't get to run) the first cars with 3/32" axles, was on July 4th, 1969."


Martin Windmill

#36 Martin

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 08:57 PM

Bill said "yet in other photos of the car, the can/magnet placement will be on the outside of a King's donut." post #88

 

Bill there is only a 1 top and 1 bottom shot of Bobs winning car. You may be looking at Blackwells (Emott chassis) or the chassis in the how to article maybe?.

 

Lets drop the subject of right side left side. I do not want to distract from  Pablo's Builds  remember we are in his playpen. All I know is Bob got his Tottenham race chassis right for this track on this day and I learned something from this.


Martin Windmill

#37 Bill from NH

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Posted 06 May 2017 - 09:03 AM

I'll drop this discussion entirely. For my comments made in post #90, in the 70's I was living in the Boston suburb or Framingham. While at Framingham, I had access to two of the best East coast wing tracks, the Framingham Sovereign(Purple Mile) & the C.& C. Blue King in Coventry, CT. Anybody, who was anybody, raced at one of these two locations, or at both. I don't recall seeing Bob Emott traveling north to these locations, he might have, but I could name a ton of other NY/NJ pros who did. 


Bill Fernald
 

How old should a highway be before you tell it, that it has been adopted?


#38 tonyp

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Posted 06 May 2017 - 10:00 AM

When c&c was one of the hot tracks for pro racing Bob no longer racing. I do remember going there at least once much earlier for a car model race. The king was actually in a different part of the building and they had a yellow track.


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#39 Martin

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Posted 06 May 2017 - 12:01 PM

Tony,  I am curios about the date Bob stopped racing.?

 Did he keep building to sell or just drop out from slots?


Martin Windmill

#40 tonyp

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Posted 06 May 2017 - 12:09 PM

I believe in 70-71. After the NCC series we lost a lot of racers, Rubin, PVA, Brady, etc who moved on to other things. Bob managed Nutley raceway after they moved to Belleville until they closed. He would occasionally build a chassis for a local but stopped running himself

This is what I consider the second era of pro racers with the group like the Camen guys replaced the old guard at the top.


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#41 TSR

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Posted 06 May 2017 - 12:18 PM

" So am I wrong in thinking my Emott with 1/8" axles and  split pans dates it to 1969?"

Martin, a bit of history and of course I don't have everything I need handy, but as a general rule: 
The Emott late-1968 and "production" 1969 chassis school with tapered rails (he built quite a few of these, I think we have at least 6 of this design with variations, come with the tilt-axis soldered on the main rails behind the front axle, some on the drop arm):


1381.jpg

1382.jpg

The Emott 1969 "works" cars (for him, Chris Vitucci and few others) 1969 chassis school:

1379.jpg

 

1380.jpg

All-new generation by 1969's end, and also used in 1970 with timid use of 3/32" axles sometimes (they were deemed a bit fragile). The chassis you have is of 1970 with split pans. 1970 is the year of the split pans. Bob did not use split pans for a very long time: 

emott_chassis 007.JPG

emott_okeefe_2009 002.JPG

1971 and the last of the Emott "classic era" chassis:

MVC-017S.JPG

Martin, the LASCM acquired all of what Bob had in his basement, minus the two earliest known examples (late 1967) which surfaced at the time of his house's demolition and that were used at the 1967 "Nats" in Atlanta:

1.jpg

The LASCM has no less than 18 genuine Emott chassis, and there are a few more being rebuilt by Steve Okeefe who is doing a phenomenal job.
Thiese two pictures below are from the day when thanks to Tony P, the LASCM acquired the collection:

lascm-pictures-08-13-08 109.jpg

lascm-pictures-08-13-08.jpg

In the same collection was the Pete von Ahrens world-record car, seen here:

 

pva_world_record-1.jpg

It was beautifully restored by Steve Okeefe:

pva-record-chassis-3.jpg







 


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#42 Martin

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Posted 06 May 2017 - 12:48 PM

Philippe, If you compare my Emott to Blackwells mid 1969 Tottenham car they are built by Bob with the similar technology?. 

I want to learn how to identify this stuff, Thanks for you help.  


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#43 TSR

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Posted 06 May 2017 - 01:44 PM

Hi Martin,
the new book (yes, yes, it will eventually get out of the womb!) explains the progression in detail of what happened in chassis construction in the "Classic Era". Of course it has to go through some generalization, but remember that slot car racing follows regular life: someone invent something and everyone copies it until someone finds a better mousetrap and everyone switches to the better mousetrap. Fashion follows, and not always applies to reason. For a long time it was a matter of trying something new between teens, and not always a scientific process!
In any case it all began with brass plate and a file.  :)

Just for fun: one of the very first chassis ever built by Bob Emott, dated 1965:

emott_1965 (1).jpg

 

 


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#44 Martin

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Posted 06 May 2017 - 02:11 PM

Can we call this cool 1965 chassis "THE MAGWINDER"

 

FYI  my Emott has side pans and drop arm made from .050" thick brass. 3/4" fronts and 7/8" rears,1/8 axles front and rear.  Not sure if that helps date it?

 

One of the many reasons I look forward to your new book,is I plan to display the many chassis I have collected in chronological order, with emphasis on the logical. I love to see and understand the development of this "PRO" period  

 

Thanks for compiling this bank (book) of knowledge. Now hit the print button so we can send you lots of money for all your work.


Martin Windmill

#45 TSR

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Posted 06 May 2017 - 03:39 PM

:laugh2:  Labor of (interrupted) love, not of profit...

"my Emott has side pans and drop arm made from .050" thick brass. 3/4" fronts and 7/8" rears,1/8 axles front and rear.  Not sure if that helps date it?"

From 1968 through 1971, these were stadard tires sizes for most racing, under NCC and Arco rules. In 1972, tires sizes went to 5/8" fronts and 13/16" rears. Axles are a different story since 3/32" jobs had been available long before the anglewinder even appeared, but virtually no one used them.
Motors are also a good form of identification: Mabuchi FT16D cans were still used by specialist motor builders, while most used Champion 517 and "black" cans from 1969 onward. But Bob Kean still favored the Cox NASCAR 16D cans for some reason, and we have a 1971 Emott car with an intact Kean motor using this combination. Emott used the car with a rather older chassis that worked well for him at Hinsdale and finished second with it, then sold it to a local who only raced it once before his track shut down. 30 years later, the fellow sold the car on eBay to... me for the royal sum of 35 bucks; I was the only bidder. All I did is clean it up and fit a new body as the original was gone, as usual. Here it is:

emott_1969_hinsdale.jpg

2010_06_6 138.JPG

2010_06_6 137.JPG

The Mura and Champion smaller C-can motors came online in 1971, but it also took a while before everyone used them.


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#46 Pablo

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 11:08 PM

I split my thread into two parts tonight. Many Emott fans and historians chimed in with good info and photos on my "Emott Tottenham build" thread here:
 
Emott Tottenham build
 
but things were getting confused and cluttered, since Bob built so many chassis during that era.
The posts were relevant and I wanted to keep them, so they've simply been moved here.
 
By all means, let the discussion continue, please. Meanwhile, I'll continue my magazine chassis and car build where I started it.

Everybody happy with that?  :)
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#47 Jairus

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 09:53 AM

Happy, happy, happy!  :victory:


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#48 Howie Ursaner

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 10:26 AM

What really happened in Texas is that Bob was working on the new cars for us not having a clue if they would be any good. Not only did they have 3/32" axles but they had a smaller can and there was a lot of new stuff to try, let alone race. We kept Bob up building by feeding him Ritalin, an amphetamine pill to keep him working for two days. Just when we needed to be at the track to race, absolutely no practice, Bob had fallen asleep at the workbench and we couldn't get him awake to finish the cars!!

That's what happened and then they voted for us not to race, Thank you, Texas!! Probably for the better!
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#49 Martin

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 12:47 PM

Thanks, Howie, for these details of that Texas July '69 race. I have so much respect for the dedication and effort you racers had back then. After all that effort then to not get the vote to race, ouch! Poor sportsmanship on their part.
 

What really happened in Texas is that Bob was working on the new cars for us not having a clue if they would be any good. Not only did they have 3/32" axles but they had a smaller can and there was a lot of new stuff to try, let alone race. We kept Bob up building by feeding him Ritalin, an amphetamine pill to keep him working for two days. Just when we needed to be at the track to race, absolutely no practice, Bob had fallen asleep at the workbench and we couldn't get him awake to finish the cars!!

That's what happened and then they voted for us not to race, Thank you, Texas!! Probably for the better!

 
You say "probably for the better" is that because of the lack of sleep or the fact that the cars were untested or maybe both? Did you (Bob or Jerry) ever go back to 1/8" axles or did that development stick with the pros from that moment on?
 
I have many chassis from '64 to '74 and they will be displayed in chronological order (as best I can) so as to see the chassis development of this golden age that you were such a big part of.   
 
Thanks, Paul, for keeping this all organized."Happy with that." :)


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#50 Half Fast

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 02:18 PM

The tales of the "unsportsmanship" that occurred in the "Classic Era" are truly amazing. I am glad that so many of the guys from that era are around to tell the stories.

 

Cheers.


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