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#26 old & gray

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 12:40 PM

“If the facts are against you, argue the law. If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the law and the facts are against you, pound the table and yell like hell”  – Carl Sandburg.


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#27 Markomatic

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 12:42 PM

If the wire were to be straight wouldn't it not just fall out without some sort of retention system as is on the "rejected" part?


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#28 Dan Myers

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 12:54 PM

Here's my opinion.

 

The racers should not run the asylum. 

 

Why?

 

Racers invariably vote to promote their personal agendas, i.e to benefit themselves and their racing activities. They don't, as a rule, vote to benefit the overall hobby/activity itself.

 

This is the 'fatal flaw' in the USRA structure.

 

As the USRA is currently constituted, i.e. 'mob rule,' there is zero focus and direction. Nor can there be in the current environment.

 

Of all the hobbies I've examined (and it is many, many hobbies, some involving competition and some not,) model car racing is clearly the least altruistic, in terms of having some percentage of the participants who wish to see it prosper and survive over time.

 

Greg is correct here. Racers are their own worst enemy when it comes to making rules pertaining to what they race. I have personally witnessed it destroy not only slot cars, but go karts as well.

 

Dan,
 

Sorry to hear you invested so in X25s. The Mosetti and the cC3 are and will obsolete the X25 and that is the natural procession of this hobby and always has been.

 

Side note the C43 is a tick faster.

 

Mic, I started in 1/24 racing about a decade ago at Bristolville in Ohio for the first 18 months. I never knew of anything other than flat track racing and the Flexi 5 couldn't hold a candle to the JK chassis so my investment in chassis is over time, but when you step away from the $14 motor horsepower war that everyone wants to have and you put cars on a technical track and not a punch bowl you don't have these issues.  

 

As for Mr. Swiss' last question, Tim can do whatever he chooses. Just know that if this is the course he chooses to travel down, he has lost me and my family as customers. My family and I will not participate using any of his products in any manner, in any series. All he simply had to do to make this chassis legal to the rules was bend stops in the pans for the back wire like the X25 and simply remove the hole from the second front posts making it a stop as well. Then he has straight bars without bends.

 

Also I know guys who have used tubing instead of solid wire in the X25 and other JK chassis for years.

 

Now if you don't mind I have a job to go do as I am not afforded the ability to sit and keyboard all day, someone has to keep the SS bucket filling.

 

As for all the questions about the cotter pins for the Turbo-Flex, I am sure those are grandfathered in as they were that way long before the rule.


Dan "Cable Guy" Myers II

Some day this will be fun again. Right???

#29 Half Fast

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 01:13 PM

You keep blaming the wrong guy!

 

It ain't Tim, it's the poobah of the USRA.

 

Cheers.


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Bill Botjer

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#30 MSwiss

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 01:19 PM

Of course you are correct, Bill.

Dan is expressing his ire towards JK, instead of inquiring to the USRA ND why the rules are not enforced equally and fairly for all companies.
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Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

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#31 Ramcatlarry

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 01:34 PM

Two things are needed.

 

1) Can straight rods/pins be used as frame connectors? Since neither JK or Mossetti frames have pan stops for the pins, either soldered ends or wire insulation  can 'retain' the rods.  Easy transition to manufacture and implement as a standard.

 

2) A membership convention needs to be done to rewrite the whole USRA rulebook. A member is a registered voter and should be able to submit and vote on all issues. 


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#32 MSwiss

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 01:53 PM

So, where are the pieces of a chassis defined? (A bite bar, for instance).

 

And just what does a "bite bar" have to do with something whose function is to hold the pieces of the chassis together?

 

And, for that matter, just where is the method of connecting the pieces of a chassis together defined?

 

Jim,

 

If you want a good hoot, go to OWH.

 

You'll learn a new term... "connector tube"  LOL.


Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516


#33 Pablo

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 02:29 PM

I think this thread belongs in the USRA forum, not General Slot Car Racing.

It's a USRA issue, not a slot car issue, and no good will become of this discussion here.


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#34 jimht

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 02:30 PM

Manufacturers and tech inspectors should define equipment rules.

 

Racers should agree on procedural rules.

 

Politicians should garner votes.


Jim Honeycutt

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#35 MSwiss

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 02:47 PM

I think this thread belongs in the USRA forum, not General Slot Car Racing.

It's a USRA issue, not a slot car issue, and no good will become of this discussion here.

 

Done.


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Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516


#36 TG Racing

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 03:54 PM

As far as I know, one can still use JK chassis in FNRS.


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#37 Justin A. Porter

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 04:15 PM

I am fairly certain that this reflects only the stamped steel classes of USRA Division 2, and as such ISRA, FSCS, OCC, MSCS, FNRS, and other such members of the alphabet soup are not effected. 

 

All the same, this is a very unfortunate state of affairs.


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#38 Samiam

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 04:15 PM

“If the facts are against you, argue the law. If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the law and the facts are against you, pound the table and yell like hell”   ― Carl Sandburg

 

There's always "Alternative facts." – Kelly Ann Conway.

 

BTW... I keep seeing USRA ND. Who may I ask is the ND?


Sam Levitch
 
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#39 Justin A. Porter

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 04:25 PM

National Director - Roger Schmitt of Mid-America Raceway.


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#40 Wizard Of Iz

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 04:32 PM

I am fairly certain that this reflects only the stamped steel classes of USRA Division 2, and as such ISRA, FSCS, OCC, MSCS, FNRS, and other such members of the alphabet soup are not effected. 

 

All the same, this is a very unfortunate state of affairs.

 

I am not on the BoD for the Florida Slot Car Series (FSCS) but I can tell you that racers in Florida are enjoying racing both the Mossetti and the JK C43. The FSCS guidelines simply specify "any stamped steel chassis that is commercially available." And, of course, that aluminum pans are allowed. 

 

And both brands are winning races.

 

It's kind of fun to see guys trying different things.


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#41 Danny Zona

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 05:35 PM

Very few series use USRA rules because of things like this.

Gets old!


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Test, test, test and go test some more.
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#42 MikeC

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 06:28 PM

In NorCal, we've tried over the last couple of years to simplify and clarify our rules, and I think we've had some success. When new chassis like the Mossetti and JK C43 come out, we discuss if there's any reason to not allow them, and if not, we allow them. If the chassis comes out after our first race in October, it isn't allowed until the following season. Basically, we "lock" our allowed chassis, both in the flexi classes and GT12, as of the first race.

 

While we are a "racer" run organization, and we certainly listen to racer feedback and input, we have a small group of people that make decisions, call it a "Tech Committee," or whatever you want, that addresses potential new rules, or issues that arose during the previous years, and make corrections to the rules as needed.

 

I think part of the USRA's rulemaking process is the delay in addressing changes that may need to be made because of advances in the industry. Waiting a year or more to make a change to a rule, to allow what has been almost universally accepted by the racing community as a "legal" chassis, seems ridiculous. Perhaps ISRA  and their chassis approval process is a place we/USRA can look to find a solution. 


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#43 Frankie Schaffier

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 07:23 PM

Suppose this doesn't surprise me. I was all fired up to run the USRA Nats, I've never run that style of Nats and was really looking forward to running all the classes. I bought two Cahzoa motors, bought and painted bodies along with GT12 Chassis and built cars just for this event. Only to read once all my cars were built that the guy that sold me the two Cahzoa motors just made it so the Cahzoa motors can't be ran in the classes for reasons that still are not clear to me. So, I canceled all my res and made a stand and didn't attend the Nats.

 

Now the same guy that sold me the Cahzoas turns around and squishes the new JK chassis over a piece of wire. Looking at the entries for that race, it looks like I wasn't the only one that canceled plans. In my opinion it was a joke to even call it the "Nats."

@Tim... Nice to see you make a stand. Don't let one guy running an empty org influence your drive to make better products for slot racers. It's the USRA's loss, not yours.


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#44 Samiam

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 08:10 PM

Without innovation we would all be stuck with Champion Turbo-Flex for life. We still have a monthly Turbo-Flex race, largely to remember how much better chassis are now.

 

I've got a box of Hawk motors I'm playing with now where a year ago I had none. Equipment evolves, like controllers and guides. That is and has always been a part of the game.

 

Retro racing has successfully turned back the clock. Yet the designs, even there, are not static.

 

I got a box full of Parma Flexi-Kars, Flexi-2s, 3s, 4s, and 5s, Turbo-Flexs, Astros, and half a dozen other stamped steel chassis designs from JK and Trinity. Well, there goes my retirement money. :cray:

 

At least my Retro stuff can get mini-torched and with some new wire get turned into the next best chassis I ever built. :to_become_senile:


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Sam Levitch
 
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#45 Mike Patterson

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 09:58 PM

Without innovation we would all be stuck with Champion Turbo-Flex for life. We still have a monthly Turbo-Flex race, largely to remember how much better chassis are now.

 

And why would this be a bad thing? A racer can buy a decent handling, pretty much indestructable chassis, use it in a variety of classes with all kinds of different bodies, and have fun.

 

The pursuit of the "latest and greatest" has got us to where we are today. Please explain to me how slot racing is so much better now than 20 years ago, when the Turbo-Flex ruled.


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#46 gc4895

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 11:41 PM

Speaking just for me, the venerable Turbo-flex is clearly combat serviceable and duller than spit. A heaping dose of the heavily chrome-plated same' ole same' ole. I quit racing around 2003 and started back a couple ago. I can't begin to express how thrilled I was to discover Cheetah 11s and X25s. Then the C43 landed and they are nothing but pure pleasure. Can't wait for the C44.

 

I'm currently enjoying playing with the 21 model Indy and F1 class open wheel cars. And less we forget, with the model 21 4-1/2 inch cars we created a spec class using Dirt Outlaw bodies (highly recommended!). We are living in a time of having a wealth of flexi chassis choice and I'm loving every minute of it.

Oh, and I'm loving building Retros, too.

Absolutely nothing wrong with Turbos. But, speaking just for me, figuring out gearing-tires-setup-maybe a little lead and finding that 0.01 faster lap time on a new chassis is the spice of racing. It may be, kinda sorta, why you don't see too many front-engined, rear wheel drive Offenhausers in the field at Indy any longer. But they were really something to behold when I was a kid visiting the brickyard for the first time.

As always, YMMV.


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#47 glueside

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 07:15 AM

Since this was deleted from OWH I will post on here also:
 
This is Roger and his Henchman trying to outlaw JK products so their Mossetti parts will be the dominate chassis on the market. If the Mossetti chassis is so good then why didn't it win anything at the ISRA? Just like at the USRA Nationals at the National Dictators place – when the Mossetti chassis won their pictures were posted all over the place asking for everyone to stroke them, but when the outnumbered JK C21 won in LMP there are no pictures whatsoever. Seem funny that this happened, but then I expected it from him.
 
Just because this manufacturer wouldn't give hundreds of dollars worth of free product to this shop, so they could sell at 100% profit. I am sure that no other slot car shop in the country, just because they are having a national race, asks for hundreds of dollars worth of free product they can sell. Yeah, I can see discounted a little more, but not 100%. This is true robbery on the part of the track owner.
 
Everyone has got to wake up and see what is going on, but there are other people that support the National Dictator that are not out for the benefit of the hobby, but out for their own best interest. Which is the demise of USRA and then placing their own biased organization slanted at getting the racers to spend more money each and every month.

 

Sincerely,
 
Jeff Strause


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USSCA 2016 4 1/2" NASCAR Champion

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#48 smithspeedway

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 07:26 AM

I don't have a horse in this race, but I would like to point out that we don't really know why someone does something. Speculating as to motives is unproductive and causes permanent damage. The real issue here is a rules/bylaw structure that made the situation possible. Doesn't anyone want to fix that? 

 

What's done is done. Assigning blame is pointless.

 

Steve


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#49 Half Fast

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 07:40 AM

Henchman rhymes with...? :shok:

 

Cheers,


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Bill Botjer

Faster then, wiser now.

The most dangerous form of ignorance is not knowing that you don't know anything!

 

 

 
 

#50 glueside

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 07:42 AM

I don't have a horse in this race, but I would like to point out that we don't really know why someone does something. Speculating as to motives is unproductive and causes permanent damage. The real issue here is a rules/bylaw structure that made the situation possible. Doesn't anyone want to fix that? 

 

What's done is done. Assigning blame is pointless.

 

I will agree with you, but there is not turning back. Roger and his henchman are doing what they want to do no matter if the bylaws say they can or cannot. He thinks he is above the rules of slot cars.

 

I am so disappointed and upset over this situation that this will probably be the last thing I do in slot cars. This organization is so rampant with corruption that people don't see it. I have four or more races per year at one of his facilities and I will not set foot in there any more, and I pulled my sponsorship from the Legends race being held at his track.  

 

I am at the point of being done with slot cars.


Jeff Strause

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Burlington Iowa Kiwanis - President Elect

USSCA 2016 4" NASCAR Champion

USSCA 2016 4 1/2" NASCAR Champion

USSCA 2016 Retro Can-Am Champion

 






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