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#51 Samiam

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 07:53 AM

Wherever there is controversy in slot car racing there is a common stone in the cog. A thorn in the side. A fly in the soup.

 

Or as one blogger phrased it: a cancer.

 

Until this cancer is cut out of this hobby we cannot heal.

 

Whether it's surgery, radiation, or holistic, the tumor must go.


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#52 JerseyJohn

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 10:53 AM

Since this was deleted from OWH I will post on here also:
 
This is Roger and his Henchman trying to outlaw JK products so their Mossetti parts will be the dominate chassis on the market. If the Mossetti chassis is so good then why didn't it win anything at the ISRA? Just like at the USRA Nationals at the National Dictators place – when the Mossetti chassis won their pictures were posted all over the place asking for everyone to stroke them, but when the outnumbered JK C21 won in LMP there are no pictures whatsoever. Seem funny that this happened, but then I expected it from him.
 
Just because this manufacturer wouldn't give hundreds of dollars worth of free product to this shop, so they could sell at 100% profit. I am sure that no other slot car shop in the country, just because they are having a national race, asks for hundreds of dollars worth of free product they can sell. Yeah, I can see discounted a little more, but not 100%. This is true robbery on the part of the track owner.
 
Everyone has got to wake up and see what is going on, but there are other people that support the National Dictator that are not out for the benefit of the hobby, but out for their own best interest. Which is the demise of USRA and then placing their own biased organization slanted at getting the racers to spend more money each and every month.


Like I said, Jeff, follow the money, follow the dollars!!!


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#53 Justin A. Porter

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 11:03 AM

At this point in time, given recent events, I felt it important to state the position of the Ohio Challenge Cup relative to national controversy.

 

As is well known, the OCC has positioned itself for the past eight years as an inexpensive local alternative to the USRA and ISRA. In this mission, we have concentrated on keeping our rules as simple as possible and as stable as possible in order to encourage years to year participation. At the same time, we have been welcoming of new products and manufacturers with both the racer and track owner's bottom line in mind. I, as do the other members of the OCC Board, feel we have been successful to these ends while remaining always mindful of areas for growth and improvement.

In seeing the unhappiness and lack of compromise exhibited within the USRA, an historic organization which for years united the sport and crowned the National Champion, it feels painful to watch its core tenets be discarded over - on the surface - less than $2 worth of piano wire.

 

We in the Ohio Challenge Cup will continue to do as we always have done, reviewing and approving components with the best interests of the racers and track owners in mind.


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#54 Fast Freddie

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 11:51 AM

Stamped Steel Chassis Regulations

 

1. Chassis

 

u) On the Mossetti  1001, 1003, 1006 chassis...must use either .062" dia. brass tube or the M-1052 .064 stainless tube only. Must use push/body pins to retain the bar in the chassis.

 

So if the rule says it's a bar why are we calling it something else and why can't a rule, lets call it line v) read as such;

 

v) On the JK C43 chassis only the bite bars included with the chassis and those in the accessory bite bar packet are legal.

 

I know, it makes too much sense.


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#55 Wizard Of Iz

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 01:08 PM

You're trying to apply logic to slot car drama.
 
Though your quoting of line "u" further illustrates what many have mentioned and complained about... it's another example of the USRA rules lacking consistency. Line "u" refers to it as both a "tube" and a "bar."
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#56 jimht

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 02:31 PM

From the OP: "JK has worked to try to remedy the situation within the USRA."
 
The USRA rules are not the issue.
It's obvious that working out a solution that doesn't involve withdrawal or resignations is quite possible.
 
I think a Trump- :diablo: Bannon :diablo: comparison is not inappropriate here, considering who is involved.  :laugh2: 
 
It seems compromise is not in the playbook.
 
Whether this situation has to do with revenge, money, or power, the bottom line is the agenda of those involved and whether they're willing to work with opponents to get things sorted.

Not so much, obviously.

We've been sticking a fork in both divisions of the USRA for quite a while now, to see if they're done.
Looks as if the Scale division is ready.
 
It will be interesting to see what transpires in the future with the USRA and whether there was any sort of plan behind this mayhem.


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#57 JK Products

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 03:42 PM

I would like to thank all the current scale (Division 2) directors for their honesty and hard work trying to improve the USRA for everyone. Unfortunately, their efforts have been repeatedly blocked on many levels by Roger Schmitt, the current National Director and by virtually all accounts, his unelected associate Ron Hershman. Hershman was regularly and directly involved in the USRA's private board of director’s discussions. This is the very same person that was expelled from the IRRA® board of directors.

 

This corrupt leadership situation resulted in JK Products® withdrawing from the USRA, and now every current and incoming scale director has resigned in protest against the manner in which the USRA has been and still is being run.  

 

Current 2016 Scale Officers

Division Director, Matt Bruce – resigned

Technical Director, Jason Hooper – resigned

Assistant Technical Director, Jon Madtes – resigned

 

Incoming 2017 Scale Officers

Division Director, Rob Voska – resigned

Technical Director, Jon Madtes – resigned

Assistant Technical Director, Jonathan Forsyth – resigned

 

These are some of the finest people in the hobby/sport.

 

After speaking with many of them, the primary source of their frustration was directed at the national director Roger Schmitt and the unelected Ron Hershman.

 

It appears to me that scale racing in some ways needs a reboot and a new way forward.

 

(I tried to post the same in OWH but my account is being blocked until approved by a moderator.)


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#58 kvanpelt

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 03:53 PM

I took care of that for you, Tim, and copied your post to OWH. Lets see if it stays!


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#59 Fast Freddie

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 04:03 PM

Like I wrote on the other site, technically speaking the J-bars on the C43 chassis are not bite bars; they are retainers. The USRA defines a bite bar as a straight wire with no flats and no bends. The J-bars have bends, therefore, they are retainers and you can tell they are retainers because they hook around a chassis stop so they can "retain" their position. 


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#60 Brinkley47

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 04:04 PM

There is a way to fix everyone's problems: race Retro!   :)


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#61 Justin A. Porter

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 04:15 PM

That is and isn't a solution, Will. As delightful as Retro cars are, here's some folks they leave out...

 

Racers who prefer to build motors.

Racers who prefer a modern race car aesthetic

Racers who don't enjoy chassis building

Racers who like the way a high-downforce car behaves

Racers who enjoy the durability of EDM chassis

 

Retro is fantastic. Retro F1s remain one of my all-time favorite car types. However, an IRRA® Can-Am car is not a substitute for a GT12 and what has happened here is that those who enjoy LMP, Group 10, 4.5" NASCAR, GTP, GT12, and Eurosport have been robbed of a functioning sanctioning body. 


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#62 Brinkley47

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 04:42 PM

I definitely understand, Justin.

Would/could ISRA fill that void?


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#63 Samiam

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 04:55 PM

If a new org is put together by the resigning officers, I would highly recommend trademarking the name. Just sayin'.


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#64 Justin A. Porter

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 04:55 PM

I do believe that ISRA could fill that void to an extent, particularly at the faster end of things as ISRA's "baseline" class - Production 24 - uses a sealed hand-out Group 12 motor in Flexi chassis beneath a specified DTM style body (currently I believe the Attan Alfa Romeo Giulia). GT12 and Eurosport rules are thoroughly compatible, with the exception that USRA had recently barred Cahoza components.
 
However, there are not classes in ISRA that are analogous to the slower end of competition, such as LMP or Group 10. Further, ISRA, being a worldwide organization, is not as invested in whether or not there is active racing outside of the Worlds taking place within the USA.
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#65 Frankie Schaffier

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 08:30 PM

Justin... You've posted about OCC, Retro racing, and now ISRA on a thread for the latest USRA issues???
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#66 Justin A. Porter

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 08:17 AM

I've posted the Ohio Challenge Cup's official statement regarding the controversy, which is a statement from the entire board of the series given that the choices the USRA makes directly effect manufacturer and racer decisions, and as such - particularly in Group 10 - the choices the USRA makes directly effect the Ohio Challenge Cup especially as we have been making efforts to bring our own rulebook more in line with USRA and ISRA in terms of chassis rulings. I certainly feel it's the responsibility of a related organization to make their stance as thoroughly transparent as can be.

 

The Retro and ISRA posts were direct responses to statements regarding - in essence - the relevance of the USRA. In my own feeling, there are few organizations with more relevance to the local racer than the USRA. Its legacy to both racing and to the manufacturers is palpable. On a personal level, I grew up with the USRA as the big show. Racing Group 10 Junior in the early '90s, I knew that there were weekends where Dad was going to Mineral Ridge or Tom Thumb or the Parma Challenge Cup or the Blue King Blowout to race against the absolute best. To race against the factory guys. Those four letters, to a youngster with a pink endbell Turboflex wearing a PSE W66 wedge, meant the best racers in the country.

 

It isn't so simple to replace or discard such a legacy. Just as importantly, a rising tide floats all boats. A vibrant USRA means vibrant scale racing at the regional and local level as well. 


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#67 Markomatic

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 08:42 AM

For the Wing type racers you can race in the F2000 series.
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#68 kvanpelt

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 08:59 AM

Great Lakes ISRA, Flat track racing, it's been around since 2007.
 
JRL... Indy or F1 body on a lazar cut spring steel frame with C-can and either S-Wasp or Contender arm.
 
JRL Light... same but with FK motor.
 
B Production.... any stamped steel chassis, closed cockpit GT body with C-can and either S-Wasp or contender arm.
 
B Production Light... same but with FK motor.
 
Open 12... any chassis, open cockpit LMP body with C-can and X12 arm.
 
ES24... Same as USRA or ISRA, anything goes, cobalt motors with spec LMP body.
 
We also have run A Production which is stamped chassis with C-can and X12 arm and spec body.
 
Cahoza and BOW stuff legal, too!!!
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#69 Cheater

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 09:07 AM

KVP,

You may have a different opinion, but from my perspective having seven different classes, with minor difference between some of them, is not a positive.

Gregory Wells

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#70 Rob Voska

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 09:40 AM

Greg,

It's four classes. Start at 9:30 and done by 4-5 PM. 

The light class is to let beginners get involved at a little lower cost and they are run together.  I still often run and sometimes win with my JRL from 2008. Not bad for a nine-year old well used $60 chassis... Still running a few BOW arms. 

2016-17 was our best attended season in a long time. Great friendly group of guys to run with that all get better every race. Seems if you want to race a competitive series it's a great midwest series to run.
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#71 kvanpelt

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 10:53 AM

Sorry, I could have been more descriptive.
 
Four races in a day with half-hour practice between classes, an hour lunch break, and home soon enough to have a date night with the wife. :good:
 
We only recently offered the "Light" version in two classes to spur new growth and give racers the option to run sealed motors. Just trying to appeal to a broader range.
 
An open wheel class, a stamped chassis class, an EDM-X12 class and a Eurosport class, that is a pretty diverse lineup if you ask me. All requiring good setup and driving skills, no monster HP needed.  :sun_bespectacled:
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#72 Cheater

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 11:40 AM

JRL...

JRL Light... same but with FK motor.
 
B Production....

B Production Light...

Open 12...

ES24...

A Production...


Perhaps I will be forgiven for not seeing this scheme as just four classes.
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Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#73 kvanpelt

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 12:51 PM

Of course you are forgiven, Greg, after all it is your sandbox! :heart:
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#74 Cheater

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 01:13 PM

I have several sandboxes here at the house, and you probably know what my two cats do in them... LOL!

Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#75 Jason Holmes

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 01:14 PM

I think the USRA is needed and can be saved with the right people if Roger is gone.

Those that chose to resign will return and do the great job they were trying to do.
 
Jason
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