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New Red Fox guide


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#1 Upfront slot cars

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 09:39 AM

Anyone got any reports on how the new Red Fox guide works on Retro cars? Any faster?


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#2 Bernie

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 10:29 AM

Not Retro car but can report that it was a full tenth faster on LMP car at the D2 Nats. Ran the car with regular guide, then immediately changed to the new one and ran again on the same lane minutes apart. There were others there with the same results.


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#3 Danny Zona

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 10:34 AM

Flat or banked track?


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Test, test, test and go test some more.
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#4 MSwiss

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 10:43 AM

This was on the Gerding King.

The same .1 improvement, was quoted to me, on an LMP car on a flatter Gerding King, in Ohio.


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#5 Brian Ambrose

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 05:27 PM

Why would it be a .1 faster?

#6 MSwiss

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 06:00 PM

Exact words:

"Was a little better in deadman but most improvement was donut and lead-on."


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Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
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#7 Samiam

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 06:40 PM

OK... I'm going to poke a stick in the bee's nest.

 

Are these USRA legal?

 

SIA.


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#8 MSwiss

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 06:48 PM

I don't think USRA has approval on guide flags.

Gugu won 1/32 with one, so that must be the case.

The IRRA® has a maximum blade length and thickness rule, that I suggested early on, when the original Red Fox guide came out.


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Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
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Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
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Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
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#9 Samiam

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 06:53 PM

OK.

 

It's little pieces of wire and not molded plastic that they're fixated on. I get it. :wacko2:


Sam Levitch
 
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#10 MSwiss

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 09:47 PM

Not with a Retro car, but Michael Iga's Group F wing car hot lapped at 3.127 tonight on my King.

 

I think the previous fast hot lap was mid 3.2s, by a number of racers.


Mike Swiss
 
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#11 Greg VanPeenen

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 03:09 PM

Mike,

 

After testing the new guides on a Boxstock, LMP, and a Retro Can-Am I can assure you all that there is something to these new Red Fox guides. You all can argue about why and how and I will just start using them.

 

Greg VanPeenen


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#12 Cheater

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 03:11 PM

GVP, the empiricist... LOL!


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#13 MSwiss

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 03:27 PM

I just got a reorder for 18 pieces from a renowned racer, so I would say there definitely is something to them.

It will be interesting to see how many will show up on top cars at RetroPalooza.


Mike Swiss
 
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#14 kvanpelt

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 03:42 PM

Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, step right up and get 'em while they're hot. :)
 
I've been told the pink ones come from the straightest mold so they have the least wobble! :yes:
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Kevin VanPelt
 
 

 

 


#15 Cheater

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 03:50 PM

Shades of the Jet Flag mold position numbers...


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Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#16 MSwiss

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 03:57 PM

A funny home except they are all dyed. LOL.

Mike Swiss
 
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#17 Samiam

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 05:19 PM

Thanks, Gugu. You just obsoleted all the guide flags in my spare parts inventory. :dash2: :sarcastic_hand:
 
That's OK, I'll just return some deposit bottles and cans to finance my modernization costs. :D
Sam Levitch
 
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#18 The Number of

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 06:07 PM

Not with a Retro car, but Michael Iga's Group F wing car hot lapped at 3.127 tonight on my King.
 
I think the previous fast hot lap was mid 3.2s, by a number of racers.


Probably a tenth can be attributed to Mike Iga driving, did a quick switch today on one of my Group F cars and picked up .018.
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#19 MSwiss

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 06:12 PM

Mike always drives his car.

He ran a 3.23 in the race.

I don't think he was ever quicker than about 3.29, before.

I did the 3.127, after the race, but really, only minimal "driving" was involved.

Mike Swiss
 
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#20 MSwiss

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 06:31 PM

did a quick switch today on one of my Group F cars and picked up .018.

 

In a 24 minute race, that's about 2-1/3 laps.

 

Not huge, but as they say, "Better than a kick in the ass."


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Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
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#21 tonyp

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 06:34 PM

You have any guides that will get me five laps in 24 minutes? If so send me 100. Hopefully I'll get mine in time to try at Holly Hill.


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ip


#22 MSwiss

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 07:24 PM

Tony,

 

They were sent Monday, First Class.

 

Tracking says they are currently in Orlando.


Mike Swiss
 
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#23 tonyp

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 07:54 PM

Thanks.


"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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#24 Jonathan Forsyth

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 08:32 PM

I tried one at the Nats on my 1/32 Euro practice car and it made it as good as my race car. And that car has never been as good. It really allows you to drive harder into the corners. I would highly recommend.


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#25 slotbaker

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 06:39 AM

Any chance of someone posting a few photos of the guide?

 

:huh:


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#26 Samiam

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 06:44 AM

Swiss posted THIS.
 
Very detailed old/new comparison.
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#27 slotbaker

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 06:47 AM

Thanks, Sam. I missed that one.

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#28 Racer36

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 07:06 AM

I got some of these a few weeks ago but just got around to installing a few last night. They thread just like the old ones, so I would guess the material is the same.

I was quite surprised at the width of the blade. It just barely fit in my Cahoza threader.

I will be racing on Monday so we will see if there is any improvement.

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#29 Rick Moore

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 10:39 AM

I performed my first test (more to come) of the new Red Fox guide versus the old Red Fox guide on one of my Retro Can-Am cars yesterday evening. The differences in lap times were in the thousandths, less than one-half of one one-hundredth… pretty much with one being no better than the other, but if I had to pick a “winner” (we all love “winners”), it would be the old Red Fox guide in a photo finish by a nose-hair…
 
Go to post #47 in my ridiculously-long thread on the 1237-series chassis builds for the typically (obvious character flaw) overly long details, should you want more info, or just like to torture yourself:
 
The new Red Fox guide is an excellent guide. But a “tenth”?
 
Rick / CMF3
 
PS: Anyone with stock of the old Red Fox guides, especially the black molybdenum-graphite ones, who wants to get rid of them, let me know…



#30 MSwiss

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 11:01 AM

Not with a Retro car, but Michael Iga's Group F wing car hot lapped at 3.127 tonight on my King.
 
I think the previous fast hot lap was mid 3.2s, by a number of racers.

 

Michael broke the Group F track record, last night, running a big 278 laps.

When taking a picture, I noticed that he took did something I envisioned others doing: shortening up the back (or the front) of the blade to change the post to blade distance.

Of minor note, when testing, keep in mind that some systems like the old SRT don't really give you accurate times in the practice mode.

20170531_211257-1.jpg


Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
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#31 Zippity

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 11:56 AM

Has anyone tried these new flags on a G12 Eurosport chassis on a flat track?

 

I tried one under my G12 wing car and sadly, it was a disaster.  :(



#32 Jason Holmes

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 12:18 PM

Zip,

 

What was the problem?

 

From what I was told by Al Chuck at the Worlds in 27L on his car on black and red it helped greatly .

 

jason



#33 MSwiss

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 12:34 PM

Yeah, I'm not sure what the point of commenting is without an explanation.


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Mike Swiss
 
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#34 Markomatic

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 12:51 PM

How does shortening the flag improve it? Is it better to shorten the front or back?

 

I got some from Mike and have been playing with them a bit. I put one on an existing wing car and I had to move the body forward because the longer post to the front of the guide jammed up against the diaplane. I'm wondering if the improvement for me was because of the guide or moving the body position.


Mark Miller

#35 Greg VanPeenen

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 01:00 PM

Has anyone tried these new flags on a G12 Eurosport chassis on a flat rack?

 

I tried one under my G12 wing car and sadly, it was a disaster :(

 

I tried one on a brand new Hillbilly Boxstock car and it made a huge improvement to an already very, very fast car. Also tried them on 4 inch Stock Car with the old Turbo-Flex chassis, LMP with the new JK chassis, LMP with the new Mossetti chassis, Retro Can-Am and F1, both chassis that have won major Retro races. All were back to back, run car, change guide, and run car again, compare avg. lap times. All showed marked improvement. 

 

Maybe they just work better in America. :)

 

GVP 


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#36 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 01:35 PM

I have no idea if these new guide flags are any better or not. I am just trying to understand the science of why they would be better. The only thing I can come up with is the longer nose may act something like a longer guide lead. And/or stretching out the transition time the car feels turning into a corner? 

 

Anybody??


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#37 jimht

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 02:25 PM

The guide moves the braid further forward, so the car obviously gets power sooner.

 

This gives those using the guide a definite advantage over those who have to wait longer to get their power... YOMV.  :laugh2: 


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#38 John C Martin

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 02:25 PM

How does shortening the flag improve it? Is it better to shorten the front or back?

 

I got some from Mike and have been playing with them a bit. I out one on an existing wing car and I had to move the body forward because the longer post to the front of the guide jammed up against the diaplane. I'm wondering if the improvement for me was because of the guide or moving the body position

 

I vote backside... IMO less friction loss in tight corners with the car's drift.



#39 MSwiss

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 02:29 PM

How does shortening the flag improve it? Is it better to shorten the front or back? I got some from Mike and have been playing with them a bit. I out one on an existing wing car and I had to move the body forward because the longer post to the front of the guide jammed up against the diaplane. I'm wondering if the improvement for me was because of the guide or moving the body position

 

Front or back?

 

That's what experimentation is all about.

 

I think results will (of course) vary from car to car, track to track.

 

I seldom see wing cars improve by moving the body forward, but if the car was too hooked up, it certainly could help.

 

I have no idea if these new guide flags are any better or not. I am just trying to understand the science of why they would be better. The only thing I can come up with is the longer nose may act something like a longer guide lead. and or stretching out the transition time the car feels turning into a corner? 

 

Anybody??

 

Most people talk about being able to brake later/dive in deeper.

 

All I know is racers wouldn't be reordering, sometimes 10, 12, or even 18 pieces if they weren't convinced they were an advantage.

 

Who knows if it's all the geometry of them, or just Gugu hitting the sweet spot on material.


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#40 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 02:30 PM

The guide moves the braid further forward, so the car obviously gets power sooner.

 

This gives those using the guide a definite advantage over those who have to wait longer to get their power... YOMV.  :laugh2: 

 

I see it mo better now, Jim. Thanks.  :crazy:


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#41 Greg VanPeenen

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 03:48 PM

The guide moves the braid further forward, so the car obviously gets power sooner.

 

This gives those using the guide a definite advantage over those who have to wait longer to get their power... YOMV.  :laugh2: 

 

That must be it. LMAO.



#42 Zippity

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 04:32 PM

My apologies for not proving a clearer explanation to my earlier comments - I typed that message at 4.56 AM my time - guess I wasn't properly awake!

 

My comments were not intended to be a criticism of the RF guide, but rather a statement of fact as it performed in my car on our flat track.

 

For whatever reason, the car kept deslotting in a couple of the slower corners which I can usually "fly" through.

 

The guide flag did appear to have a very high rake in the front.

 

I will retry the guide flag at a later date, but in the meantime will try them in my Flexis.  :)



#43 Noose

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 04:42 PM

They are going like crazy here at RetroPalooza and it's at least a tenth better.


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#44 MSwiss

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 04:53 PM

Joe,

Bank speed or handling?


Mike Swiss
 
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#45 Dennis David

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 05:16 PM

I always wondered if there isn't even more room for improvement on guide flag design and materials.

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#46 Dominator

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 09:32 PM

See to be a little better in the back half of the track.
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#47 Upfront slot cars

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 10:03 PM

Tonight's Can-Am Plus winner had one on the car I built for Will Brinkley. New track record was set with a 3.67 and will ran a 3.65 in green in the race.

 

They are better!


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#48 kvanpelt

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 09:55 AM

It's the "Red Queen effect"!


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#49 willy wonka

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 06:07 AM

For me at Palooza the new guides made the car smoother all the way around. I didn't notice anything about getting power sooner or whatnot. Just simply made the cars drive a lil easier.

 

I had to have bodies that were pushed forward a bit becasue the longer length of the flag over what I normally run, which is Parma flags. But I felt like on that style track I couldn't afford to give up the extra speed so I gambled and used them in all classes.

 

They break easy... mine broke in Can-Am and I didn't really recall hitting anything terribly hard.


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#50 Nate Graham

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 01:01 PM

What was the failure point, Will?







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