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New Red Fox guide


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#26 Samiam

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 06:44 AM

Swiss posted THIS.
 
Very detailed old/new comparison.
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#27 slotbaker

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 06:47 AM

Thanks, Sam. I missed that one.

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#28 Racer36

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 07:06 AM

I got some of these a few weeks ago but just got around to installing a few last night. They thread just like the old ones, so I would guess the material is the same.

I was quite surprised at the width of the blade. It just barely fit in my Cahoza threader.

I will be racing on Monday so we will see if there is any improvement.

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#29 Rick Moore

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 10:39 AM

I performed my first test (more to come) of the new Red Fox guide versus the old Red Fox guide on one of my Retro Can-Am cars yesterday evening. The differences in lap times were in the thousandths, less than one-half of one one-hundredth… pretty much with one being no better than the other, but if I had to pick a “winner” (we all love “winners”), it would be the old Red Fox guide in a photo finish by a nose-hair…
 
Go to post #47 in my ridiculously-long thread on the 1237-series chassis builds for the typically (obvious character flaw) overly long details, should you want more info, or just like to torture yourself:
 
The new Red Fox guide is an excellent guide. But a “tenth”?
 
Rick / CMF3
 
PS: Anyone with stock of the old Red Fox guides, especially the black molybdenum-graphite ones, who wants to get rid of them, let me know…



#30 MSwiss

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 11:01 AM

Not with a Retro car, but Michael Iga's Group F wing car hot lapped at 3.127 tonight on my King.
 
I think the previous fast hot lap was mid 3.2s, by a number of racers.

 

Michael broke the Group F track record, last night, running a big 278 laps.

When taking a picture, I noticed that he took did something I envisioned others doing: shortening up the back (or the front) of the blade to change the post to blade distance.

Of minor note, when testing, keep in mind that some systems like the old SRT don't really give you accurate times in the practice mode.

20170531_211257-1.jpg


Mike Swiss
 
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#31 Zippity

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 11:56 AM

Has anyone tried these new flags on a G12 Eurosport chassis on a flat track?

 

I tried one under my G12 wing car and sadly, it was a disaster.  :(



#32 Jason Holmes

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 12:18 PM

Zip,

 

What was the problem?

 

From what I was told by Al Chuck at the Worlds in 27L on his car on black and red it helped greatly .

 

jason



#33 MSwiss

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 12:34 PM

Yeah, I'm not sure what the point of commenting is without an explanation.


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Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
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Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#34 Markomatic

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 12:51 PM

How does shortening the flag improve it? Is it better to shorten the front or back?

 

I got some from Mike and have been playing with them a bit. I put one on an existing wing car and I had to move the body forward because the longer post to the front of the guide jammed up against the diaplane. I'm wondering if the improvement for me was because of the guide or moving the body position.


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#35 Greg VanPeenen

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 01:00 PM

Has anyone tried these new flags on a G12 Eurosport chassis on a flat rack?

 

I tried one under my G12 wing car and sadly, it was a disaster :(

 

I tried one on a brand new Hillbilly Boxstock car and it made a huge improvement to an already very, very fast car. Also tried them on 4 inch Stock Car with the old Turbo-Flex chassis, LMP with the new JK chassis, LMP with the new Mossetti chassis, Retro Can-Am and F1, both chassis that have won major Retro races. All were back to back, run car, change guide, and run car again, compare avg. lap times. All showed marked improvement. 

 

Maybe they just work better in America. :)

 

GVP 


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#36 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 01:35 PM

I have no idea if these new guide flags are any better or not. I am just trying to understand the science of why they would be better. The only thing I can come up with is the longer nose may act something like a longer guide lead. And/or stretching out the transition time the car feels turning into a corner? 

 

Anybody??


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#37 jimht

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 02:25 PM

The guide moves the braid further forward, so the car obviously gets power sooner.

 

This gives those using the guide a definite advantage over those who have to wait longer to get their power... YOMV.  :laugh2: 


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#38 John C Martin

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 02:25 PM

How does shortening the flag improve it? Is it better to shorten the front or back?

 

I got some from Mike and have been playing with them a bit. I out one on an existing wing car and I had to move the body forward because the longer post to the front of the guide jammed up against the diaplane. I'm wondering if the improvement for me was because of the guide or moving the body position

 

I vote backside... IMO less friction loss in tight corners with the car's drift.



#39 MSwiss

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 02:29 PM

How does shortening the flag improve it? Is it better to shorten the front or back? I got some from Mike and have been playing with them a bit. I out one on an existing wing car and I had to move the body forward because the longer post to the front of the guide jammed up against the diaplane. I'm wondering if the improvement for me was because of the guide or moving the body position

 

Front or back?

 

That's what experimentation is all about.

 

I think results will (of course) vary from car to car, track to track.

 

I seldom see wing cars improve by moving the body forward, but if the car was too hooked up, it certainly could help.

 

I have no idea if these new guide flags are any better or not. I am just trying to understand the science of why they would be better. The only thing I can come up with is the longer nose may act something like a longer guide lead. and or stretching out the transition time the car feels turning into a corner? 

 

Anybody??

 

Most people talk about being able to brake later/dive in deeper.

 

All I know is racers wouldn't be reordering, sometimes 10, 12, or even 18 pieces if they weren't convinced they were an advantage.

 

Who knows if it's all the geometry of them, or just Gugu hitting the sweet spot on material.


Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
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Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
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Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#40 Eddie Fleming

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 02:30 PM

The guide moves the braid further forward, so the car obviously gets power sooner.

 

This gives those using the guide a definite advantage over those who have to wait longer to get their power... YOMV.  :laugh2: 

 

I see it mo better now, Jim. Thanks.  :crazy:


Eddie Fleming

#41 Greg VanPeenen

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 03:48 PM

The guide moves the braid further forward, so the car obviously gets power sooner.

 

This gives those using the guide a definite advantage over those who have to wait longer to get their power... YOMV.  :laugh2: 

 

That must be it. LMAO.



#42 Zippity

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 04:32 PM

My apologies for not proving a clearer explanation to my earlier comments - I typed that message at 4.56 AM my time - guess I wasn't properly awake!

 

My comments were not intended to be a criticism of the RF guide, but rather a statement of fact as it performed in my car on our flat track.

 

For whatever reason, the car kept deslotting in a couple of the slower corners which I can usually "fly" through.

 

The guide flag did appear to have a very high rake in the front.

 

I will retry the guide flag at a later date, but in the meantime will try them in my Flexis.  :)



#43 Noose

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 04:42 PM

They are going like crazy here at RetroPalooza and it's at least a tenth better.


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#44 MSwiss

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 04:53 PM

Joe,

Bank speed or handling?


Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
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Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
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Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#45 Dennis David

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 05:16 PM

I always wondered if there isn't even more room for improvement on guide flag design and materials.

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#46 Dominator

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 09:32 PM

See to be a little better in the back half of the track.
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#47 Upfront slot cars

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 10:03 PM

Tonight's Can-Am Plus winner had one on the car I built for Will Brinkley. New track record was set with a 3.67 and will ran a 3.65 in green in the race.

 

They are better!


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#48 kvanpelt

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 09:55 AM

It's the "Red Queen effect"!



#49 willy wonka

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 06:07 AM

For me at Palooza the new guides made the car smoother all the way around. I didn't notice anything about getting power sooner or whatnot. Just simply made the cars drive a lil easier.

 

I had to have bodies that were pushed forward a bit becasue the longer length of the flag over what I normally run, which is Parma flags. But I felt like on that style track I couldn't afford to give up the extra speed so I gambled and used them in all classes.

 

They break easy... mine broke in Can-Am and I didn't really recall hitting anything terribly hard.


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#50 Nate Graham

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 01:01 PM

What was the failure point, Will?







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