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Guide flag blade length


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#1 Zippity

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 09:24 PM

Would anything be gained by racing with a shortened length guide flag blade?

I know that in the early days of slot car racing, many cars used a simple "pin" type guide.

My thinking is that a shorter blade length will reduce drag?

I am going to experiment with a guide flag with a shortened blade (removing some mass from the rear), but before doing so, thought I would ask if anyone else has played around with the concept. After all, I don't want reinvent the wheel smile.gif






#2 slotbaker

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 09:49 PM

I'm suspecting that a short blade, forward of the post, might increase friction as the guide rotates.

Maybe a short blade, on the post centreline, or rearward of the post, might decrease friction.

:huh:

 

I remember a couple of guys trying to reduce friction by removing the centre of the blade, and leaving 1/8" sections front and rear. It didn't seem to make any difference, because most of the friction appears to happen at the front and rear anyway. All of my worn out guides are thin at the front and rear, and thicker in the middle.


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#3 Bill from NH

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 09:54 PM

To reduce drag, you could also cut a slight concave section in the middle of the guide's blade, sort of an upside down "U," yet retain the blade's original length.


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#4 slotbaker

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 09:59 PM

Cutting the upside down "U" is similar to cutting the middle section out and just leaving a bit front and back. Didn't seem to work.

 

I think I remember seeing guides made like you suggest a while ago, but they didn't last long.


Steve King


#5 MSwiss

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 10:00 PM

You will definitely see a difference if you get too short, especially in the tougher turns.

 

When there was a bad batch of flags, about four-five years ago, when a chunk broke off, you would see racers all of sudden falling off in turns they hadn't before.

 

I think that the new Red Fox is longer, the full height of the blade, is why guys are saying they can go deeper in the turns.


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Mike Swiss
 
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#6 Zippity

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 10:46 PM

Mike,

 

I got myself couple of the new Red Fox guides on Thursday night.

 

I haven't tried them out yet, but that is what got me thinking about racing shorter blades - just for the heck of it :)



#7 Pablo

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Posted 27 May 2017 - 10:42 AM

Cheater used to do funny experiments with flags using fishing line - until he got caught.

"He's in the jailhouse now." :laugh2:
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#8 Dennis David

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Posted 27 May 2017 - 11:04 AM

Interestingly some rules in Europe limit the guide flag length so this may be an area to play with. I also wonder if this may effect wing cars since they are really on the edge.

Imagine bringing different guide flags for different tracks.

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#9 Cheater

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Posted 27 May 2017 - 11:16 AM

Never got caught, Pablo, and I only used it one time – honest!

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Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#10 Dennis David

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Posted 27 May 2017 - 11:39 AM

What about the retractable rear guide pin?

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#11 Cheater

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Posted 27 May 2017 - 11:42 AM

Shhh...
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Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#12 Danny Zona

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Posted 27 May 2017 - 11:56 AM

I can say for a fact the original Red Fox guide is 3 hundredths faster on my home track then any other guide. I just don't run them because of the durability factor.
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Test, test, test and go test some more.
You're never fast enough!!!

#13 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 27 May 2017 - 01:15 PM

DZ,
 
Been using RF guides on our mile and never broke one. I only use the black graphite ones.

Those who work for a living are being quickly overwhelmed by those who vote for a living.

Thomas Jefferson: "Paper is poverty. It is only the ghost of money, and not money itself."
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#14 Danny Zona

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Posted 27 May 2017 - 01:24 PM

We have a lot of wreckfests down here. Believe me. LOL.
Test, test, test and go test some more.
You're never fast enough!!!

#15 MSwiss

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Posted 27 May 2017 - 02:29 PM

DZ,
 
Been using RF guides on our mile and never broke one. I only use the black graphite ones.

So you are aware, on the new RF flag, while black is available, it is just a dyed white flag.

 

I assume by your inquiry to PCH, I can put the flags you ordered yesterday, back in stock.


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#16 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 27 May 2017 - 03:04 PM

Just looking for a quote that I'm sure you would be happy to match.

Those who work for a living are being quickly overwhelmed by those who vote for a living.

Thomas Jefferson: "Paper is poverty. It is only the ghost of money, and not money itself."
-David Parrotta


#17 Brinkley47

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Posted 27 May 2017 - 03:08 PM

Durability is a concern for me also. I broke more old ones than I care to count.
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#18 Dave Crevie

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Posted 27 May 2017 - 03:09 PM

If they are using fabric dye to color the flags, they have probably accidentally run into a practice we used to use on Associated nylon suspension pieces for R/C cars. We used to boil them in water for a few seconds, which made them less brittle. Most types of fabric dye need to be boiled for them to penetrate properly. Might be that action takes some of the brittleness out of the plastic guide shoes.

#19 Cheater

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Posted 27 May 2017 - 03:34 PM

I had an engineer with connector company told us to boil 'em in anti-freeze, but I never bothered to try it.

Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#20 MSwiss

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Posted 27 May 2017 - 03:59 PM

Durability is a concern for me also. I broke more old ones than I care to count.

 

Last weekend, Michael Iga won both G27 and G7 at the F2000 Nats, running the new flags.

I honestly don't recall if he got in any big wrecks.

I've threaded over 100 of them, so far, and I would say the effort is much easier, which I think is a good sign. But that might attributed to the post not being oversize, like the old ones.


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#21 tonyp

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Posted 27 May 2017 - 07:44 PM

Ran them on my Stock Car and Can-Am today. Both cars were really good. No time to do an A-B test on race morning but I noticed the stock car was really hooked up.

 

This was on the Holly Hill semi flat track. I felt the biggest improvement was in the deadman a turn I always struggle in.


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#22 MSwiss

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Posted 27 May 2017 - 08:30 PM

Just looking for a quote that I'm sure you would be happy to match.

 

I'm not going to get in a bidding war on $16.50 worth of guide shoes.

 

Regardless, you should support your home track, SpeedZone.

 

Please do me a favor, and don't call me any more.

 

Thank you.


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Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#23 Robert BG

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Posted 28 May 2017 - 09:20 AM

I'm not trying to go off topic here but I did have trouble in the past getting stuff ordered at SpeedZone in the past. Now part of it may have been because I race mostly wings, or I was a relatively new customer, who knows.
 
But I can assure you that is not the case anymore. Mic will pretty much do whatever it takes to get whatever you're looking for ASAP and believe me I've tortured him with some off the wall stuff. ;) I know he's not there every day but it's not like he's hard to get hold of. I can text or message him what I need and he will have it there ASAP.
 
Now back to the guides... I tried two pins before and it showed some promise as you could adjust them as you like to fit a track but reliability was crap. It was just too much force in a localized area.
 
I've also tried the centers cut out and it did OK but it was more of a weight-saving measure and not for handling.
 
Mike I guess Iga's performance in the F-2K Nats answered my previous question ;) on the new RF guides.


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#24 gatormark

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Posted 28 May 2017 - 07:23 PM

Put longer flags on Saturday, big difference. Longer is better, just ask any woman.


Mark Conner

#25 anarot

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 11:14 PM

^^^ as above has said. Longer the better (and deeper as well)


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