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Champion C motor


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#1 havlicek

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 07:19 AM

You don't see many of these around... rare?... collectible?... probably not, but interesting.

 

For one, this version of the Champion "C" (I think there were two) is of a one-piece or "drawn" manufacture. It's not as beautifully-formed as the Mabuchis (*which were actually really nice in this regard... they got at least one thing right :D ), but it is a cool motor nonetheless.  

 

This example was thoroughly rusted and required a whole bunch of cleaning and straightening/flattening before getting a new coat of paint.  Yes, it had the top and bottom tabs, and I cut them off, squaring the open can end afterwards. The completely blown can bushing was removed and replaced with a nice bearing... making for the beginning of a race motor.

For the endbell, I'll use one of these NOS ones I got from eBay that have Champion hardware and what looks like a dead-ringer for the Mura molding, but I believe was also a Champion product.

The magnets are the Champions with the white dots still (barely) visible, and are quite strong indeed! It wasn't just the can that was severely rusted, the magnets were rusted in place... and required some force to get out. I had thought they had been glued-in... but they were simply just "stuck." Interestingly (and most likely because of the thinner can metal on these), the magnets produce a larger "hole," even though they are roughly the same thickness as the Muras and approximately the same long length... maybe a bit shorter.   could actually fit a .560" diameter stack in here with a little extra grinding, but instead I'll use a regular .518" stack and just shim the magnets a bit.

So, this one will be "all Champion," except for an arm courtesy of moi. The lighter can and more "closed" can design should make for a great motor.

IMG_2128_zpslzsmhomk.jpg


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John Havlicek




#2 Bill from NH

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 11:18 AM

John,

 

I wouldn't say it was rare, but it is collectible and highly sought after in certain drag racing circles.

 

The first Champion C-cans were "drawn", but sold without the tabs, because Champion's endbell wasn't available. This early version was truer and straighter than the second version was to be.  

 

This second version was sold with the tabs still attached because they had their own endbell by then. From your photo, it's hard to tell if your endbell blank is a Champion or not. If it doesn't easily slide into and out of the can, it's probably a Mura. Also, it doesn't show flats molded in top and bottom for the can tabs to fit.

 

The Mura is the better blank in my opinion. Champion C-cans were used in most East coast open class motors during the '70s because they ran cooler than Muras. I was common practice to put a third slot or 1/8" hole between the two factory slots both top and bottom and to grind or turn the can sides down to .020".


Bill Fernald
 
I intend to live forever!  So far, so good.  :laugh2:  :laugh2: 

#3 havlicek

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 02:16 PM

Hi Bill,

 

From what I understand, there's also a version of the can that was folded and spot welded at the seams, but I don't know if I've ever seen one.  The end bell is almost certainly a Champion, although when I started testing out different ones for fit, the Mura didn't fit any more or less easy.  

 

Like I had mentioned, it seems as though the internal dimensions here are slightly larger. The endbell also doesn't have "Mura" molded into the back side, and the hardware is sure a dead-ringer for the Champ stuff. I had always assumed that the Champion endbells were made for them by whoever made the Mura ones, and they just had the "Mura" thing removed from the inside.  

 

Anyway, it's a neat setup and I don't know of any other maker of one-piece C-cans. The guy I'm making it for wants big wire... like really big wire. Oy veh!


John Havlicek

#4 Bill from NH

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 06:41 PM

The only folded Champion C-cans I've seen are the plated ones Pros Sot made for them in the '90s and early 2000s. I have two different versions of the Champion drawn .030" cans.

 

I think the major difference between them is they were manufactured by different companies. I used to hear about drawn .040" early version cans used by Camen, but PdL says they never existed. PdL should also know about an early folded Champion C-can, if they exist.


Bill Fernald
 
I intend to live forever!  So far, so good.  :laugh2:  :laugh2: 

#5 havlicek

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 07:25 PM

This can measures a bit over .020", Bill.

 

-john


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#6 havlicek

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Posted 10 June 2017 - 06:45 AM

An interesting thing here is that I was temporarily setting up the endbell so I could build an arm to wind as specified by the blogger this motor is for, and noticed something unusual about the endbell. Now, this will be the second time I've used an endbell from the batch I got off eBay. The first time was for the "Slotblog Motor" and it all went together just peachy. This time, I noticed that the dummy arm I had laying around and was using to align everything seemed to not sit square/straight/true or whatever when inserted into the endbell. First I figured the bushing just wasn't seated, but I checked that and it was.

So, moving into Sherlock Holmes mode, I inserted the dummy arm into the can and popped-on the endbell, and it wouldn't spin free. So I checked everything several times and got the same result. That tells me my "eyeballing" was correct and there was either something not kosher about the way the endbell was molded, or that the bushing hole had been bored out of true.  

 

To confirm what's going on, I stuck a spare Mura endbell on there and the arm spun like Peggy Fleming at the end of her gold-medal routine.  So, before I get to the arm, I have to check a different 2mm x 6mm bushing in there and if that brings me no joy, I'll have to switch the hardware over to a Mura endbell or try another of these endbells. I figure that just running the arm that's planned for this motor would likely serve to "wear-align" the endbell bushing, but this will be no ordinary arm... so it's gotta be right!


John Havlicek

#7 havlicek

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Posted 10 June 2017 - 10:24 AM

Mystery solved. The bushing was "out." First time I remember seeing that one!  Anyway, I took apart and reassembled the endbell in the process and gave everything the old spit and polish (well, polish but no spit), and all is wonderful.

IMG_2129_zpsoyvqgx8g.jpg

Oh and... the arm? Yeah, I shoulda mentioned that the order was for a #23 wire, so who am I to argue? With a fresh batch of Bugenis comms from Bill's Brooklyn Bakery, I got busy:

IMG_2130_zpsrbzbbymn.jpg

This should dim the lights in Fresno, no... make that Luxembourg.   :)


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#8 havlicek

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Posted 10 June 2017 - 10:47 AM

Oh I forgot. Resistance comes in at .017 ohms, and there's a lot of wire on there... for a #23 anyway.  :)


John Havlicek

#9 slotbaker

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Posted 10 June 2017 - 05:31 PM

Nice.

Looks like you're searching for the limit of the smoke release valve...

:shok:
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#10 havlicek

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Posted 10 June 2017 - 05:37 PM

I think we've gone past that already, Steve!   :)  

I've also been asked for a #26 double-wind (!?), but I'm going to have to get mentally prepared for that beforehand.
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