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Series championships - weighted points system?


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#1 dalek

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Posted 15 July 2017 - 10:34 AM

In an attempt to resolve ties in a series championship, does it make sense to use a points system that is weighted?
 
Example:
 
You decide that throughout the year you won't ever have more than 20 entries in a race.
 
So you use a base of 20.
 
20 times 20 is 400.
 
----------------------------------------------------------------
 
If you have a race with 20 entries, 1st place would get 400 points.
 
2nd place would get 380 points, and so on.
 
If you only had 19 entries, 1st place would get 399 points (instead of 400), 
 
2nd would get 379 points (instead of 380), and so on.
 
----------------------------------------------------------------
 
Opinions? Experience?

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#2 Justin A. Porter

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Posted 15 July 2017 - 10:55 AM

Generally speaking, what works best is to instead have a tie-breaker written into the rules that recognizes individual accomplishments (greater number of wins, better attendance, etc). 


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#3 Cap Henry

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Posted 15 July 2017 - 12:07 PM

The problem with that is the winner of a small turn-out race is "penalized."

I ran a local oval series that way, I won the first race where there were a lot of entries, the next races were all small and even though I skipped them I still held the lead.


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#4 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 15 July 2017 - 12:08 PM

I agree.

 

Tie-breakers should go to: most wins, best attendance, highest lap total, etc.


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#5 Pappy

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Posted 15 July 2017 - 12:46 PM

To much paperwork. Flip a coin or duke it out.

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#6 88honcho

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Posted 15 July 2017 - 12:47 PM

Simplest and best I've run is:

 

1 point for every lap.

 

Show up - make laps

Make laps = earn points.


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#7 Tom Thumb Hobbies

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Posted 15 July 2017 - 04:19 PM

The point per lap system works well although can be tough to administer. We did it here for years in our flexi house races. First got 20 pts, second was 17 pts, third was 15 pts, and everything else was one point difference. Plus as long as you ran at least one lap in your last stint you received 1 point per lap that you ran in the entire race. The championships were incredibly close with only 1 or 2 points separating racers at times. One year we even had a tie. This is after a minimum of 16 races. 

 

A side benefit is it gives more racers a shot at thecChampionship win clear through all the races.

 

But like I said... a ton of paperwork.

 

But then again last we did this we didn't have spreadsheets that would run on our phone either. Hummm???


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#8 88honcho

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Posted 15 July 2017 - 05:19 PM

Missed the 'point' and just made it 'tough to administer'. 20, 17, 15, then one point.

Much simpler than that.

1 point per lap. That's It! Simple addition. No weighting, no drops.

 

For this race.

Willy C. gets 321.06 points

Greg F. gets 318.09 points

.

.

.  

Bob F. gets 234.02 points

 

Add the next race to your running total.

Miss a race 'oh well.' The guy that shows up for every race can be the champ and never win a race. Guys that can win any/every week but miss one or two can still win.

Good for attendance, tracks make money, everyone can add.

Don't split a track up in to more than ten sections makes it super simple.

So what if two guys tie in one week, highly improbable there will be a tie after more than two or more races. Near impossible if you run 10 -12 races.

 

Why make it so complicated to where you need you need formulas and circular references to do the calculations.

Guys want to race and make laps not learn Excel to make sure someone else gets their point totaled correctly. 

No Spreadsheet master required just put the sheets in a binder. You know everyone that is serious will keep their own totals and the series director adds them up weekly and posts for everyone to see. Winner might have 3101.1 points at the end of ten races.

 

Driver with the most laps wins... It's so simple it is hard to explain...LOL

 

14291883_10205225894725879_4323064114762


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#9 Tom Thumb Hobbies

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Posted 15 July 2017 - 09:42 PM

Simple and to the point...


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#10 Dan Ebert

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 09:01 PM

Points by Laps will work for championships at one track.   But for traveling series with a variety of tracks it will not work.   The Penn Ohio Series and OCC both run on tracks with varying lengths and configurations.  So winning lap totals could vary as much as over 150 laps.  Example: We run Stockers on Ovals, a flat roadcourse and a Hillclimb.   But for a Track Championship, yes points by laps and sections would be the best and chances of a tie would be slim.


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#11 MSwiss

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 09:50 PM

So if a top racer has business or family commitments, and misses a few races, once he realizes he can't win the championship, does he lose interest in attending future races?

Nothing wrong with scoring a championship that way, if the point is to find the person who has the least outside distractions.
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#12 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 06:59 AM

Have a reasonable number of throw outs.
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Those who work for a living are being quickly overwhelmed by those who vote for a living.

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#13 dalek

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 12:35 PM

Out of curiousity, I tried the method of using total number of laps, suggested above.
 
I calculated the FSCS NASCAR Group-1 class, with 2 races dropped.
 
---------- 1st and 2nd place -----------
 
Points method:  
--Driver A had 2 more points than driver B
 
Total laps method:
--Driver B had 8.04 more laps than driver A
 
----------------------------------------
 
Comparing the other 20 drivers that have raced that NASCAR class, there were a few flip-flops of position, 
but at most, no driver moved more than 2 positions.
 

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#14 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 08:17 PM

I agree strongly with Dan Ebert. For a traveling series having multiple tracks, the lap system makes no sense at all. We do have a tie breaker system consisting of (off the top of my head):

1) most races attended - this awards the racer who supported the series the most.

2) most wins,

3) most podium finishes,

4) the finishing position of the last race. - Now this tie breaker does not always work because in the last race, all of racers may not have attended. So we could move back in time to when all racers attended and use that race as the final tie breaker.

 

And we are dropping 2 races from the final tally. So if someone has a personal issue and can not attend a race or 2, it will not hurt him severely.

 

Besides, we are talking mainly about the championship leader, but also 2nd and 3rd. I think it is important to remember we only need to decide who is the series championship winner, not trying to separate 4th from 5th, etc.

 

Maybe we could award the race winner with 21 pts, 2nd with 18 pts, 3rd with 16 pts, 4th with 15 pts 5th with 14 pts, etc. This would award the race winners more, but most race wins is the second tie breaker.

 

However, the current system has worked for 11 years with no complaints.


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#15 dalek

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 09:38 PM

 

However, the current system has worked for 11 years with no complaints.

 
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.  Yes, I get it.
 
However, it does make me wonder when different methods give different results.
 
The methods:
--Straight Points
--Graduated Points
--Weighted Points
--Total laps
 
I haven't tried the Graduated Points method, but the other three rank drivers differently when the same races are tested.
 
I'm curious as to which one is the best at measuring whatever it is we're trying to measure?
 
And, just a reminder, this thread is not about the FSCS in particular -- it's about any series, so all might benefit.
 

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#16 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 11:38 PM

Dale, you have 4 methods shown in your last post. If 3 of them gave the same result for 1st, 2nd and 3rd, then I would think that the odd one would not be the best one to use. 

 

I appreciate what you are trying to do. Sometimes the more simply system works best, but not always. How do we test this?


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#17 dalek

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Posted 18 July 2017 - 10:59 AM

Doc,
 
I'm inclined to call them methods now, but we can use the words method or system interchangeably.
 
I've used the results of the seven NASCAR Group-1 races the FSCS has run so far this year, to test three of the methods.
 
All three methods have resulted in different rankings of the 22 drivers.  
 
Nothing dramatic, but significant, since they flip-flop some drivers, and move a couple of drivers two positions up or down in the final ranking.
 
===== the Total Laps Method =====
If all series races are run on only one track, I believe the Total Laps method would be the most logical.  It's like one long race, broken into pieces.  
 
Personally though, I would drop some races, maybe at the rate of at least 20 percent so if a driver is only able to attend 4 out of 5 races, he's not penalized.
=================================
 
Since the Total Laps method would unduly penalize a driver if he missed a race where the lap count is typically higher than at other tracks, I won't experiment with it anymore.
 
I will continue to experiment with the other three methods until I have a better understanding of why their results differ.
 
Stay tuned.
 

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#18 kvanpelt

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Posted 18 July 2017 - 11:34 AM

If you win a race, you win the race. It shouldn't make any difference if you win by two feet or 30 laps.

 

All scoring by lap totals will do is make the winner need to administer a total beat down of everyone, every race. That will surely make those mid-pack racers want to come back to the next race.

 

We need to do everything possible to keep attendance up, not beat the back markers to a bloody pulp.

 

IMO, do away with the points!


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#19 dalek

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Posted 18 July 2017 - 05:16 PM

Is the intent, of a series championship, to rank each driver based on their ability to race a slot car compared to the other drivers?
 
I assume the answer is yes.
 
=====  Can the Attendance Parameter defeat the intent?  =====
 
What if a series uses attendance as a parameter to break a tie?
 
Joe Blow and I both have 120 points at the end of the season.
 
I attended 11 races and Joe attended 12.
 
Using the Attendance parameter, Joe will be ranked above me because he attended more races.
 
But it seems like I'm the better driver since it only took me 11 races to get the same number of points that it took Joe 12 races to get.
 
=============================================================
 
Maybe using attendance, to help determine rankings, might not be inline with the intent of a series.
 

Dale King
 
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