Jump to content




Photo

Pactra Bugatti molding?


  • Please log in to reply
16 replies to this topic

#1 fox

fox

    Backmarker

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 75 posts
  • Joined: 16-October 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Berlin, Germany

Posted 16 July 2017 - 10:12 AM

Good morning, gentlemen,
 
Has been I while since I wrote my last post, nevertheless still watching what you guys are posting...
and I love it!
 
A while ago I came around this and bought it .....
 
PacBugTemp_full.jpg
 
This thing is made of a brownish material that I guess to be Bakelite which was a quite common material back in the times which they made telephones, steering wheels, etc., of during the last century.

It has a metal base screwed on the bottom and weighs 200 g.
 
Since I always loved the Bugatti T52 I shortly afterwards got hold of one of those vac-formed Bugatti Pactra bodies.

I compared the Pactra body with this (now I call it) mold and found out that they are almost identical to all measurements, markings, lines, all numbers of grooves and vents. In fact the Pactra body is a bit larger.

In the end I discovered a number on the bottom, engraved by hand saying "126-2". Researching an old Pactra leaflet I recognized that "126" was the production number of the Pactra Bugatti body.
 
For me personally it seems clear but I would appreciate your professional comments on this.
 
Is it possible that this is an original Pactra production mold to vac-form the Bugatti bodies?
Did anyone of you see something like this before?
 
Does anyone of you know more about it than me?
 
Click the pic for bigger view, I posted graphics as a link to my server.
 
Thanks a lot,
 
Martin
Martin Fux
slotberlin.com




#2 Steve Deiters

Steve Deiters

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,842 posts
  • Joined: 28-May 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cincinnati, OH

Posted 16 July 2017 - 10:42 AM

I can't say that it is a Pactra or not, but that object has all the charecterisitics of a mold to make vacuum-formed bodies.

#3 fox

fox

    Backmarker

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 75 posts
  • Joined: 16-October 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Berlin, Germany

Posted 16 July 2017 - 10:47 AM

Thanks, Steve.
 
if my Pactra body would be unpainted (in fact it is painted blue) I would be able to put the body over the mold perfectly fine.
 
Best,
 
Martin
Martin Fux
slotberlin.com

#4 Steve Deiters

Steve Deiters

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,842 posts
  • Joined: 28-May 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cincinnati, OH

Posted 16 July 2017 - 11:10 AM

The mold may have been made for a backpour from the original body. I defer to those with experience with such things to fill in the knowledge gap.

#5 TSR

TSR

    The Dokktor is IN

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 41,500 posts
  • Joined: 02-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mexifornia

Posted 16 July 2017 - 11:14 AM

This is not a copy but one of the original molds made of Hapex epoxy, that was set on a board with seven others to make Bugattis all day long when the market cried for them.

Nice find, it is decorative and a good piece for a collector.
  • Steve Deiters likes this

#6 fox

fox

    Backmarker

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 75 posts
  • Joined: 16-October 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Berlin, Germany

Posted 16 July 2017 - 11:44 AM

Thanks PdL,
 
So I will try to make some Bugatti bodies...
Martin Fux
slotberlin.com

#7 Ramcatlarry

Ramcatlarry

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,859 posts
  • Joined: 08-March 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:St Charles, IL 60174

Posted 16 July 2017 - 01:44 PM

I would save it from the Lexan. Use it to make a new rubber mold and then a new Alumilite hard mold to vac-form from.
  • Neckcheese likes this

Larry D. Kelley, MA
retired raceway owner... (for now)
race directing around Chicago-land

USRA 2017 member #404
USSCA  member

Host 2006 ISRA/USA
Great Lakes Slot Car Club member
60+ year pin Racing rail/slot cars in America


#8 TSR

TSR

    The Dokktor is IN

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 41,500 posts
  • Joined: 02-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mexifornia

Posted 16 July 2017 - 01:57 PM

Martin,

Larry is correct: polycarbonate (Lexan) will destroy the mold. The old Lancer molds used by REH in the USA are so bad now, that most detail on the body they market is gone.

If you really want to use this old mold, use PETG, much less harmful when separating the mold from the plastic.

#9 fox

fox

    Backmarker

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 75 posts
  • Joined: 16-October 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Berlin, Germany

Posted 16 July 2017 - 03:04 PM

Thanks again, Dokk.
 
Were those molds coated or waxed (releasing agent?) when used for production back then?
Martin Fux
slotberlin.com

#10 fox

fox

    Backmarker

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 75 posts
  • Joined: 16-October 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Berlin, Germany

Posted 16 July 2017 - 03:15 PM

And thanks to Larry as well!!
  • Ramcatlarry likes this
Martin Fux
slotberlin.com

#11 Ecurie Martini

Ecurie Martini

    Ecurie Martini

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 644 posts
  • Joined: 19-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Baltimore MD

Posted 16 July 2017 - 04:50 PM

I make no claim to being a Bugattiste but have looked at a lot of photos and seen many on exhibit. The front apron of this model appears to me to be too long. Comment?
 
EM


Alan Schwartz

#12 TSR

TSR

    The Dokktor is IN

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 41,500 posts
  • Joined: 02-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mexifornia

Posted 16 July 2017 - 06:03 PM

Alan, of course it is too long, but it had to fit the "Competition" chassis (it was actually not used in a Pactra kit or RTR, only by their sister company, Competition).

cm120_1.jpg

Martin,

No, these molds were not coated with anything. In fact with the heat generated by the oven over the molds in the vacuum forming machine, no coating would survive very long!

But we were told by the all-time master of vacuum forming, Lloyd Asbury of Lancer fame, that an agent in an improperly mixed epoxy mix caused the beginning of the yellowing that shows on some butyrate bodies and not others. This yellowing does not show on Lexan bodies.

The first Lexan bodies were made by MPC in 1966, and the other companies were slow to follow. In fact, Lancer made very few Lexan bodies compared to the millions they produced in butyrate.

If you are to use this old mold, you should also note that the resin epoxy in which they were made is not always stable, and I personally witnessed a mold that broke in several pieces as the machine pushed the formed material from the mold. So be careful!  :)


  • tonyp likes this

#13 Ecurie Martini

Ecurie Martini

    Ecurie Martini

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 644 posts
  • Joined: 19-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Baltimore MD

Posted 16 July 2017 - 10:09 PM

Thanks, Philippe - and now, having seen the complete model, I am forced to observe that it sins at both ends - the front apron and the absurd rear wheels!
 
EM
Alan Schwartz

#14 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,382 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 16 July 2017 - 10:32 PM

it sins at both ends


Legend has it, Pactra was required to stack up the boxes in Catholic confessionals, to first receive absolution, before they could be shipped to the public. LOL.


  • SlotStox#53 likes this

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#15 Ramcatlarry

Ramcatlarry

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,859 posts
  • Joined: 08-March 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:St Charles, IL 60174

Posted 16 July 2017 - 11:24 PM

Look up 'pendleracing.co.uk' for Penelope Pitlane frames to fit the body and proper wheels and tires - and other similar era kits like the blower Bentley.


Larry D. Kelley, MA
retired raceway owner... (for now)
race directing around Chicago-land

USRA 2017 member #404
USSCA  member

Host 2006 ISRA/USA
Great Lakes Slot Car Club member
60+ year pin Racing rail/slot cars in America


#16 TSR

TSR

    The Dokktor is IN

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 41,500 posts
  • Joined: 02-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mexifornia

Posted 17 July 2017 - 04:02 PM

Larry, they are all 1/32 scale. The longest would not be suitable unless you solder extensions in the center pieces once split... :)
Old Pactra and Competition chassis are all over eBay for cheap.

 

Alan, you did not expect the Competition RTR model to be exacting scale, did you?  :laugh2:

 


  • SlotStox#53 likes this

#17 Ecurie Martini

Ecurie Martini

    Ecurie Martini

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 644 posts
  • Joined: 19-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Baltimore MD

Posted 22 July 2017 - 11:35 PM

Alan, you did not expect the Competition RTR model to be exacting scale, did you?  :laugh2:

 
When I was in graduate school (middle of the last century), my major professor's response to an argument that I put forth was "You have an excellent 18th century mind."
 
I'm with the late Rocky Russo on this - control wheelbase, track and tire width and forget the rest of the rules - they won't make any difference (An overstatement certainly but closer to right than wrong).
 
EM
Alan Schwartz





Electric Dreams Online Shop