Jump to content




Photo

Is it time for a body rule change?


  • Please log in to reply
23 replies to this topic

#1 raisin27

raisin27

    On The Lead Lap

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 366 posts
  • Joined: 11-March 13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Garden City, MI

Posted 23 July 2017 - 02:23 PM

At the last IRRA premier race I attended the body on one of my cars did not pass tech. One side of my Parma TI22 was almost .002" too thin. I just assume Parma  body's are of proper thickness and don't normally even check this. 

 

 My first thought was this was a fluke and I taped the side with some clear tape in order to pass. After getting home I checked my stash of about 20 Parma .010 Ti22's and found only 4 that met the minimum thickness rule (one side is usually thinner than the other).

 

At the non premier races this is very seldom if ever even checked unless you are using an Outasight body so this has not been an issue before.

 

I think maybe we should change the body side thickness rule to .005 which is what many of my Parma body's read. I don't think we should have to buy 5 body's to get one if the rule is to be strictly enforced.

 

I understand the reasons that the IRRA does not want super thin bodies, but I also think we have to use what is available to us.

 

Changing the rule to be a .010 body with a min side of .005 I feel is a reasonable compromise.


  • Pablo, A. J. Hoyt and NSwanberg like this

Michael Garrett

 

Proud to drive an American car, from an American manufacturer, assembled by American workers.

 

 I own a car from each of the big 3, I have a Ford, a Mercury, and a Lincoln.





#2 Pablo

Pablo

    Builder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,576 posts
  • Joined: 20-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Johnson Bayou

Posted 23 July 2017 - 02:28 PM

That's really weird; Parma bodies have always been uniform and legal thickness.

My opinion is, I agree with you, IRRA® needs to be pro-active on this.

I'd also send the bodies back to Parma and ask for a refund.


Paul Wolcott

#3 Half Fast

Half Fast

    Keeper Of Odd Knowledge

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,723 posts
  • Joined: 02-May 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NYC, Long Island

Posted 23 July 2017 - 02:39 PM

Nope

 

Cheers


  • JerseyJohn and Samiam like this

Bill Botjer

Faster then, wiser now

 

 


#4 JerseyJohn

JerseyJohn

    Posting Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,827 posts
  • Joined: 05-September 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Northern NJ

Posted 23 July 2017 - 03:00 PM

Thats funny at our recent Retro East  races Parma, and OS for that matter didnt seem to have any issues. 


  • Half Fast likes this
JJ TRADE MARK BANNER copy.jpg

John Chas Molnar

"Certified Newark Wise Guy since 1984" (retired)
"Certified Tony P Chassis God since 2007"
" Internationally Know Slot Car Racing Celebrity "
https://www.facebook...nchassisworks/#
Email me
 


#5 Brinkley47

Brinkley47

    A winner is a loser who gave it one more try

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 690 posts
  • Joined: 18-August 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Murfreesboro, TN

Posted 23 July 2017 - 03:33 PM

I have had to add tape to both. It was quick and easy. I don't think there is a need for a change.
Will Brinkley
willbrinkley@gmail.com

#6 Tex

Tex

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,857 posts
  • Joined: 07-July 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denton, TX

Posted 23 July 2017 - 03:45 PM

no need for a rule change. your problem is with Parma, not the IRRA; send your illegal bodies back to Parma.


Richard L. Hofer

Remember, two wrongs don't make a right... but three lefts do! Only you're a block over and a block behind.

#7 Noose

Noose

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,890 posts
  • Joined: 08-November 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denville, NJ

Posted 23 July 2017 - 03:51 PM

I'd send them back. I measure bodies at just about every race and have found an occasional thinner side on Ti22s and Lola GTs. These were .006 and just under. The nose measurements were all legal.

I have a large Stock here too and just measured 10 Ti22s and all ok. Same with 6 Lolas.

No need IMO to change the rules at all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  • JerseyJohn and DOCinCocoa like this

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"

"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#8 Pablo

Pablo

    Builder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,576 posts
  • Joined: 20-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Johnson Bayou

Posted 23 July 2017 - 03:55 PM

Tex, how can a body be on the IRRA® approved body list and it not be an IRRA® problem?

I've had this argument with Greg Wells and he disagrees with my logic also.

So I fully realize many will disagree with me. :)  It's OK.

 

I look at it from the eyes of a newbie. He studies the rules, buys an IRRA® approved body, goes to tech, and fails.

The tech inspector says "hey, it's not an IRRA® problem".

 

I would suggest IRRA® stop "approving" bodies just as they did years ago with chassis.


Paul Wolcott

#9 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,268 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 23 July 2017 - 04:09 PM

I would suggest IRRA® stop "approving" bodies just as they did years ago with chassis.

We are not approving / guaranteeing the thickness will be correct.

 

We are approving the shape.

 

It's up to the body company to get the thickness right.

 

How could we not have an approved body list?


  • tonyp, Half Fast, Terry and 1 other like this

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#10 slotbaker

slotbaker

    Dan Gurney Fan

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,282 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sydney, Australia.

Posted 23 July 2017 - 04:43 PM

An observation, if I may, from an interested Retro fan.

 

I believe that one of the considerations for having the 0.010" minimum side thickness was to make the car easier to marshal.

Soft, flimsy sides can make the car a bit 'slippery' to get a good hold of in a hurry.

 

One of our faster Retro racers actually adds a strip of non-slip tape on each side of his car to help marshals re-slot his car quicker.

:huh:


  • Half Fast likes this

Steve King


#11 raisin27

raisin27

    On The Lead Lap

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 366 posts
  • Joined: 11-March 13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Garden City, MI

Posted 23 July 2017 - 04:49 PM

Tex,

 

I never thought I had any problem with the IRRA, just made an observation and a suggestion.

 

I would be curious to know if anyone else has been measuring their bodies and what they have found.


Michael Garrett

 

Proud to drive an American car, from an American manufacturer, assembled by American workers.

 

 I own a car from each of the big 3, I have a Ford, a Mercury, and a Lincoln.


#12 Noose

Noose

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,890 posts
  • Joined: 08-November 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denville, NJ

Posted 23 July 2017 - 04:49 PM

There were some issues some time ago with VFC Chargers being thin. Turns out the wrong plastic was used. They replaced all.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"

"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#13 Samiam

Samiam

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,196 posts
  • Joined: 18-January 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Long Island, NY

Posted 23 July 2017 - 05:05 PM

If you are painting the bodies yourself , just blow some extra paint on the thin side. Or a strip of 3M Magic tape in the right place. 

 

Easy peasy lemon squeezy.


  • DOCinCocoa likes this
Sam Levitch
 
"If you have integrity, nothing else matters, and if you do not have integrity, nothing else matters."
     Robert Mueller, special counsel (2013)

#14 Tex

Tex

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,857 posts
  • Joined: 07-July 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denton, TX

Posted 23 July 2017 - 05:11 PM

Tex, how can a body be on the IRRA® approved body list and it not be an IRRA® problem?

 

Because the IRRA didin't manufacture the bodies.


  • Terry likes this
Richard L. Hofer

Remember, two wrongs don't make a right... but three lefts do! Only you're a block over and a block behind.

#15 Pablo

Pablo

    Builder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,576 posts
  • Joined: 20-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Johnson Bayou

Posted 23 July 2017 - 05:22 PM

We are not approving / guaranteeing the thickness will be correct.

 

We are approving the shape.

 

It's up to the body company to get the thickness right.

 

How could we not have an approved body list?

Excellent points, Mike, and of course I agree.

I propose a compromise - a simple disclaimer on the IRRA® approved body list:

"Note: IRRA® approved body list does not guarantee or imply legality of bodies with regard to minimum thickness rules".

 

I'll shut up now and retreat to my vintage cave :)


Paul Wolcott

#16 Dominator

Dominator

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,902 posts
  • Joined: 19-September 07
  • Gender:Male

Posted 23 July 2017 - 07:22 PM

At Palooza between the 4 premiere classes I only noticed maybe 2 or 3 cars get bounced because of bodies. I don't remember what brand but the racers fixed them with no problem.

At the end of the day it's the racers responsibility to bring a legal car to tech. Yup, measuring bodies is a PIA but so isn't having to make sure all chassis parts are square before assembling. Its all part of the game.
  • Tex, Noose, Half Fast and 3 others like this

A motor is only as fast as the chassis it's in.
 
Dominic Luongo

Like Dominator Custom Chassis on Facebook

 

NERR photos from 2012-April 2016
NERR photos from 2016 to now


#17 willy wonka

willy wonka

    Race Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 567 posts
  • Joined: 18-January 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NE OH

Posted 23 July 2017 - 08:00 PM

I think it has to be .7 on the sides correct? If ur measuring clear bodies maybe that's why? Try measuring a few painted and see what u come up with?
  • Dan Ebert likes this
William Custer
To finish First you must first Finish

#18 Dominator

Dominator

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,902 posts
  • Joined: 19-September 07
  • Gender:Male

Posted 23 July 2017 - 08:20 PM

.007 on side for coupe, can am, and F1. .010 on the nose.

A motor is only as fast as the chassis it's in.
 
Dominic Luongo

Like Dominator Custom Chassis on Facebook

 

NERR photos from 2012-April 2016
NERR photos from 2016 to now


#19 Samiam

Samiam

    Posting Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,196 posts
  • Joined: 18-January 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Long Island, NY

Posted 23 July 2017 - 08:55 PM

Look here:

http://irraslotracing.com/id57.html


Sam Levitch
 
"If you have integrity, nothing else matters, and if you do not have integrity, nothing else matters."
     Robert Mueller, special counsel (2013)

#20 gc4895

gc4895

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 297 posts
  • Joined: 04-March 16
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Walnut Creek, CA

Posted 23 July 2017 - 09:46 PM

Why not just use Red Fox bodies? That's what I do.
Mark Bauer

#21 old & gray

old & gray

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 417 posts
  • Joined: 15-April 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:CT

Posted 23 July 2017 - 10:42 PM

First I would like to say I applaud the IRRA® rule requiring .010 Lexan be used to form bodies (other than stock cars). I am glad that there was not a race to the “thinnest and lightest” in a trade of durability for speed.

 

As the rule currently stands IRRA® approves the form of the body and specifies the thickness of the material. They have done so allowing for production tolerances. The alternative of having “approved” bodies is quite simple: manufacturers make the bodies, ship them to the board specified inspector, the inspector verifies the bodies meet specification and ships them to the distributors, etc. Now cue the screams of shortages, the wails of the cost increase (value added for the quality guarantee and shipping), and the stories of the backdoor supplies of “special” bodies. My personal vote is “no thank you.”

 

My question is: the rule reads “…using tape that must cover the entire side from wheel well to wheel well.” How high does the tape need to be? For the record, taping the side of the body to meet thickness is my third choice for a course action.


  • Half Fast likes this
Bob Schlain

#22 Noose

Noose

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,890 posts
  • Joined: 08-November 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denville, NJ

Posted 24 July 2017 - 05:54 AM

Some history here folks.  The current body thickness rules were put in place reducing the thickness due to manufacturing tolerances.  We worked the manufacturers to achieve these agreed upon measurements and the points of measurement.  All bodies submitted for approval are checked clear.

 

As Dom noted, 192 entries were checked at Retro Palooza and very few failed.  Those that did used the tape from wheel to wheel and up the entire side of the body to pass.

 

As far as I am concerned this is non-issue overall.


  • Tex, tonyp, Half Fast and 3 others like this

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"

"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#23 John Streisguth

John Streisguth

    Johnny VW

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,702 posts
  • Joined: 20-November 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bangor, PA

Posted 24 July 2017 - 06:16 AM

My opinion: if you reduce the thickness spec, people will actually start looking for the thinner bodies.  Nobody seems to have an issue putting some tape on, it really seems to be a non-issue for most racers.


  • tonyp, Half Fast, JerseyJohn and 3 others like this
"Whatever..."

#24 FSK

FSK

    Mid-Pack Racer

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 128 posts
  • Joined: 13-April 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Elyria, OH

Posted 24 July 2017 - 07:18 AM

Good morning all. Rasin if you wish to return the bodies please send them back to Parma ,to me. I will send you new ones. We at Parma do try to make them all in spec. But, if I don't do the set up, not sure what body was put on with that one. If a real tail body  [like 70526]  was next to the TI22 one side maybe thin. Very sorry for this problem. I usually run retro bodies with each other to control thickness again sorry, Stuff happens  Steve Koepp


  • slotbaker, Pablo, Tex and 12 others like this

Steve Koepp






Electric Dreams Online Shop