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2017 Shinoda Reunion - Dec 16, Lincoln Park, MI


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#26 Eliot

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Posted 29 July 2017 - 09:41 PM

That is 100% spot on. Jairus.  The goal is to make everything look period correct, so yes, rewinds are more than OK, magnet updates, etc... totally fine!
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#27 Jairus

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 09:13 AM

Made a lot of progress Saturday on an entry for this race.  B:) 

IMG_4161proof-vi.jpg
 
IMG_4162proof-vi.jpg
 
Yup, it's a Detroit Slider using an R-Geo reproduction front tongue and Dynamic 557 Motor bracket.

Motor will be a 26D with rewound and balanced arm, Champion magnet shim and, hopefully this one will survive the race.
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#28 Gene/ZR1

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 09:49 AM

Eliot,

 

I don't know the Retro chassis widths, but just giving a heads up.

 

Shinoda bodies for the most part (98%) are 3" inches in width some <less, Two bodies were 3-1/4" wide (1969-70}), plus one other at 3-1/4 that tapers (pre 1968). The Shinoda bodies most likely not fit the Retro type chassis as a drop on and may require timely chassis modifications. Some Shinoda bodies the sides are not parallel or are curved.

 

If anyone wants to know dimensions of a specific Shinoda body before they require one, I can provide the dimensions.

 

Also the 4" to 4-1/2" wheelbase rule  should be dropped in the -1968 original class, since Shinoda body wheel bases will range from 3-1/2" to 4-1/2", and in between. Wheelbase was never an issue.

 

What is a  padlock (open can) motor prior to 1967-'68? Example like a Pittman DC85?

 

Thanks,

 

G


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#29 Jairus

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 02:29 PM

Slider is done!

 

Now to hang the goodies on the frame and see that I made the minimum weight rule.

IMG_4164proof-vi.jpg

 

 

IMG_4163proof-vi.jpg


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#30 Eliot

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 05:33 PM

Eliot,

 

I don't know the Retro chassis widths, but just giving a heads up.

 

Shinoda bodies for the most part (98%) are 3" inches in width some <less, Two bodies were 3-1/4" wide (1969-70}), plus one other at 3-1/4 that tapers (pre 1968). The Shinoda bodies most likely not fit the Retro type chassis as a drop on and may require timely chassis modifications. Some Shinoda bodies the sides are not parallel or are curved.

 

If anyone wants to know dimensions of a specific Shinoda body before they require one, I can provide the dimensions.

 

Also the 4" to 4-1/2" wheelbase rule  should be dropped in the -1968 original class, since Shinoda body wheel bases will range from 3-1/2" to 4-1/2", and in between. Wheelbase was never an issue.

 

What is a  padlock (open can) motor prior to 1967-'68? Example like a Pittman DC85?

 

Thanks,

 

G

 

Very good points!  I know some of your bodies do fit directly over the retro chassis since I have tested it a bit (the grand prix is a good option with that, as well as the mongoose, etc..).  If you have the width that would be awesome to post up and add into the rules.  You do make a valid point about length, so I will remove that, very good call there!  

As for the padlock motor question, I am not sure, that would probably be one that Jairus would know though.  

 


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#31 Jairus

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 06:03 PM

All padlock motors were gone off the market by '67.  I was just suggesting that the DC 65A and X motors and others were still pretty hot at the end of 1965 and should be included.

Also, I forgot to add the Mura A can motor.  That should be included as a 16d since they fit the period and are same size.

But.... it's all for fun and no need to get a lawyer to write rules.... right?  :D


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#32 TSR

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 06:51 PM

If one considers that 1968 is a year of capital change in slot car motor technology, with the Mura and Champion can motors now on the market and the Mabuchi on their way out, these "new" motors should be allowed, and while the "larger" ("36D") brushes were still a year away, just to keep everything together, they should also be allowed.

After all, by 1968, most of the motors used in those "Detroit Sliders" were Dyna-Rewind units based on the Mabuchi FT16D and FT26 cans fitted with Dyna's own magnets and black silicone steel shims. Also on the market were Dyna "D-size" motors based on the Tradeship can of the same basic size as the Mura "D-size" motor, with dark-gray Mura endbells (no "pent roof" brush-holder retainers however...).

In the day and before 1969, there were also very few hand built slot cars with a can-side driven motor, and that would mostly be Igarashi/Strombecker TC based motors, because it would complicate construction and there were plenty of Russkit and Champion inline motor brackets that made construction very easy.

The only other motor types still used when Larry Shinoda got involved were the Pittman DC196 and the small Tyco sidewinder job.

As far as the chassis design, If I may make a suggestion, if a chassis different in style from the typical Detroit inline "slider" with a Dynamic inline mount, such as a 1968 anglewinder  "pro-racing" chassis is going to be built for this event, any "modern" design features such as  a center chassis hinge should not be allowed, and only chassis made of steel or brass wire with brass pans and drop arms, with side-pan hinges should be legal. And, if built with a so-called "plumber" arrangement, that hinge should be located BEHIND the front axle.

Personally I would only allow chassis built with a Dynamic inline mount... :)

Tire sizes should also not be smaller that 13/16" rears and 3/4" fronts.

Just suggestions to shorten the regulations...


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#33 Jairus

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 07:25 PM

All good info Philippe. :good:


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#34 Eliot

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 07:45 PM

If one considers that 1968 is a year of capital change in slot car motor technology, with the Mura and Champion can motors now on the market and the Mabuchi on their way out, these "new" motors should be allowed, and while the "larger" ("36D") brushes were still a year away, just to keep everything together, they should also be allowed.

After all, by 1968, most of the motors used in those "Detroit Sliders" were Dyna-Rewind units based on the Mabuchi FT16D and FT26 cans fitted with Dyna's own magnets and black silicone steel shims. Also on the market were Dyna "D-size" motors based on the Tradeship can of the same basic size as the Mura "D-size" motor, with dark-gray Mura endbells (no "pent roof" brush-holder retainers however...).

In the day and before 1969, there were also very few hand built slot cars with a can-side driven motor, and that would mostly be Igarashi/Strombecker TC based motors, because it would complicate construction and there were plenty of Russkit and Champion inline motor brackets that made construction very easy.

The only other motor types still used when Larry Shinoda got involved were the Pittman DC196 and the small Tyco sidewinder job.

As far as the chassis design, If I may make a suggestion, if a chassis different in style from the typical Detroit inline "slider" with a Dynamic inline mount, such as a 1968 anglewinder  "pro-racing" chassis is going to be built for this event, any "modern" design features such as  a center chassis hinge should not be allowed, and only chassis made of steel or brass wire with brass pans and drop arms, with side-pan hinges should be legal. And, if built with a so-called "plumber" arrangement, that hinge should be located BEHIND the front axle.

Personally I would only allow chassis built with a Dynamic inline mount... :)

Tire sizes should also not be smaller that 13/16" rears and 3/4" fronts.

Just suggestions to shorten the regulations...

Very good history lesson, as always! 

As for the rules, I am fine with how they are.  The problem I have with the dynamic inline mount only deal is that the real one I was showing you was built in 67, and it does not have a dynamic mount, which would ultimately make a replica of that car illegal.  I don't want to make the rules any more complicated, but I will say that in future years, a dynamic challenge may happen for the reunion, but thats way far down the road!  The tire size on the back though, that I need to think about because that is not defined.  the front I'm not as worried about, but I for sure do not want a car thats 1mm off the ground in the period class.  It's good stuff to think about though!


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#35 Jairus

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 07:55 PM

Great response Eliot!
Thingies didn't have very many rules and the fewer the better even today.
Some ran with 1/2" front wheels.  Some ran with only a ball bearing race on the front axle!  Crazy no?
 


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#36 Gene/ZR1

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 07:56 PM

Just a recap;

Last year 2016 Shinoda reunion was great, the racers wanted a night out on the town at the track and to live the past as they were young again. Everybody was down to earth with there prize race cars from years past and collections to show and stories that needed to be told.

Some brought many ready to runs, Manta Ray, Gar-Vic, Cox, you name it and they were carefully restored. Just plain enjoyable to hold and look at and old Shinoda race cars to.

No one was questioning or examining every gear,motor, body, ect. for period correct items, they came to have fun, something that is lost do to extreme regulations and rules.

As far as the race, hey! we all raced and had a great time, I really do not think anyone was out for the first place spot.

 

It's suppose to be a reunion of racers to remember Larry Shinoda and his talented gift to slot cars in the 1968 time era.

 

I am coming with my cars planning on having another great race night even if all my period correct cars are rejected, I will just marshal and listened to the great stories.

 

Many thanks to Eliot for his devoted time and effort, as he has done a great job.

 

again; Downriver Speedway & Hobby Shop is a very clean and friendly place to race. Tracks are well maintained.

 

G;  


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#37 Eliot

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 08:03 PM

Just a recap;

Last year 2016 Shinoda reunion was great, the racers wanted a night out on the town at the track and to live the past as they were young again. Everybody was down to earth with there prize race cars from years past and collections to show and stories that needed to be told.

Some brought many ready to runs, Manta Ray, Gar-Vic, Cox, you name it and they were carefully restored. Just plain enjoyable to hold and look at and old Shinoda race cars to.

No one was questioning or examining every gear,motor, body, ect. for period correct items, they came to have fun, something that is lost do to extreme regulations and rules.

As far as the race, hey! we all raced and had a great time, I really do not think anyone was out for the first place spot.

 

It's suppose to be a reunion of racers to remember Larry Shinoda and his talented gift to slot cars in the 1968 time era.

 

I am coming with my cars planning on having another great race night even if all my period correct cars are rejected, I will just marshal and listened to the great stories.

 

Many thanks to Eliot for his devoted time and effort, as he has done a great job.

 

again; Downriver Speedway & Hobby Shop is a very clean and friendly place to race. Tracks are well maintained.

 

G;  

Your cars will be fine Gene, I mean of everyone you should get the period correct award since everyone had a new controller besides you!  The only reason for the rules is to make sure that everyone is within the theme, and so it gives an outline.  It's a lot harder than I thought, but I will be working on ironing them out.  I've seen your threads, and your cars will be fine!  I appreciate the kind words!


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#38 Gene/ZR1

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 08:11 PM

Great response Eliot!
Thingies didn't have very many rules and the fewer the better even today.
Some ran with 1/2" front wheels.  Some ran with only a ball bearing race on the front axle!  Crazy no?
 

Jarius

I have used 3\8" Perfect airplane rear wheels, on the front back then, peel the chubby tire off and slip on 2 tiny o-rings for skins, just drill the hub out for a 1\16" front axle. 

 I have be on E-pray looking for some.


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#39 Gene/ZR1

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 08:15 PM

Your cars will be fine Gene, I mean of everyone you should get the period correct award since everyone had a new controller besides you!  The only reason for the rules is to make sure that everyone is within the theme, and so it gives an outline.  It's a lot harder than I thought, but I will be working on ironing them out.  I've seen your threads, and your cars will be fine!  I appreciate the kind words!

Eliot

Yours rules are fair as listed.


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#40 Gator Bob

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 04:05 PM

Will the drivers rotate with one car or do the proxy cars rotate lanes and drivers stay with a lane?


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#41 Eliot

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 09:41 PM

Will the drivers rotate with one car or do the proxy cars rotate lanes and drivers stay with a lane?


The drivers will rotate with one car. The reasoning behind that is we do have a fair amount of people that either travel, or are locals and racing their own cars. I think it works out better that way!
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#42 don.siegel

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 10:49 AM

For us proxy candidates, where and when do we ship the cars? 

 

Don 


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#43 Eliot

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 10:52 PM

PM me, and I will give you the address, and the rule I have is that the cars arrive two weeks or earlier in regards to the race.
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#44 Maximo

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 08:14 AM

Since this event is still over three months away, I wonder if the organizers can set-up a live web cam for an overview of the event in progress? It doesn't have to track the races close-up but could watch over the activity for a feeling on being there.

 

This would be great to "be there" for those of us who can't attend the event.

 

 

-maXimo


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#45 Eliot

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 08:56 PM

Since this event is still over three months away, I wonder if the organizers can set-up a live web cam for an overview of the event in progress? It doesn't have to track the races close-up but could watch over the activity for a feeling on being there.

 

This would be great to "be there" for those of us who can't attend the event.

 

 

-maXimo

I've been thinking about how to do this, if anything it would be over facebook, but I'll see what I can do!


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#46 Jim Lange

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 12:34 PM

I am interested in building a couple cars for this. How do the drivers of the proxy cars choose there ride? Is it pre arranged? Also on a 36D, is late model brush hoods allowed? How will the track be prepped and at what voltage? 


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#47 Eliot

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 06:20 PM

I am interested in building a couple cars for this. How do the drivers of the proxy cars choose there ride? Is it pre arranged? Also on a 36D, is late model brush hoods allowed? How will the track be prepped and at what voltage? 

Good questions.  So we have a fantastic scene of local racers, of which I am pre selecting people to run proxy cars.  If you have someone who is local that you want to run your car, thats also doable, but its pre-arranged, thats why there is the two week minimum in advance of proxy cars showing up, so the drivers can test, and get used to the cars.  on a 36d, thats fine with me.  My plan is to clean the track in advance, but I will check in advance on that one for you to make sure we actually are able to (I'll have that update either tomorrow night, or this upcoming week).  The voltage, we run the lowest setting, so its around 13 volts.  


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#48 Jim Lange

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 03:10 PM

To clarify, vintage motors are any 16D, 26D, 36D or padlock (open can) motor prior to 1967-'68.  

No C or B can motors allowed.
No Deathstar, Pro Slot, FK, or Strap motor allowed.

Rewinds are okay if the can and magnets are from that early period.

Am I right, E?

What about modifications to the endbell like shunts, conventional brush hoods and advanced or retarded timing on the hoods?



#49 Jim Lange

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 03:12 PM

I now see you answered my questions, Thanks


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#50 Eliot

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 11:17 PM

What about modifications to the endbell like shunts, conventional brush hoods and advanced or retarded timing on the hoods?

modifications like that are legal in the 66-68 class, but in the second class, its just dropping the spec motors in and racing


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