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How to solder leadwires to internal guide clips?


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#1 Pontes1

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 05:57 AM

This is sometimes something hard to perform. How you guys do it? 

Normally racers use lead wires that they solder direct above the flag (this is easy). However using the lead wire internaly on the guide soldered to the clip sometimes is complicated to not destroy the guide with the soldering iron...

Can you share good ways of doing that?

Thanks.
Fernando Pontes




#2 dalek

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 07:56 AM

I assume the attached pics are how you are wanting to solder the wires on.
 
I tin the clips (thin layer of solder) and tin the wires then put the wires in place and touch the iron to the wire.
 
You can see that the plastic melts a little bit but no enough to cause a problem.
 
BTW: I prefer to solder the wires on top of the clips but this is my JK Indy car and if the wires are on top, the front of the body gets pushed up when the guide turns.
 
IMG_2135 copy.jpg

IMG_2138 copy.jpg
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#3 Fast Freddie

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 09:47 AM

Dale,

Try using "California Loops." I use them on my Indy cars and have used the same wire for three years with no breakage. 

I use the same chassis you use and I also use the JK Indy 7 with the same results. Absolutely no interference with the body. 

I also use full braid clips but I flatten the exposed wire strands before I tin them. They sit flat on the clip.
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#4 Gator Bob

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 05:16 PM

Yo no se' 

 

:heat:  por qué la guía del derretimiento

 

A solid connection can be made with out all that fuss (and fumes).

 

Step by step

 

1- Skip the Clip  

2- Strip wire 3/8", twist insulation off the same direction of the lay of the strands.

3 -Tin approximately first 1/16"

4 - Partially flatten that tinned section with the non-serrated section of your pliers

5 - Slide that into the slot until the insulation bottoms out.

6 - Bend the exposed portion of the wire up out of the way

7 - Insert braid

8 - Trim wire flush with guide/braid union point. (Note- Flush 'sidecutter' (dykes) work best

9- At this point you can solder the wire and braid together but it is really not necessary unless you find the braid pops out in a wreck.

 

:good: más fácil hacer que dicho


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#5 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 06:38 PM

Soak the guide with naphtha then solder. Evaporation keeps everything cool

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#6 Gator Bob

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 06:44 PM

¿de verdad?

doh.gifAlgo no suena bien en hacer esa combinación


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#7 Bill from NH

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 07:09 PM

I tape the bottom legs of the clip to a tech block so they don't move around, & solder the leadwires to the top legs of the clip. I've been known to make special clips to keep leadwire ends beside the guide.


Bill Fernald

 

You have to be odd to be #1. :laugh2: 


#8 Gator Bob

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Posted 29 July 2017 - 12:41 AM

See here also - http://slotblog.net/...dy/#entry420682

 

;

no solder lead wire.JPG


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#9 Fast Freddie

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Posted 29 July 2017 - 05:11 PM

Technically you don't even need to solder the wire or use clips. I used to run my Intl 15 and Gp12 cars without solder and clips. 

Just strip about 1/2 inch of insulation and twist in the direction of the wire twist. Feed the bare end from the slot side of the guide flag through the guide until about half comes out the front of the clip slot.  Now untwist the bare wire and bend it up so you can install a new braid. Use care when installing the braid because it may push some of the wire back out of the slot; try to hold it firm. Do that to both sides. 

Then clip all but about 1/4 inch of bare wire and bend it backwards to lay flat across the guide, use care to keep the wire strands from each side separate; we don't want shorts. 

Now coat the bare wire with fingernail polish, I use black but any color will work. I use about 3-4 coats and never broke a wire doing it this way.
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#10 Bill from NH

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Posted 29 July 2017 - 09:10 PM

Roman posted the above procedure on OWH during the late '90s. He called it "Lazy Man's way of doing leadwire" or something similar. I haven't seen Roman on any of the slot car boards since the first of the year. Any idea what's up with him?


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You have to be odd to be #1. :laugh2: 


#11 MSwiss

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Posted 29 July 2017 - 10:32 PM

I vaguely remember pitting a car that was guide clipless, and didn't think the braid retention was very good.

 

The local racer who spearheads wing racing in this area, Michael Iga, uses it on his cars.

 

I'll have to check it out, to see how well it works on his setup.


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#12 Gator Bob

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Posted 29 July 2017 - 10:57 PM

These help retention:

 

1- double back/Z fold the crimped braid tab to tighten it up

2- or as shown in the picture above where the top of the tab was cut off as well as the wire.

3 - tin the wire heavy, flatten that, insert wire, insert brush. see the one in the link it's pretty fool proof.

3a -  leave the rosin core rosin on the wire and hit the long flat wire/braid joint with the iron hot and fast. I didn't do that on Nick's "Storm Trooper" so he could change the braid without an iron. Or heat stress the flag.

4 - Liquid tape in a bottle works to hold it together.


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#13 Pablo

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 06:37 AM

What do you do in a big race where you take a wallshot and break the flag?

With standard clips, it's easy to swap a flag.


Paul Wolcott

#14 Gator Bob

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 09:05 AM

Probably park it. The day rarely gets much better

 

The procedure was tested in a 1989-1991 season run, two enduro races in FL without failure and Nick didn't have any issues over a whole season. 

 As crappy as I drive slots I've never broken a flag.

Popped a nut off some FCRs with Parma white but never broke a Stardust, Slick7, Parma or JK graphite.

 

it's still field repairable if there was some of a service length of wire but would not be as fast as a change out with clips but there is close to zero chance of the wire itself breaking.

 

I learned to do this when I had a breaking a wire party two races in a row. BITD in Challenge Cup.


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#15 Gator Bob

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 01:41 PM

StarDate 1990 - after losing the points lead in Outlaw Flexi due to two weeks of broken leads I went to this set up.

Finished second in the points. "It's all how you look at it."

 

Later.... learned to use the correct two sizes of shrink tubing and put it over the clip as well.

"Live'n Learn"  Hmmm, that reminds me to re-fresh that car.

 

 IMG_5183.JPG


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#16 Fast Freddie

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Posted 01 August 2017 - 10:08 AM

Mike, the wires never break and contact may even be better since the braid contacts the wire directly with no clip in between. It may even be a lighter set up.

 

Paul, I wouldn't know what to do if I broke a guide flag, I never broke a guide flag and I've hit plenty walls very hard over the last 30 years. I use to have spare guide flag set-ups ready to go if it ever happened. Never had to use them.


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#17 Cheater

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Posted 01 August 2017 - 10:21 AM

Fred, I don't doubt your claim but it's really hard to believe you never broke a single guide flag...

 

With that kind of luck I'd be a regular buyer of lottery tickets!


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Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#18 Pablo

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Posted 01 August 2017 - 12:05 PM

Here's my story - Oval track racing, at the start I had my controller mashed.

Amidst the confusion and noise, Ms. Shirley accidentally hit the "Start" key and my car went full bore into the wall.

Split the front of the flag open. They restarted the race while I went to the pits.

What should have been a simple flag swap turned into a goat rodeo because I had one of those funky "wire in the slot" setups.

If I'd had standard clips it would have been easy. Never again.

 

The car was so fast I still ended up on the podium. With clips I would have won.

I realize some situations require a low profile wire entry, but if possible I avoid them.


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#19 Gator Bob

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Posted 01 August 2017 - 12:48 PM

But... if you I consider statistics over a freak occurrences

My stats are - more wires than flags.

 

The OP was about the slot entry procedure. Guide (and body) clips 'rule' like... zippers.

 

I would think more guides would break soldering through the slot.


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#20 MSwiss

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Posted 01 August 2017 - 01:22 PM

You nailed it on the head, Pablo. Don't do it unless 100% necessary for clearances considerations. Especially on scale and Retro cars.
 
Using any kind of loop set-up, it's virtually impossible to break a lead wire.
 
I think my Hardbody car has the same lead wire and solder job, since I built it about four years ago.
 
That said, the loops, with wing cars, and their minimal structure, are a little trickier/more effort to do, but can be done, especially if you leave the pans in.
 
20170801_132105-1.jpg

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#21 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 01 August 2017 - 01:34 PM

I think I've broken one guide flag since I restarted in 2009.

It was a rider on the flat track racing Open 12.

Those who work for a living are being quickly overwhelmed by those who vote for a living.

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#22 Fast Freddie

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Posted 01 August 2017 - 03:43 PM

Greg, never broke a single guide flag. Broke axles, bent rims, bent chassis, had uprights knocked out, had bodies torn off the chassis, but no broken guide flags. 

In fact probably one of the hardest hits I've had in a head-on, with a Flexi type chassis, happened at this year's 1100 in the Indy race. I hit someone so hard under the bridge that it bent the guide tongue down about 15-20 degrees and put two fairly deep grooves in the guide flag but it didn't break. I later realized that it also bent the main rails of the chassis were bowed up about 1/8 inch and not flat like they should be.
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#23 Gator Bob

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 11:46 AM

Since the post drifted to post breakage ... or not-post non-post breakage.

 

been retro rider'd, launched FCRs off the bank, Wacked Womps head on ... other than pulling a few through by shimming after trimming the post and almost breaking/pull thru a pure stock 4.5" white flag and stock nut when off the bank, on the floor, out the door and under the drag strip.

It was my turn that time ...seen it thappen to other guys a few times, split cavities more than broken posts.

 

Guide breakage, what I think.

Sharp edge in tongue from stamping. razor thin SS stamped chassis unless braced to build thickness. Threading too far down or over tighten on initial install trying to get the nut to 'seat parallel then backing off.  

 

Posts - Many could be last straw from multiple  hit stress. who checks their guide after every race. " hey, check it out I didn't break this guide yet after some bad wreaks" ..."It's all gooood." 

 

Cavities - Soldering wires/clip while on that raceday flag. "yo, don't be a crackhead doin' that.

 

These 'post savers' were pressed into action NCS/local weekly series program. FCRs can have a sharp stamp edge.

 

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IMG_3987.JPG

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IMG_3988.JPG

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