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My Vintage-style '68 Bat Pan


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#1 grooverunner

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Posted 03 August 2017 - 09:23 PM

Well it only took seven months to build, but here it is!

 

2017-08-03 21.15.46.jpg

 

2017-08-03 21.16.26.jpg

 

2017-08-03 21.19.50.jpg

 

2017-08-03 21.20.24.jpg

 

20170803_210243.jpg

 

VS 68 bat pan chassis

 

Steve O'Keeffe had asked me to show the car off in a topic as I was building it. But the time frame was so stretched with a half hour here and 20 min there maybe at times weeks apart. So I figured I would start it up with the first test run on the 103' foot two-lane track that I built five years a go. Great test track.

 

20170803_210525.jpg

 

I'll start out by telling you the specifications of the chassis. Main rails are .0625" brass and piano wire, Bat pans are .030" brass, so is the motor plate. Okay I know what your all looking at? It's the drop arm.Yes, It's a newly stamped custom-made 1" drop arm, a modern copy of the Cobra, but with the the correct offset for today's guide flags. Designed by Steve O'Keeffe, he drew it up and I made the stamp and cut out the drop arm blanks and stamped them. I call it the VSC1.

 

20170803_210639.jpg

 

Back to the specs... 3/32" axles, 64 pitch gears, JK Retro fronts narrowed to a 1/4" wide, ARP angled pinion, Red Fox's new guide flag. 3/4" dia fronts, 7/8" dia rears. For testing I have Pro Slot 16D in it as the track is not capable of handling the power of the H-Power double 28 that I commissioned John to build for me.

 

20170803_211018.jpg

 

Is it not a wonderful thing? A modern 16D with a vintage wound arm all professionally blueprinted.

 

After testing is complete the H-Power will be installed and off to Modelville Raceway to take on the Purple Mile and the other tracks.

 

I will update soon with the first thoughts on the first drive... 

 

Ken


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Ken  Hill




#2 Samiam

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Posted 03 August 2017 - 09:31 PM

Sweet build, Ken.

 

I give it two more likes. :good: :good:

 

Are those super-kool drop arms going to be available to the general slotting public?  :pardon:


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#3 Dominator

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Posted 03 August 2017 - 10:05 PM

Great build, Ken.

 

Before you run it on the Purple Mile make sure your guide is set to .030. Anything less and you might launch on the straight.


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#4 Bill from NH

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Posted 03 August 2017 - 10:27 PM

Those seven months keep it as a vintage, vintage build! :)  Your Emott chassis came out beautifully. That track you built is pretty slick looking, too.  

 

Have fun testing your new car at Modelville. If I were you, I'd have to see how it runs on the American black while there.


Bill Fernald
 

How old should a highway be before you tell it, that it has been adopted?


#5 Jairus

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Posted 03 August 2017 - 11:17 PM

Sweet build, Ken!  :good: 

What took seven months to build, one has to wonder?


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#6 grooverunner

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 12:04 AM

Sam- Thanks! As for selling drop arm well I did make the stamp and have it now. I haven't given it much thought. I could make them available, but I must admit it's not a big market.

Dom- Thanks! That's good to know my track is .020" and I run alot of my cars on the Purple with not much problem. But I always blip it before the bank. So I'll set this one up at .030" per your advice. Any other advice that might come in handy you can think of would be appreciated.

Bill - Thanks! I'll be definitely trying it out on the black but I think I would be best to demotor a little, back to like a 16 or a super 16. I think a double 28 would be a bit much for the twists of the black.

Jairus - No wondering, it was 10 hours of building stretched over seven months, with 15 min here and 20 min there, not to mention I built the drop arm stamp in that time frame, too. Thanks for the compliment on the chassis, but I must thank you. There was a few soldering tips from you that help a lot. One was the Sharpie trick to keep the solder contained.

Ken


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Ken  Hill

#7 Pablo

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 07:55 AM

:good: :clapping:


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#8 grooverunner

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 09:02 AM

Paul,

 

Thanks!

 

I want to thank you for your help also there was a few build tricks I picked from you that helped in this build.

 

Ken


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#9 The Sawdust Man

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 09:43 AM

Very nice!


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#10 NY Nick

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 09:47 AM

Nice build.


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#11 dc-65x

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 10:30 AM

Very cool! :sun_bespectacled:


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#12 grooverunner

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 03:20 PM

Thanks, everyone!
Ken  Hill

#13 Bill from NH

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 04:13 PM

Now we want to see what else you can build! :laugh2:  :laugh2:  You already passed chassis building & track construction.


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Bill Fernald
 

How old should a highway be before you tell it, that it has been adopted?


#14 Samiam

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 06:26 PM

Sam- Thanks! As for selling drop arm well I did make the stamp and have it now. I haven't given it much thought. I could make them available, but I must admit it's not a big market.

Ken

I'm in for five. Who else ?

 

If you build it...they will come.


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#15 Bill from NH

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 06:48 PM

I could use a couple if they become available.


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How old should a highway be before you tell it, that it has been adopted?


#16 Samiam

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 06:53 PM

You see Ken, I just knew there are dozens of dollars to be made here. :D


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#17 Steve Okeefe

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Posted 05 August 2017 - 07:37 AM

Ken,

 

A vintage looking (and probably running) car built without using any rare and expen$$ive vintage parts!  At least, I don't see any vintage parts... what a concept! :D

 

That "modern drop arm" project really worked out well; you've got builders lining up to try it for themselves.

 

Good job on the builds, too (the car and the track to run it on)!  I see, or I think I see, that you located the plumber hinge under the front axle tube.

 

What's next on your Vintage-style build list?  How about a Steube replica, or maybe a Brady pile? :dance3:



#18 grooverunner

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Posted 05 August 2017 - 09:03 AM

Hi Steve,

 

Yup,followed you rule set and didn't even get creative and use the repop Dynamic wheels I made for it . Because I know not everyone has access to the equipment that I have access to.

 

  Not one vintage part or custom made part ( aside from the Drop arm of course ) all readily available parts. JK retro fronts narrowed , 7/8 rears with modern rubber and modern wheels, the new redfox guide flag , silcone wire, ARP angled pinion,Cahoza spur, modern 16d.

 

Yes the plumbers hinge is under the axle like your drawing. I contemplated putting it to the front like normally done, I have a few vintage cars that are in the front, So I went under the axle. 

So far I like it better I think it could maybe improved the balance of the car better from the vintage ones I have... More testing needs to be done on that comparison.

 

Ken   


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#19 Bill from NH

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Posted 05 August 2017 - 10:52 AM

Ken, a couple dumb questions, if I may ask.

 

!.) What is the significance of VSC1 on the drop arm? Is it your modeling sequence number?

 

2.) What did you use to bend your 90 degree uprights on the rails to the front axle tube? I notice flat spots on both the brass & steel rail bottoms just before the bends.

 

Thanks. :)


Bill Fernald
 

How old should a highway be before you tell it, that it has been adopted?


#20 SlotStox#53

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Posted 05 August 2017 - 12:58 PM

Superb build! Although not just yet, I'd definitely be interested in a few of those sweet drop arms :D

#21 grooverunner

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Posted 05 August 2017 - 01:40 PM

Bill 

 

The VSC1 on the drop arm stands for  Vintage Scale Cobra 1'' When I did a few prototypes the I made I sent a couple to Steve to look at and I before I sent them, that popped into my head so I engraved that on to them. I guess it could  just have no engraving ,but it looked to plain. With just the VSC1 on there gives it more old school vibe then with not. :unknw:

This picture is right out of the press  unpolished

20170805_144452.jpg

The other engravings I added to just this car's drop arm I figured I add my handle/ online name, and of course sense I have a Motor from John going in it the H power logo was appropriate.

 

I used the same bender Steve that Steve fabricates from a Z bender I fabricated on up also. Those where the first couple of bends I did with it I rectified the problem by highly polishing the tips later. there not that big or deep the camera makes them look larger then they are. They can be polished out I haven't done the final polishing yet...

 

I couldn't wait any longer I wanted to test and drive it... :D    

 

Ken


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#22 Bill from NH

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Posted 05 August 2017 - 05:48 PM

Thanks for answers Ken. It was the flat spots on the piano wire that caught my attention when I enlarged the photos. I have a "Z bender" like Steve's, but I haven't reground the heads for motor box building yet..


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How old should a highway be before you tell it, that it has been adopted?


#23 grooverunner

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 04:14 PM

First testing went very well I did around a 100 lap with the chassis as is no lead added. Before I put on the the track I put it on tripod scale I made up and the weight was very balanced  59.8 grams in the front 60.2 grams in the back not to bad.

 

I wiped down and prepped the track so there no dust at all, then I put the car on the track ran a few test laps and the car handled very well very controlled no spookiness at all planted in the slot a touch loose in the tail seemed excellent for a unknown never driven chassis car setup.

So I turned on the timing system First lap I ran a 7.18 sec and over the course of 10 lap I got it down to a 6.65 sec. So to give you a Idea of how good the car ran the track recorded with a Parma Flexikar tuned out with lead and taped up for minimal flex for a smooth track with a Proslot 16d just like this motor geared very similar for this track, and a 4'' nascar body is a 5.73 sec.

 

So I'm very happy with the out come so far with the car. I want to start adding weight to see if it helps. The tail is a little loose could be planted more. I was thinking of adding some lead to the back of the bat pans. Any tuning information would greatly be appreciated as I have never ran or tuned a car/chassis like this .

 

 

Ken 


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Ken  Hill

#24 Pablo

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 04:38 PM

Glad to hear track test went well, there wasn't much doubt in my mind. A car like that will always handle well.

 

It sounds like, other than the rear being looser than you want, it showed no bad habits, the flag seems to be planted and you didn't have any tilting problems. I'd say being a little tail happy is much better that having tilting issues.

 

I worry that as you start adding weight to a good handling car, it's going to make it looser no matter where you place it.

Every tuning change is a trade-off. As you make the rear end get more and more bite, eventually you'll reach a point where you start tilting the flag out of the slot.

 

Having said that (and this is all theory) I'd say grippier rear rubber would be a better choice than more weight.

Remember as you add more weight bias rearward, it lightens up the front.

 

If you have room for widening the rears, I'd suggest that, but I see you are limited in that.

 

Congratulations on building a car and following through on actually testing and tuning it :victory: :good:


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#25 grooverunner

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 10:02 AM

Thanks Paul !

 

After reading you suggestions I think your right I'll try tires with more grip. I did mess with a little weight after I wrote  post #23 it didn't seem to do much of anything for helping grip made it lighter feeling in the front. I'll do some more testing this evening. I'll keep everyone posted on the out come.

 

Ken


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