69 replies to this topic

[JK Products]

Hi Phil, PCH can't be selected as they do not have an ongoing slot car program. If and when that changes, they will be classified as a Raceway and could be selected. Until then, only legitimate Raceways may register and be protected.

 

Hi Steve, right now the program only works for US Raceways. We may look at expanding it if it works here.

 

Gator Bob, for obvious reasons we are keeping the identities of the racers confidential. I don't want to start or get in fights between racers and Raceway owners saying "Why did you pick Raceway A instead of me?". I think this is pretty obviously something we would want to avoid. On the ether hand, now the commission isn't 100% transparent. There is a simple test for that. As I have stated repeatedly, as soon as a racer's order payment is approved, the Raceway he has chosen gets an anonymous email showing the commission earned. It's very simple to test. If you're a racer, check with your chosen track to ask "Did you get a commission of $X at around 2PM on Monday (when you placed the order)?" The answer will always be yes. 

 

Ship to store could work for racers who have a nearby track. For those that are far away or don't like their local track, it's a bad idea.

 

First, Parma continues to sell to distributors that are damaging the industry. That should be a major concern to US racers and US Raceways. I am not very familiar with Parma's "shopatron" method but we designed our system to be as transparent as possible without disclosing the racer's identity. 

 

Hi Gary, I would think you're a club.

[MattD]

Tim,  I'm not sure I understand why PCH and Pro Motor are not allowed to be part of the program.   Both companies have raceways open to the public.   Both companies support hobbyists in all phases of slot car racing.   Both have great retail services and great raceways where people can  race all manner of slot cars in a nice clean, well lit, well stocked store.    The kind of place that is doing all it can to further interest in slot racing for kids and adults, not just serious racers.

 

Both companies support slot racers very extensively.   A great many slot racers buy your products and use them at these raceways, even if the racers don't participate in organized racing.

 

I don't understand these types of raceways being left out.   I back what you are doing, I just don't understand this.

 

matt b

[JK Products]

Matt B. You are wrong. Show me any evidence of ongoing racing programs over the past year? There is none! These are the two most recent yelp reviews for PCH. https://www.yelp.com...rt_by=date_desc

 

 

• • Brian B.
  • Los Angeles, CA

  12/14/2016

  When I arrived, the door was locked. I called to make sure I was in the right place (which I was) and he explained that the back door was open. Went around to the back door and found it locked as well. Called back, but he didn't answer the phone this time. Two more unsuccessful calls and I left empty handed. Don't waste your time with a trip here, but if you don't need any actual service, I hear ordering online is fine.

  Was this review …?

•  

  • Andrew R.
  • Ventura, CA

  5/15/2016

  I bet this place is great to buy parts for a slot car but they no longer have the track for people to race. False adervtisement. My son was very disappointed. It is very hard to find and only sells parts now.

 

 

They may or may not currently own a racetrack, but that does not qualify you as a Raceway. They do not have ongoing slot car racing programs. PCH used to have a track and ongoing program but it has not been operational in years (since they moved I believe). The same is true for Professor Motor. 

 

What they have been dong is taking a large portion of sales that should have been going to legitimate Raceways. The distributors knew they were not legitimate Raceways and were informed of this by me personally over a year ago. The distributors refused to stop selling to them, against their own "rules". PCH and Professor Motor were made aware of my challenge to their status over a year ago. Neither of them did anything to change it. In order to stop the distributors from stealing from Raceways by selling our products to people they should not be, we ceased to sell to them. 

 

There are many more actions by the distributors selling to people they should not be (KenO) racing, many other manufacturers at Raceway discounts, directly to racers at significant discounts, etc. This has to be stopped and with the help of Racways and racers, we will. 

[jimht]

If the issue is whether or not PCH & others (that have both a storefront and a track) are taking away a good proportion of RTR sales that should go to other Raceways, a simple survey of registered Raceways would resolve the question.

 

My attitude is that someone who walks in with equipment they bought elsewhere is welcome...I still make profit from track time sales and parts to tune RTRs to the track and racing program.

 

As the distributors stop selling JK products, JK's direct orders from Raceways should increase. If they don't, then either this move didn't solve "the problem" or there was no problem to begin with.

[Mark Crowley]

Curious about the fuss over PCH I went to Google street view.  View of Mar 2017 has no signage at for PCH.

BUT isn't this a moot point?  Calif will soon leave the USA making PCH a foreign company.

Mrk

[MattD]

It has been pointed out to me that  the online  websites for the above raceways present a false picture of what they really  are.  Evidently there are no hours they are open to the public for racing and the tracks/track/no track they have is used mainly for a table to process orders.   I'm disappointed to learn this is true of Professor Motors raceway, as it presents a great online presence with several tracks, birthday parties different kinds of organized racing and clean, well lit shop.

That's the power of the internet!!

[Garry S]

Professor Motors show current 2017 hours for Lightning Speedway, it is listed on their home page under "Quick Links".  Address is the same as their contact info.

[JK Products]

Garry, listing hours doesn't mean anything. When did you last race there? Do you know people who have raced there in the past year? I don't, and I've asked. I asked Professor Motor to show evidence of an ongoing slot car program and I have not received anything significant in return. Everything I got back from them was dated 2 years ago. 

[Jason Holmes]

Tim

 

When I signed up I tried to Put BPR as my Home raceway an it didn't come up but I was still able so sign up 

 

Jason

[JK Products]

Hi Jason,

 

You registered on the 21st. BPR didn't register until the 29th that's why you couldn't find them. You must have chosen Chicagoland Raceway as there were only a few raceways registered that early.

 

Do you want me to change it to BPR?

[slotbaker]

Hi Steve, right now the program only works for US Raceways. We may look at expanding it if it works here.

 

That's a shame, but understandable. Hope it works well in the U.S. so it can be expanded.

 

As a registered international racer, am I able to nominate a US raceway to receive the commission from my purchases?

 

I'll buy what I can from my local raceway, but there could be occasions where I'd buy direct from JK-P.

[Garry S]

I've never been to Lightning Speedway, so I can't say.  I have bought cars and parts from them, and am very pleased with their service.  Basically you're telling me that they lied to you in an effort to purchase your products, and I do find that a bit hard to believe.  I've spoken with them, and I do know that a large percentage of their business is 1/32 scale, so I can't imagine there being any huge loss to their sales by not having JK.

 

It sounds like you've reinvented the "restricted dealership" model which has failed dismally since the advent of the internet, and was even in quite a bit of trouble in the 60s.  I've read many controversies about direct sales in slot car and model airplane magazines of that era, and it's always been a divisive issue.

 

Restricted dealerships can still work, but it has to be a product that has a large demand.  In the past that demand was created by a unique product, aggressive marketing, or a combination of both.  Very few products can still do that today, and "controlling the product after you sell it" has always been difficult lol.

 

While I admire your motives I think the dealers should stand or fall on their own, and I don't think you can prop them up with a 15% bonus.  They already know they can't sell by price alone, service is the only advantage they have.  If they can't provide that - through hours, stock levels, customer assistance, etc - then they will fail.  And if they do, then you will either market direct or fail with them.

 

That's just my rather cold-hearted opinion, but it's borne of experience.  I'm in the music business, and am very successful without being an "authorized dealer" for any brand name. 

[JK Products]

Garry, I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Let me try to explain this as clearly as I can. 

 

#1. If there are no Raceways, the industry effectively dies, especially 1/24 scale. You will have no place to race your cars.

#2. JK Products does not want this to happen.

#3. Distributors are stealing from Raceways by selling to people they should not and at discounts they should not. They refused to stop doing this when I directly confronted them over a year ago. 

#4. Distributors can no longer harm Raceways using JK Products because we will no longer sell to them.

#5. Raceways will make much higher profit margins (29-40%), get faster free shipping, better service/support, etc. by buying directly from JK Products. 

#6. If a racer needs to buy direct (please buy from a Raceway whenever you can), when they buy from JK Products, their chosen Raceway gets a 15% commission for doing nothing. If a racer orders from any other non-raceway, the Raceways make nothing.

 

Please see these documents for a more complete explanation. 

 

https://drive.google...VhoVWJZTEE/view

 

https://drive.google...GUwc2FIRTg/view

 

https://drive.google...ktnNFpERzg/view

 

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

[Mark Crowley]

That's just my rather cold-hearted opinion, but it's borne of experience.  I'm in the music business, and am very successful without being an "authorized dealer" for any brand name. 

 

Since the "advent of the internet" most people do not buy their music through an "authorized dealer." In fact most do not buy.  

 

Mrk

[Garry S]

Clarification: my music store sells, rents, and repairs band and other instruments, and provides lessons and supplies. Many such stores feel it necessary to be a Fender, Selmer, or other authorized dealer, but in fact I see it as an advantage not to have the restrictions these suppliers place on you. I still supply brand names, but am not burdened by required stock levels.

[Garry S]

Tim,

 

I've read your post and documents, and have some comments and questions:

 

Will you require authorized dealers to sign a contract, and maintain certain stock levels?  If not, you have no recourse over who they sell to, and your 15% payment to the dealers for direct sales is basically charity.  Not that this is a bad thing, but without a contract and stock requirements, the raceway's most profitable option is to get customers to register them as their "local track" - whether they really are or not!  Also bear in mind that stock requirements are also a burden on raceways.

 

I think "stealing" in reference to distributors is a bit harsh, it suggests that you still maintain legal control over product distribution and pricing even after you sell the product.  While this is possible, again a contract would be necessary.

 

Your flow chart states that direct sales from distributors, hobby shops, and "resellers" to consumers takes dollars away from the industry.  This may be true, but it depends on how you define "industry".  The "industry", at your level, would seem to consist of manufacturing and selling slot car parts.  In this context the more sales the better!  A "captive" market is impossible, and an open market encourages competition and growth.  I understand where you are coming from, but a more workable (albeit expensive) approach might be JK owned or franchised raceways.

 

Most importantly, please understand that I mean no offense by any of my comments.  I'm all for expanding the industry, and I'm just adding my impressions in hopes of furthering the dialogue.  I have experienced some of the "political" issues involved in this discussion, and I appreciate the opportunity to offer my views!  

[Garry S]

@JK Products:  Your document states "They increase delivery times and increase shipping costs because distributors do not stock

most of our products..."  

 

If they don't stock your products, what makes them a distributor??? 

 

And by the same token, what makes a Raceway a dealer if they do not stock your products?

 

I'm sorry, but I just don't understand your logic here.  If neither distributors or raceways are under contract to actually stock your products, you have no formal distribution network at all.  And even under your "new" system, there seems to be nothing to prevent a raceway from selling your products to anyone at any price.  

 

If a legitimate raceway (by your own definition) decides to market JK products on their own website (or Ebay), is this acceptable?  They could easily better your retail website price and still make money, thus becoming your competition!

 

Again, I'm NOT trying to be antagonistic, I'm just trying to understand.  I have a bit of background in this field of business, and I'm baffled by the concepts being presented here.  I understand the intentions, but I'm not sure this has been completely thought out.

[Samiam]

Gary,

 

Key word there was "most." Meaning the distributor does not carry the full line of JK products. Forcing the raceway to source the part elsewhere.

 

If a full-function raceway (FFR) wants to discount their prices, it is their loss. And not such a good idea. But JK still made the sale. Tim is not in competition with them. I'm sure his direct to racer and club sales will pale in comparison to sales to FFRs. As he stated, he is doing this to protect raceways. Something the distributors have steadfastly refused to do. For decades!

[Garry S]

Any further response from JK?

[JK Products]

Garry,

 

I cannot and will not try to force raceways to carry our products. I also cannot and will not tell raceways how to operate or what prices to sell at. It's not my business to tell raceways who, what, where, when, or how to sell. It's my business to support them and make the most attractive products we can to benefit the raceways and racers the most. 

 

The critical difference maybe you're missing is that when any legitimate raceway makes the sale, they still get the profit, and this benefits the industry. I am trying to stop distributors and resellers from harming raceways by removing those profits from the raceways. 

 

Tim