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Clow's Limpach


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#1 Pablo

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 01:14 PM

Chassis is a genuine Limpach as far as I can tell.

It has one of those "coatings" on it, so no rust

 

IMG_6939.JPG

 

IMG_6940.JPG

 

IMG_6941.JPG

 

IMG_6943.JPG

 

IMG_6944.JPG

 

IMG_6945.JPG

 

Parts gathering and full assembly to follow.........


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#2 Kevin Donovan

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 01:34 PM

What was the idea behind the ISO anyway?
Looks like it just lets the front wheels raise up out of the way and get the chassis down on the track where it belongs.
At least the modern cars have gone away from the useless front tires.

#3 Pablo

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 01:48 PM

This isn't an ISO. The front axle tube is solid connected via rails to the motor box and rear axle tube.

The drop arm hinges off the rails and the torsion plumber rails hinge off the drop arm.

It's a torsion plumber with the pans hard connected to the plumber rails.

As opposed to a full plumber where the pans lift and tilt via hinges.

 

An ISO is where the front axle is hinged and can lift independent of the main rails, like a La Cucaracha.


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#4 Jaz

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 01:52 PM

Like the built-in glue shield!


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#5 Pablo

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 01:56 PM

It must have been added; these cookie cutter chassis never came with built in goop shields.


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#6 Bill from NH

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 02:09 PM

I would say it was a genuine Limpach too. I own #112 of the 888's & this one has a few changes/differences. Is it numbered on the top of the drop arm? I had read on here that some of his later 888's were built by others & some parts were sold as kits.


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#7 Pablo

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 02:18 PM

No "888" markings at all. I think it is simply one of many Limpach variations, circa early 70's, sold for about $6.

Whatever it is, I'm going to do the best I can with it.

The owner wants it to be a runner but he's not going to drive it to death :D

 

Bill, I'm thinking can drive Mura soldered in, 64P gears, 13/16 OD rears, .750 fronts, Jet Flag, etc. What say ye?


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#8 mjsh

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 03:07 PM

We always took the motor mount off and replaced with a piece of wire. Never seen one with drop arm cut like that.  This would be a perfect use of the Associated fronts. 


Michael Shepard

#9 Bill from NH

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 03:09 PM

The 888 was priced at $8.88 retail when I bought mine. :)  On the specs, i would say everything was okay, except mine used 5/8" Aguirre fronts, so check the front axle height. I think I ran a 24S arm, but it did not handle well in heavy glue. Any of the milder C-can arms, such as a Grp 20, X-12, Super Wasp, or Contender should make for a more driveable car. If you want a period body, try the O/S Lancer Porsche coupe or the open cockpit version. Both bodies have plenty of front end downforce.


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Bill Fernald
 

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#10 Pablo

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 03:38 PM

Cool. Thanks guys. :)


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#11 elvis44102

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 06:54 PM

I would say it was a genuine Limpach too. I own #112 of the 888's & this one has a few changes/differences. Is it numbered on the top of the drop arm? I had read on here that some of his later 888's were built by others & some parts were sold as kits.

 That sure looks like Jans signature...

 

I was one of the "others"  i built some chassis in the early 1980"s for him as well as thread wheel hubs and grind tires and fill lotion bottles....

 

but with fading memory i don't remember drop arms with that kinda hole system


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#12 Bill from NH

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 06:59 PM

I forget the exact year they became available, but in the early 70's I saw some sold by Parma. They were raw aluminum, had no cutouts in the cooling hole areas, & the end corners were square, not rounded off. I don't know if I have any, but they looked like aluminum strips bent over the top of a motor. I don't recall if the Parmas were cut to fit D-can endbells, C-can endbells, or both.


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#13 Bill from NH

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 07:10 PM

 That sure looks like Jans signature...

 

John, the signature on the chassis Pablo has is quite different than that on the 888 I've had since the early 70's, numbered 112. I took into account that Pablo's was probably done with an engraving bit in a Dremel, whereas mine was done with an engraving machine & the writing is much sharper.

 

I never saw droparms like those either. They certainly weren't sold by Parma, like Jan's other brass chassis parts. Parma had solid & one-hole droparms. My guess is that it's a user-modified solid Parma drop.


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#14 elvis44102

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Posted 02 September 2017 - 05:19 PM

 

John, the signature on the chassis Pablo has is quite different than that on the 888 I've had since the early 70's, numbered 112. I took into account that Pablo's was probably done with an engraving bit in a Dremel, whereas mine was done with an engraving machine & the writing is much sharper.

 

I never saw droparms like those either. They certainly weren't sold by Parma, like Jan's other brass chassis parts. Parma had solid & one-hole droparms. My guess is that it's a user-modified solid Parma drop.

I really haven't seen a signature in 30 years plus so i couldn't tell you what they look like, only my fading memory...

 

I mentioned that i made some chassis in early 80's but they were "Pacesetters" and several others i know made them. 

 

This pictured chassis is more early 70's vintage (especially with motor mount!?) when i was in high school i used to stop by frequently (Jans mom even made supper occasionally)

 

Funny thing is/was I dont really think of Jan as a chassis builder at all, i do remember him obsessing for an hour or more trying to get five thousandths more clearance at a race...

 

When Jan decided to go "Professional" he started having more stuff like Gorski controllers and Dave Bloom bodies...I know he had the car he won some European race with in 1983 (Paul Pfieffer built chassis) cause I completely copied the chassis as the last slot car I built.  Jan was a good driver not so much a builder


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#15 Pablo

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Posted 02 September 2017 - 05:49 PM

Owner has approved this powerplant:  http://slotblog.net/...20-c-can-motor/

 

I thought the chassis wouldn't need much TLC, but upon closer inspection it obviously needs corrective surgery.

The rear axle tube alignment is a mile off, found some hairline solder cracks, and gouges in some brace wires.

I may as well fix any and all problems then tumble it.

 

IMG_6957.JPG

 

1972 rules will be used:

-5/8" OD fronts

-13/16" OD rears

-3 1/8" max widths

 

Parts gathering so far:

-Mura "C" motor with 42 degree Champion Group 20 arm, all new parts, BB's on both ends

-64P gears 9/42. Spur is a Camen (thanks to Phil H. for verification)

-Steube Associated magnesium front wheels

-Limpach's Cuts rear wheels

-Jet Flag

-VXB unshielded ball bearings

 

IMG_6961.JPG


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#16 Pablo

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Posted 02 September 2017 - 06:33 PM

How about this this body for it?

Genuine Champion Waters/Dave Bloom Ferrari 612.

WB is perfect, about 3 7/8", and width is perfect 3 1/8"

 

IMG_6964.JPG

 

IMG_6967.JPG


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#17 Pablo

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Posted 02 September 2017 - 07:07 PM

We always took the motor mount off and replaced with a piece of wire.

I did a rough mock-up of the gears and motor, and I can see why you would discard it, Mike.

A motor mount on a left hand can drive anglewinder like this is useless, and the motor needs to be positioned further left anyway :good:


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#18 Bill from NH

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Posted 02 September 2017 - 07:27 PM

The body looks good.

 

Your spur gear isn't a Faas because the Faas gear hubs are about 3/8" dia. on the back side & yours is bigger. The Faas hubs don't flare out like that one either. Do you need a dab of Camen "Grease-it" gear grease? It might not be any better than white "Lubriplate" but its what most people used in the day to break in metal gears.

 

West coast builders were using motor mounting plates on can-mounted motors weeks, if not months after eastern builders dumped them. I don't still have it, but my first wing car chassis had one, 3/4" fronts, & 7/8' rears. I ran it in one race, then probably took it home in a brown paper bag. :laugh2:


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#19 mike1972chev

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Posted 02 September 2017 - 07:30 PM

How would that rear axle tube get THAT far off???   Could it have been assembled wrong once upon a time???


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#20 tonyp

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Posted 02 September 2017 - 07:40 PM

Could be a Camen gear.


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#21 Jaz

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 08:26 AM

Anyone notice the unusual build of the rails?

 

One the gear side, the main rail runs the entire length. On the other side the main rail stops just past the motor box.  

Interesting flex characteristics???


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Jeff Morris

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#22 Bill from NH

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 02:11 PM

I noticed it. Maybe it was built that way for a particular track, or maybe it was built by somebody with a kit.


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#23 MSwiss

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 02:46 PM

The rails are sort of shifted, biased toward the right side of the car.

 

The reason?

 

For endbell clearance / fitting the motor in?

 

I traveled a fair amount with Jan, back in the "Van Rossem, free trips to Europe", era.

 

A super entertaining, outgoing guy.

 

I always thought Retro racing would of drawn Jan back in to some occasional racing.

 

But so far, no dice.

 

If Jan happens to be lurking here, we miss you.


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#24 Pablo

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 02:49 PM

Looks like a pretty standard design for a can drive to me.

Once they went to can drive, rail(s) went all the way back to the axle tube.

 

Jeff, you mentioned a "motor box" but motor boxes were made obsolete by using can drive configuration.

This chassis has no motor box. Mura made endbells with cut outs to allow the non-gear side rails to pass under them.

 

Anyway, I did some preliminary work. Flag is trimmed/blueprinted, sharp edges of nut rounded and polished, all four rotating surfaces faced, pinion width trimmed

 

IMG_6974.JPG


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#25 MSwiss

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 03:06 PM

Steube%20Ferrari%20612%2052.jpg

 

Here's a pic of a Rick Thigpen build.

 

The rail configuration is symmetrical.

 

IOW, both inner rails don't go all the way back.

 

With the Limpach, one inner rail goes all the way back, and the other doesn't.

 

And one outer rail goes all the way back, and the other outer rail, doesn't.

 

Billy%20Mobile%202.jpg

 

Same with this Bill Steube Jr. chassis, which I guess is the original, he is cloning.

 

 

post-3-024663800%201282666689.jpg

Or a Limpach 888.


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#26 Pablo

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 03:35 PM

OK I can see I'm out of my league on that subject so I'll just listen :popcorm1:

 

Alpha Wonder Rubber donuts on Limpach Cuts hubs

 

IMG_6975.JPG

 

Anybody know why the Steube fronts are like this?

 

IMG_6971.JPG


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#27 Bill from NH

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 03:54 PM

Jeff, you mentioned a "motor box" but motor boxes were made obsolete by using can drive configuration.

This chassis has no motor box. Mura made endbells with cut outs to allow the non-gear side rails to pass under them.

 

Some people, myself included, will refer to the motor mounting area formed by the two half-rails & the rails' crosspiece as the "motor box."  While technically not a box, neither was the motor mounting area on earlier anglewinder designs by scratchbuilders & companies like Cobra & Phase III. 

 

I'm guessing the rubber on the Steube fronts has aged to the point of being rotten. if you're asking about the hub's center rib, it was supposed to help keep the rubber on the hubs. Many 1/32 hubs today, both front & rear, have center ribs in various  widths.


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My wife says I don't pay enough attention to her, or something like that.  :unknw:


#28 bluecars

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 06:18 AM

Pablo; I think I have a good set of those fronts if you want them.


Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 


#29 Pablo

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 09:01 AM

Clarification: I didn't mean "why do they have a giant crack in them" :laugh2:

I meant, I cracked one open to see what type rubber I could replace the 45 yr. old rubber with.

I never expected to see that center rib. I'll figure something out.

 

Red, thanks, send 'em, they will have a good home :)


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#30 Bill from NH

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 09:35 AM

I could remove the ribs so as to use regular tires or O-rings on those hubs. 


Bill Fernald
 

My wife says I don't pay enough attention to her, or something like that.  :unknw:


#31 Pablo

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 09:44 AM

Or I could do it on my Hudy. Not sure yet.

I just may have some of those crazy rubber wheels......


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#32 Bill from NH

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 11:47 AM

Those ribs might be strength items too. RVMs are the only mag fronts I ever had.


Bill Fernald
 

My wife says I don't pay enough attention to her, or something like that.  :unknw:


#33 Pablo

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 02:25 PM

Concur. I'll put them aside for now. Maybe the Doktorr will make an appearance......

 

For now, I have license from the owner to make the chassis "right" as opposed to keeping it intact for nostalgia.

As usual, the deeper I look, the more flaws I find. Some may have come from the factory, but I'll bet most didn't.

 

IMG_6981.JPG

 

IMG_6980.JPG

 

Just like a hostile corporate takeover, I fired almost everybody simultaneously.

Some will be re-hired, some won't :diablo: :laugh2: :crazy:

 

IMG_6987.JPG


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Paul Wolcott

#34 Pablo

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 04:37 PM

Front axle tube was a mile off as well. Don't know if the original owner (RIP) tried to make it into a specialty chassis, or ?.

Water under the bridge. I re-floated the tube for 1/16" clearance at .720". Piece of cake. L/R placement was good, +/- 5 thou

 

IMG_6991.JPG


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Paul Wolcott

#35 Pablo

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 06:00 PM

Holy cow, now I'm understanding the rail issue you guys warned me about.

Somebody really screwed this chassis up in a lot of ways

 

IMG_6994.JPG

 

No problemo, I can fix it :wink2:

 

Limpach wheels rough cut to .820; now they cure for a couple days

 

IMG_6995.JPG


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#36 Bill from NH

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 06:39 PM

Pablo, I think you're working not with a genuine Limpach, but a chassis assembled from parts or a kit to look like one. The soldering quality & placement of parts indicates to me it probably isn't legit.  Both Mike Bloes' kit build & Rick T's 888 build have some great photos if you haven't already looked. Rick even has photos of the genuine item. Did John's chassis supposedly come from the Sano Dave collection?


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Bill Fernald
 

My wife says I don't pay enough attention to her, or something like that.  :unknw:


#37 Pablo

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 06:47 PM

The original owner was from the Mobile, AL area.

I appreciate the info, but don't want to get too bogged down into history.

 

My job is to make it work. Nothing is ever easy here at the Wolcott Ranch, so I'm used to challenges :laugh2:


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Paul Wolcott

#38 Bill from NH

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 07:12 PM

I only asked because I've seen a ton of cars & chassis come out of the Chicago area with his name on them. Last question: How thick is the brass droparm & pans on John's chassis? Build on! :)


Bill Fernald
 

My wife says I don't pay enough attention to her, or something like that.  :unknw:


#39 Pablo

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 08:40 PM

Drop arm and pans are both .040", Sir.


Paul Wolcott

#40 Pablo

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 04:32 PM

By carefully tweaking the rear uprights, I was able to use the original axle tube.

She is now jigged for 1/16" clearance using 13/16" wheels

 

IMG_7003.JPG

 

Camen spur was narrowed to about .250" width, pinion installed on motor and solder attachment points tinned

 

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Paul Wolcott

#41 Pablo

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 07:55 PM

Gouges in the rails that made a nest for motor bracket wire wraps are now a weak point.

They will be filled with 60/40 solder once I solder the motor in

 

IMG_7012.JPG

 

I strengthened it up top with a piece of .047

 

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.047 "U" brace for the motor in place

 

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Drop arm springs .032, same as originals

 

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Now she tumbles overnight......

 


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#42 Bill from NH

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 08:33 PM

The rear gear-side rail area was one popular location to wire-wrap a chassis in the early 70's. Hinge tubes to plumber rails was another popular location. Sheet brass & other metals was often wrapped using drilled holes.   When done neatly, wrapping did make the area stronger. My local track owner during this period sold a stainless steel veterinary staple wire for chassis wrapping.


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#43 Pablo

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 08:46 PM

No argument here, wire wrapping did strengthen things.

But wouldn't you agree a motor bracket on a pro-era can drive chassis is useless as teats on a boar hog?

 

The wires on this one wouldn't allow a screw to be placed on the bottom anyway .......


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#44 Bill from NH

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 09:43 PM

But wouldn't you agree a motor bracket on a pro-era can drive chassis is useless as teats on a boar hog?

 

Of my personal cars, only the first wing chassis I built had a motor bracket. None have since. When I built chassis for my local trackowner because he couldn't get 888's from Rehco, he requested motor brackets on them, so i used them then. The Lee Gilbert chassis building series in Car Model had a motor bracket, as did the Lee Gilbert pre-bent chassis kit I got from West Seattle Speedway & Hobby. I've never built an anglewinder chassis for an endbell-mounted motor.


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My wife says I don't pay enough attention to her, or something like that.  :unknw:


#45 Pablo

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 08:49 AM

Out of the tumbler

 

IMG_7020.JPG

 

IMG_7021.JPG


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#46 tonyp

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 09:15 AM

In regards to motor brackets. We did use them for awhile with can drive. We would use a screw in the top hole to hold motor in place to set the gear ratio. Once set we would add a bottom brace to the axle tube and tack solder the can to the top of the bracket.


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#47 Pablo

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 09:43 AM

Makes sense.


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#48 Pablo

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 05:17 PM

I decided to leave the patina on the vintage front wheels.

Final wheel trim, Steube fronts .705, Limpach rears .814

 

IMG_7027.JPG


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#49 Pablo

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 07:15 PM

Assembly complete. Ride height is perfect, she passes the drivetrain test and the motor sounds happy :)

 

IMG_7030.JPG


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#50 Pablo

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Posted 10 September 2017 - 04:40 PM

Interior must be right hand driver non-full coverage helmet Chris Amon, lightweight, low profile. Decided to make my own

 

IMG_7031.JPG

 

 


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