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Why mail order?


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#26 Rob Voska

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 04:58 AM

* Too many classes
* Too much specialised and varied equipment.
* Too much inventory NOT stocked by the "DISTRIBUTOR"
* Cottage industry.
* Too much time lag between the "racer" ordering parts & finding out the next week the "distributor" didn't have it.
 
Try to look at the root of problem, not your personal pet peeve.
 
Funny but I don't see people say we should make adjustable controllers obsolete, or power supplies, or tire truers, or 50 GTP bodies or anything home made or modified or boxes that hold more than two cars or, or, or...
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#27 Mike K

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 06:12 AM

"complaining about who buys what from whom won't help.  We need actual businessmen who understand profit/loss and are willing to cast aside antiquated ideas and promote the industry. "

 

I buy from suppliers that have what I want in stock. If they don't take the time to note what I ask for when they don't have it on the wall, why should I be concerned about giving them my business? They need to understand their customer. When I ask about an item and they say they don't have it and I say that I would have bought TEN of the item if they had it, wouldn't you think that they would take the opportunity to find out what my needs are rather than just saying they don't have it in stock?

 

Customer service in the slot car business is typically the shop stocking what they want to carry and the customer having to find a source that has what the customer wants.....usually not one in the same shop. When the supplier has what the consumer wants when the consumer wants it they make a sale, but not until they have the item that is requested. Simple supply and demand.

 

The shop needs to do some of the work in seeking out what the customer is looking for and stocking items for their customer base..

 

The more times the shop says they don't have what I want, the less times I am inclined to ask if they do have what I want.


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So much DRAMA for such small cars....
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#28 gjc2

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 06:35 AM

I understand the raceway owner’s complaint about his racers buying equipment they use at his raceway off the web. However ecommerce is here to stay, it affects almost all businesses. Every business owner has to find a way to deal with it

.

 

I don’t think it’s just a matter of price. When you shop on line you can find exactly what you want, you don’t have to compromise. Raceway owners have to make an effort to know what their racers need and have it available.

 

 

Instead of complaining about the internet join in. There are raceways that have successful eBay stores.

 

 

I have always tried to buy all my equipment for my home raceway although if I need a specific part the raceway doesn’t have I’ll get it on line. I have also bought used stuff like Parma Turbo controllers that I’ve modified and changed the resistors, there’s no point in buying them new.


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#29 Mattb

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 08:45 AM

We  always end up going around in circles in these discussions!   A lot of this goes right to the heart of the commercial track slot car problem.   Managing a slot car track is no different than managing a factory or a grocery store.  The manager better be a good business man and not a hobbyist  spending a 20 hours a week running his slot car track for his friends to race on.    

 

This is a business and requires good business sense and ......lots of work and thinking.    

 

We live in a supposedly market based economy and major changes have come about many times over the years to how our economy works.   The internet is the latest change and things will settle out  however they will settle out.   If you want to run slot cars, we will all find a way to keep running them in one way or another.      


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#30 Phil Hackett

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 11:41 AM

* Too many classes
* Too much specialised and varied equipment.
* Too much inventory NOT stocked by the "DISTRIBUTOR"
* Cottage industry.
* Too much time lag between the "racer" ordering parts & finding out the next week the "distributor" didn't have it.

 
I especially agree with #1, #2, #5.
 
The fractioning of slot car classes, sometimes just to satisfy some personal whim, is the MAIN reason the supply problem exists. When Sonic made tires there were 3 tire sizes on the same wheel using the same rubber. Now, I make *dozens* of varieties of wheels. Throw is the different tire compounds, the varied hardnessess, wheel widths, and the wheel sizes from .300 to .800 in diameter and you can see the problem: too many solutions for few problems. How is a track or distributor supposed to keep up with all that?
 
Cottage industry? I know I'm not paying for a cottage every mont... Wait! I'm in SoCal where a shack can get $700/month. Cottages are much more rent... please don't let my landlord know!
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#31 blue&orange

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 11:56 AM

There are few perfect win-win situations, but JK may have come close.
 
1) Let's assume a manufacturer sells an item at 60% of retail (and skip distributors for now).  Buying selling mail order at retail and giving 15% to designated tracks, a manufacturer makes an extra 25% -- more $$ to invest in new items.  Seen any new items you like from JK lately?  First win.
 
2) This is a mixed bag. The shop doesn't make its 30-40% markup on an item. On the other hand, the shop makes 15% by doing nothing! No ordering, no shelf spaced used, no unwanted or obsolete items gathering dust. Now maybe the shop can concentrate on using its buying power to keep in stock the items most used/needed by the local racers, on which it will still make its 30-40% markup. Second win.
 
3)  The racer gets the needed items quicker, with shipping costs probably equaling gas and sales tax. Third win.
 
I know this is simplified, but my question is, if this really works for JK, will other US manufacturers follow? And if not, why not?
Chris Matthy

#32 Don Weaver

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 12:21 PM

Often overlooked is the practice of putting 6 items on a card.  A racer sees something "special" that he wants and asks the raceway to get him one.  But for the raceway this means having to order 6 not 1, the other 5 of which may sit on the wall forever.  A $1.00 item costs the raceway $3.60 (6 pieces at 60%) which it then sells for a buck.  If the raceway can't sell the other 5 "special" pieces then it loses $2.60 on the sale.

 

In this case it is far better for the raceway to "lose" the sale to some other mail order provider.

 

Don


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#33 Phil Hackett

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 01:11 PM

Sometimes the cost of packaging and shipping a part packaged one at a time exceeds the cost of the part itself by multiple times. Multiple parts on a card saves everyone money. Just think about it.


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#34 Don Weaver

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 02:09 PM

Simply pointing out the expense to the raceway of ordering "special" parts for one racer.  The distributors and mail order houses have a much broader customer base both in numbers and interests to purchase the other 5 pieces on the card.  Losing $2.60 on a $1.00 order is not a good business plan for long-term survival.


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The supply of government exceeds demand.
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#35 gjc2

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 03:54 PM

Simply pointing out the expense to the raceway of ordering "special" parts for one racer.  The distributors and mail order houses have a much broader customer base both in numbers and interests to purchase the other 5 pieces on the card.  Losing $2.60 on a $1.00 order is not a good business plan for long-term survival.

 

That's an excellent point. When we were racing hard bodies and I wanted a particular model the raceway or hobby shop might have to order a case of four to six models to get the one I wanted. If he already had a big inventory of models what could he do? 


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#36 crazyphysicsteacher

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 08:35 PM

Guys, the real issue is why do people think mail order is causing shops to shut down.  If it is the cost of the parts and items, well that could be the shops are marking the parts up too much or they charge too much for track time. 

I have recently started traveling to various other tracks for races. I was talking with my home track owner who travels and races but enjoys running the track.  his location has had more traffic than I saw at any of the other tracks I went too.  Even when there were 20 racers, there were still rentals coming in and renting time on the other tracks.  He does not have super fast rentals, but he does not push people to buy the fastest car.  He lets them decide what they want to do and has the options for the just going and running a car while also having stuff if they want more.  He works on their stuff for them and works with them to make the car enjoyable, not super fast but so they can run the car and enjoy it.  Now, I know many tracks look for the fastest rentals because people do not want to drive slow cars, but really those slow poorly handling rentals are what draw people back.  They race each other and have to really drive the cars to beat each other, no flat out running with the trigger pinned the entire lap.  Hell, us racers have more fun driving those slow cars than the fast stuff.  We even tell people that on a regular basis because it takes so much more skill to go slower than to really go faster.  The ability of tracks to stay open is the keep people coming in for fun, not trying to turn every new face into a racer.   


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#37 MSwiss

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 09:02 PM

It's just the opposite by me.

My casual customer prefers good handling rentals, with the power set where there is a small level of skill involved, at least in the beginning.

They are looking to spend more time with the car in the slot, than walking around, to put it back in the slot.

If they have had previous experience doing a casual rental (which is pretty common, considering in the 90's, Chicago might of had 20 raceways within an hour of each other) they usually marvel how well my rentals run.

If 5 minutes in, they are still off, every second lap, I offer to lower it.

If they stay in, 15-20 laps in a row, I'll offer to raise it.

In a 20 minute rental, I might change it, up to 4 times.

And probably 1/3 of my rentals, are 3-6 year olds, running full tilt, on about 6V,with them constantly reminding their dad or grandfather, that "I'm winning, I'm winning".
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#38 Mark Crowley

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 10:26 PM

Guys, the real issue is why do people think mail order is causing shops to shut down.  If it is the cost of the parts and items, well that could be the shops are marking the parts up too much or they charge too much for track time. 

The real issue is why do people think that mail order sales by companies without a track will not impact a slot car business with track.

Mrk


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#39 crazyphysicsteacher

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 06:45 AM

Mike, The good track owners, like you, pay attention to the people on the track and will adjust the power for the rentals.  Either turning it down or up as needed, but I see lots of kids running the rentals.  They like racing eachother reguardless of how fast they are going.

 

Mark, this is just a play.  Tracks are not shutting down because people are buying from the internet.  IF your local track shut down because people only buy from the internet, then there was a problem with getting people into the track.  The owners of the track were not doing enought to keep people going and buying from them.  They did not make friends with their customers.  People aslo need to realize that there will always be those that do not buy from them or buy what they do not carry.  It is then the track owner/operators job to either direct them to the parts they have that work well or foster the relationship to create loyal customers.  I think that is the real issue at heart, having loyal customers.  I learned long ago that it is better to spend a little more for better service and having a person local to get repairs from, no such source from the internet.    


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#40 Rob Voska

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 10:02 AM

Distributors "should have" offered drop shipping direct to customers at an extra reasonable cost to the racer / raceway............ but failed to do so.  They refused to change with the times and did not recognize they were becoming obsolete.

 

Who has not ordered something from their local track, say 6 body's all the same because you are going to do some painting & when you get to the track the next week the track was sent 2.

The distributors didn't want to stock inventory.   I have talked to body makers that said the distributor wanted to order body's 2 at a time from them...... so how long will it take for the racer to get 6 in his hands?

Is the distributor the solution or the problem in this case?  Or just the weak link and delay in the supply chain?  Who is really hurting the raceway's business?  The racer just wants parts, nothing more and nothing less.


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#41 Mark Crowley

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 12:06 PM

Mark, this is just a play.  Tracks are not shutting down because people are buying from the internet.  IF your local track shut down because people only buy from the internet, then there was a problem with getting people into the track.  The owners of the track were not doing enought to keep people going and buying from them.  They did not make friends with their customers.  People aslo need to realize that there will always be those that do not buy from them or buy what they do not carry.  It is then the track owner/operators job to either direct them to the parts they have that work well or foster the relationship to create loyal customers.  I think that is the real issue at heart, having loyal customers.  I learned long ago that it is better to spend a little more for better service and having a person local to get repairs from, no such source from the internet.    

Again.  The point of this thread is that if you don't support your local track then who will?  If a track closes then where do you race your mail order stuff?  Should track owners be better business men?  You bet.  Should they evolve to be more profitable?  Of course.  Should they have every part you want when you want it?  Nice but not realistic.

Maybe, just maybe we as racers could help the tracks a little so we will have a place to race.  Do you buy a burger at McDonalds and take it to Red Robin to eat it?  Why do theaters not allow people to bring in treats?  That's not fair, because I can buy a liter of pop at Quck Trip for $1.

Since many people think tracks should adapt to the changing time how about tracks charge double for track time if you buy your cars elsewhere?  That's fair so I'm sure no one with have an issue with that :shok: .  They are not making you buy anything from them.  Its your choice.

People say my track doesn't do this, should do this, won't do that, doesn't have what I want (and I what it now), not open enough, closes too early, etc. You don't need to give him any help.  It's not your problem anyway (yet). Tracks are like Starbucks.  I'm sure there is another two blocks away.

 

Mrk



#42 John Streisguth

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 02:34 PM

When I see people who have maybe 100 motors etc, I always have to wonder where they buy them. God bless them if everything is purchased at the local raceway. but my bet is that it wasn't. 

I buy in this order: home raceway, raceways I travel to race at, then and only then online if (a) none of the raceways have the part and/or cannot get it from a distributor in a reasonable amount of time (b) it's something I realize at the 11th hour I need for an upcoming race © it's something specialized that won't be available through normal channels.

It's a two-way street between the raceway owners and their customers.  Each one has to do their part. Neither one will be the sole reason for a raceway closing.  In fact, I would bet landlords are one of the biggest reasons for raceways closing up.


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"Whatever..."

#43 munter

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 02:51 AM

You have a local raceway?.... you are incredibly blessed.


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#44 John Streisguth

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 09:01 AM

I actually have one about 20 minutes from my house, but they haven't had a regular racing program in years.  They are just finishing refurbishment of what seems to be the only Altech track in existence, so there is hope!.  My "home" raceway is a bit over an hour away.  Having local raceways was not always the case in these parts.  From the mid-70's until the early 90's, there was ZERO in northern New Jersey.  Then around 1990 there was a boom, probably a dozen at one point.  All are gone except the one that started it all, Zeppelin Hobbies. 

If it weren't for the commercial raceways, I would be racing HO scale, or most likely, not involved with slot cars at all (I had no involvement from 1974 to 1990)


"Whatever..."

#45 raisin27

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 01:29 PM

I buy mostly mail order as I have no local raceway to deal with. When I do attend a race I will purchase from that raceway while I am there.


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#46 Justin A. Porter

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 02:03 PM

I find it particularly interesting that mail order or internet shopping remain quite so controversial within the hobby. 

 

https://www.hemmings...kis-auto-world/

 

Mail order to under-served customers of the hobby has been around effectively since the earliest days of the hobby. Without it, the manufacturers lose customers because a hobbyist who cannot get the tools of his hobby FINDS ANOTHER HOBBY. Fewer customers leads to smaller production runs of costlier components by smaller manufacturers who oftentimes cannot handle escalated product demand. 

 

But it's not like we're facing anything of that sort in the hobby right now...


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#47 Matt Sheldon

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 02:48 PM

I understand the OP's intent and logic, but in this day in age it is a fairytale to think it can be reality as a whole. To start, slotcar racing and a raceways chance of survival is regional. You just cannot deny that the heavily populated areas that slotcars thrive are also the areas where the successful raceways are. Personally I have never seen a raceway grossly overpriced compared to mail order, or not enough to even be a decision maker. No matter what arguement you want to make about the $10 you save kills your raceway, there will always be those that still do it.....always!

 

Back when we had a "local track" I was committing to $400 a week in parts. If I was lucky the track would get in 25% of what I ordered. I am very patient when it comes to ordering parts, but after a month or so passes you have to do what you have to do to keep racing (I am hard on equipment). I confirmed numerous times that the parts simply were not getting ordered opposed to them not being in stock at the distributor which left me no choice. Now the track we race at once a month rarely carries normal replacement parts (tires etc.) so every racer orders them elsewhere prior to coming. There are plenty out there still supporting their local tracks or at least trying to, but that doesnt mean that the money spent is put back into the raceway either.

 

Not a blanket cure here.


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#48 Markomatic

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 02:51 PM

I believe in and do support my local raceway as much as I can. I am fortunate that I have two tracks a little over an hour away and maybe two about 2 hours away. If more raceways did more mailorder they would still get their piece of the pie. Too many tracks rely on who walks in the door. The world has changed and frankly I have a hard time spending 4 hours round trip to drive to Swiss's track. I email Mike and I pay and he ships the order. Easy peasy. If he or any track had an online store I would use that too. Back in the 90's in NJ there were 6 or 8 tracks within an hour. You had to travel to see who had the parts you needed but usually someone had them.


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#49 John Streisguth

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 02:57 PM

I understand the OP's intent and logic, but in this day in age it is a fairytale to think it can be reality as a whole. To start, slotcar racing and a raceways chance of survival is regional. You just cannot deny that the heavily populated areas that slotcars thrive are also the areas where the successful raceways are. Personally I have never seen a raceway grossly overpriced compared to mail order, or not enough to even be a decision maker. No matter what arguement you want to make about the $10 you save kills your raceway, there will always be those that still do it.....always!

 

Back when we had a "local track" I was committing to $400 a week in parts. If I was lucky the track would get in 25% of what I ordered. I am very patient when it comes to ordering parts, but after a month or so passes you have to do what you have to do to keep racing (I am hard on equipment). I confirmed numerous times that the parts simply were not getting ordered opposed to them not being in stock at the distributor which left me no choice. Now the track we race at once a month rarely carries normal replacement parts (tires etc.) so every racer orders them elsewhere prior to coming. There are planty out there still supporting their local tracks or at least trying to, but that doesnt mean that the money spent is put back into the raceway either.

 

Not a blanket cure here.

If a business owner refuses to have what the customers want to buy, why is he in business?  Or is the question... how?


"Whatever..."

#50 Matt Sheldon

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 02:59 PM

If a business owner refuses to have what the customers want to buy, why is he in business?  Or is the question... how?

I guess that only strengthens my statement "when we had"


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