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Which is better - K&B BobCat or Royal BobCat?


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#1 Gator Bob

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 06:49 PM

The 4th annual Rods & Rails has these 2 choices as a 'spec' EBD motor for the Stock body class.

 

Any one with knowledge or experience with these motors please explain the differences.  

 

K&B BobCat #1501

K&B Royal BobCat #1500

 

 

Model car tech journal Vol. 1 lists the Royal Bobcat as a 600A series (FT36 EBD) 9 volt, no mention of a plain Bobcat .... or any K&B 600B (FT36-D Can Drive).

 

 


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#2 Gator Bob

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 07:16 PM

We had a discussion about these over on DC-Punk.

 

I'll bring some of it over.

The 1501 and 1500 FT36-D has a step bearing carrier for C clip.

 

I'm not sure what Steve O has shown on sloblog. I never saw a can drive Bobcat. They could be out there, #1502 or #1499 ?? lol

 

No a K&B expert here.
Here is what I think-
- There was a FT36 with no brush holders, different part#, as used in those POS full plastic chassis 'rental' cars. Once I tried one of those on a King track I never looked at another K&B car or product back then.
- The 1501 came after the 1500 ???.. I know the part # system for slot manuf. was F'ed up but who is dumb smart enough to do a part number scheme working backwards.

- The data sheet says Royal but the picture on the sheet doesn't.  Why/who knows?

 


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#3 slotbaker

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 07:40 PM

Steve O'Keefe's Can Spotters Guides;
Mabuchi FT-36, shows the endbell drive K&B Bobcat.
Mabuchi FT-36D, shows the can drive K&B Royal Bobcat.


Steve King


#4 Gator Bob

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 07:47 PM

Thing of it is ... those don't match up to the 1500 or 1501 motors in hand.

 

I think the non-brush holder clunky bearing motors were in those plastic bottom turtles cars. 

 

Looking for the pictures of the spec sheets that comes in the box.

There is so little difference in the 'curves' ... amp, rpm, tqe, watts...etc.

 

Wondering what a "9volt" wind is on these.


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#5 Gator Bob

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 08:57 PM

1500 and 1501 both have the brush holders/heatsinks
The 1500 sticker says Royal Bobcat
The 1501 sticker says Bobcat 

 

 

From what I can tell .... The only real difference is the label and watts at a given RPM

 

 

All I know is that a bobcat 36D i had was endbell drive with no brush tubes and had the non grooved can bearing holder

 

Now I'm confused, the data sheet says 1500 Royal Bobcat but the sticker on the motor in that picture doesn't.

The tech specs on my NOS NIBox Bobcat #1501 show the same, 27,500...etc. The dyno graph is slightly different

 


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#6 Gator Bob

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 09:02 PM

Royal Bobcat 005r.jpg


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#7 Gator Bob

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 12:50 AM

Here is the plain BobCat 1501 sheet.

 IMG_5302.JPG

 

 


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#8 Tom Katsanis

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 01:57 AM

Hi Bob it would be cool if you could get someone to lay those graphs over each other the specs read the same I can't see on the Royal sheet if it was wound for 12 v or 9 v which is what I thought the royal was supposed to be wound at the graph on the royal looks like it pulls more amps at higher revs I don't know if that is just for the peak power or power underload as each motor claims 27 500 as peak revs.I have only royal motors & they seem ok in my stocker the ultimate test would be to set a car up seeing that we have a set ratio & just see which motor pulls the best e.t otherwise the royal is looking better to me.
Tom
Thanks for posting those spec sheets Bob.

#9 Ramcatlarry

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 09:35 AM

In the old days, we talked about being 'wound for X volts' and rarely knew what the # of turns and wire gauge was.  The stock 12 volt wind may have varied for different brand contracts and different batches of motors that were ordered as well.

Current '16D' arms are 70T of 30 ga as a current 12 volt standard.  Most early motors are more like current SCX homeset motors with about 100 turns of #32 gauge wire...also similar to the Proslot 4001 series motor.


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#10 Champion 507

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 07:53 AM

Bob,

 

ROYAL Bobcat is the answer simply because the brushes ride in a metal brush holder or "heat sink" in the endbell and do not touch the nylon part of the endbell as they do in the older standard Bobcat. The Royal Bobcat is basically just a newer version of the Bobcat. In round figures, the Bobcats were made in 1965 and the Royal Bobcats were made in 1966.

 

They BOTH have arms wound with 110 turns of #31 wire. As with all mass produced "cheap" electric motors, you will find some that are better performers than others.

 

The ONLY Mabuchi can drive motor sold by K&B was the little "13-D". ALL K&B 16-D's, 26-D's and 36-D's were endbell drive

 

The 13-D's and 16-D's were wound with 110 turns of #33. The 26-D's were wound with 75 turns of #30. The 36-D's were wound with 110 turns of #31.


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#11 Gator Bob

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 09:38 AM

Doug the #1500 and #1501 both have the brush holders.

The motors are rated at 9v for the Royal BobCat and 12v for the BobCat.

Could the winds be the same?

The performance graph is very close between the two.

 

post-3883-0-78718900-1505931803.jpg


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#12 Pitt Man

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 02:04 PM

Aha!

 

I see your confusion, Bob!

 

What you have there are two Royal Bobcats, one with a standard Bobcat sticker on it.

 

As you can see in these pics, the 1501 Bobcat has NO brush holders/heatsinks.

 

The endbells are also somewhat of a mirror image of each other on the 1500 and 1501.

 

014r.jpg

 

015r.jpg

 

 

 


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#13 Gator Bob

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 02:54 PM

That just added to it... :laugh2:


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#14 Gator Bob

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 03:16 PM

I figured there was a first gen (POS) that was used in those plastic bottom K&B RTRs.

Ever see one of those punched on a King....  :clapping: You could win 'Loudest Wallshot" with those. :laugh2:

 

 

OK :

I have two NOS NIB #1501 'BobCat' labeled motors with instruction/data sheet enclosed, press on brass 10t,  it 'looks' just like the Royals

 

Part #s

If the Royal came later why is the part # 1 digit lower 1500 vs. 1501

 

Instruction sheet

They both show gen one FT36 in the drawings

The specs seem closer then they would be if it was a FT36 vs. FT36-D. I think the FT36 had a milder wind. Does the explain the 12v vs. 9v rating?  

If the BobCats that I have are labeled wrong/different and it should have been a no brush holder motor in the box with that spec sheet?

 

Pitt Man,  do you have boxes/data sheets with your motors.?

Does anyone have a catalog or magazine ad for these 'killer' motors :laugh2:

 

So .. there are three revisions on the motors. Steve O's - 'Can ID' section shows a can driver version. Anybody have or seen one?


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#15 Pitt Man

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 09:20 PM

Hey Bob,

 

Yup, I do have the boxes and spec sheets.

 

Looks like K&B took shortcuts when printing up the newer 1500's motor spec sheet.

 

I see they reused the drawings of the 1501 on the 1500's sheet.

 

Curiously, my 1501 came with both a steel pinion and steel rear motor mount, where as the 1500's are both brass??

 

I own three of the later built 1500's and only one 1501 and they all rev up and sound the same as each other (within reason) so I believe they ARE the same wind.

 

022.JPG

 

025.JPG

 

As to why the 1500 came after the 1501, I think Joe Dirt's daddy could explain it to us. :unknw:

 

 


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#16 Gator Bob

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 04:07 PM

Good one !

 

Ok looks like we're getting closer...lol

 

Bob, does the 1501 box have a label on the side with the number 59-6482 this could be a revision #.

That's the one on the left with brush tubes ... correct?

 

So will the real Voltage please stand up.

 

I've got 4 NOS 1501 w/ brass pinion - 2 with full tinned brass mounts. Two used Royals.... That should be enough..lol


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#17 Pitt Man

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 10:57 AM

My 1501 box has three stickers on it, all price tags.

 

Let's see if we can ID everything properly. :umnik2:

 

Here's the Bobcat 1501, a FT36, early build on the left.

 

Notice the solid rear bushing holder and riveted hardware on the end bell with NO brush tubes.

 

Then the Royal Bobcat 1500, later build FT36D on the right.

 

Notice the grooved rear bushing holder and screwed in end bell hardware WITH brush tubes.

 

013r.jpg

 

005r.jpg

 

 


Bob Steere

#18 Gator Bob

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 11:26 AM

THanks Bob,

 

Somehow I got 4 1501s in the same 1501 boxes you show that must be 1500 Royals with a plain BobCat sticker..

 

The key might be in the 59-6482 number sticker on the end of the box.

 

I'll go through the 6 on hand to find "the Best" one in the group.


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#19 Pitt Man

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 11:48 AM

Hmmm, wonder if K&B was just using up old stock on their boxes and stickers when the FT36D came out????

 

 

By the way, Bob, after you said your 1501 motor mount was fully tinned brass, I checked mine and sure enough, non magnetic. I assumed it was steel, still in the sealed baggie I had missed that! :D 


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#20 Gator Bob

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 12:48 PM

Must be it....

 

That 'Tin Job' had me completely fooled too. It's thick

 

So far we've found three versions.

What about the can drive version shown in Steve O's "Can Spotters Guide" ?

 

It's cool that these are still Good N Plenty.  


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Posted 17 October 2017 - 09:21 AM

Okay, I'll say this one more time. There is NO can drive K&B 36D. I helped Steve Okeefe put that spotter's guide together several years ago. I am even the one who gave him the name "Mabuchi Motor Spotter's Guide". Steve and I are former train guys. There is a book out called "Diesel Locomotive Spotter's Guide" which depicts the hundreds of different diesel locomotives manufactured for the real railroads since the 1930's. That's where the idea came from and he liked it.

 

When he was sending me the various test pages for his compilation, he incorrectly had the 36D can drive K&B Bobcat pictured. I wrote him back and told him ALL Bobcats (including Royals) were endbell drive only. But for some reason he never corrected the entry.

 

THE ONLY CAN DRIVE K&B MABUCHI MOTOR EVER MADE WAS THE LITTLE 13-D.


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#22 Gator Bob

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 03:52 PM

Thanks for the clarification 'Agent 507'. :good:


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