Jump to content




Photo

New Argentine HP guide flag


  • Please log in to reply
55 replies to this topic

#1 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,076 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 26 September 2017 - 02:51 PM

For the non-Facebooker's here on Slotblog;

 

22008130_10212845990677881_2703115248458


  • Lee Palmer and Jaeger Team like this

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.





#2 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,076 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 26 September 2017 - 02:59 PM

PS: I don't have any idea what the theory is on it, but it should be faster if your slot is filled with water.


  • tonyp, Dallas Racer, The Number of and 3 others like this

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#3 The Number of

The Number of

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,440 posts
  • Joined: 29-February 08
  • Gender:Male

Posted 26 September 2017 - 03:10 PM

Will you test that theory and get back to us? :)
  • Mike Patterson likes this
Bill Fulmer

The lack of any credible evidence is proof the conspiracy is working!

#4 Racer36

Racer36

    Race Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 629 posts
  • Joined: 09-October 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada

Posted 26 September 2017 - 03:16 PM

Does Evinrude make slot car motors?


  • MSwiss likes this

Dennis Dominey

Lifelong half-assed slot racer


#5 Steve Deiters

Steve Deiters

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,881 posts
  • Joined: 28-May 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cincinnati, OH

Posted 26 September 2017 - 04:31 PM

I seem to remember guide flags like that way back when. Like the mid-'60s.

#6 gotboostedvr6

gotboostedvr6

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,290 posts
  • Joined: 19-July 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mt. Laurel

Posted 26 September 2017 - 04:42 PM

Aqua blade would be a good nickname
  • MSwiss likes this

Those who work for a living are being quickly overwhelmed by those who vote for a living.

Thomas Jefferson: "Paper is poverty. It is only the ghost of money, and not money itself."
-David Parrotta


#7 Jim Lange

Jim Lange

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 231 posts
  • Joined: 08-February 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Simi Valley

Posted 26 September 2017 - 05:03 PM

I have to admit, I was reluctant to believe the new style Red Fox was faster till I tried it myself. I will not pooh-pooh this guide till I try them. Obviously there is speed to be had with the guide that most of us so called "backyard engineers" don't fully understand. Is it the geometry? Is it from reduced friction because of the hardness of the material or the geometry? Is it a combination of the two?
  • Tim Neja likes this

#8 Dominator

Dominator

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,989 posts
  • Joined: 19-September 07
  • Gender:Male

Posted 26 September 2017 - 06:30 PM

Looks like the blade extends behind the post further than on traditional guides.

A motor is only as fast as the chassis it's in.
 
Dominic Luongo

Like Dominator Custom Chassis on Facebook

 

NERR photos from 2012-April 2016
NERR photos from 2016 to now


#9 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,076 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 26 September 2017 - 06:58 PM

I have to admit, I was reluctant to believe the new style Red Fox was faster till I tried it myself. I will not pooh-pooh this guide till I try them. Obviously there is speed to be had with the guide that most of us so called "backyard engineers" don't fully understand. Is it the geometry? Is it from reduced friction because of the hardness of the material or the geometry? Is it a combination of the two?


My feelings exactly, Jim.
 
I almost prefaced my post #2 with "I don't quite understand the theory behind the Red Fox guide so I certainly (don't have any idea on the theory on the Argentine one)
 
Racers will just have to try them.
 
If they are faster, guys will buy a lot of them.
 
If they break at the post, I'll attempt to pin them. :laugh2:
 
Jim,
Speaking of pinning, I took credit for the 1, 2, 3 sweep in F1 at BP this weekend.
 
I've sold them to you and Dale, but not to Sam.
 
Can I assume it was one I did?
 
If not, I certainly don't want to take credit (but until I hear others are doing it, I will. LOL)
  • tonyp likes this

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#10 miko

miko

    X Speed & Sport Racer

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 176 posts
  • Joined: 01-September 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lincoln City, OR

Posted 26 September 2017 - 07:18 PM

My two cents. Excuse the crude drawing but i think that the airfoil shape may be less drag against the sides of the slot. The top shows the straight guide with possibly the whole side of the guide touching the slot. The airfoil shape has a smaller area that would touch the slot at any given time. The arrows point to the area that would be touching the slot. Again just my tow cents.

 

IMG_0291.jpg


  • Craig likes this
Marinko Mueller

#11 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,076 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 26 September 2017 - 07:36 PM

I've tried 86 or 87 ways to make a guide shoe faster, and reducing drag against the sides of the slot didn't work.
 
You can drill the flag to do that, and someone sold a flag with large, round, slight depressions in the sides of the blade, and they weren't anything special.

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#12 Rob Voska

Rob Voska

    Race Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 543 posts
  • Joined: 12-April 08

Posted 26 September 2017 - 09:46 PM

and someone sold a flag with large, round, slight depressions in the sides of the blade,

 
Slick 7 made those. The relief filled up with gunk.

#13 Zippity

Zippity

    Posting Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,600 posts
  • Joined: 05-March 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wellington, New Zealand

Posted 26 September 2017 - 09:50 PM

Thin teflon strips added to the blade seem to work - but the blades need to be thinned a bit, otherwise they jam in the slot. :(

#14 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,076 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 26 September 2017 - 10:15 PM

Slick 7 made those.  The relief filled up with gunk.


Rob,

Thanks for the heads-up.

They should work well on my upcoming 1/24 "Oscar" track cleaning car.

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#15 tonyp

tonyp

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,754 posts
  • Joined: 12-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sanford, FL, land of lizards and big roaches

Posted 26 September 2017 - 10:27 PM

I noticed the Red Fox guides on our tracks down here pick up a lot of crud on the blade about 1/4 from the front. Parmas never seemed to do this.

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
Noose Painted Bodies
Retro East co-founder
American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
Arco Champion
Car Model Magazine Series Amateur Champion
2016 ORS Anglewinder Constructors Championsh
ip


#16 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,076 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 26 September 2017 - 11:10 PM

Tony,

Are you implying the Parma flag is lazy? LOL.

I've noticed that on one of my racer's RF guide, that's on his hardbody car.

Also, for suppose to being real hard, they seem to wear a fair amount.

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#17 kvanpelt

kvanpelt

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,021 posts
  • Joined: 29-January 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:IL

Posted 27 September 2017 - 09:56 AM

I wonder if the pink ones will be faster, too! :umnik2:

Kevin VanPelt
 
"Life is too short to worry about the things we cannot change. Go to work, love your family, worship your God and try to enjoy your damn life." KVP

 

 


#18 Jim Lange

Jim Lange

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 231 posts
  • Joined: 08-February 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Simi Valley

Posted 27 September 2017 - 10:15 AM

Mike, as you know, I stock them and I sold some to the Cervantes and Earl McCutchen. Not sure where Sam got his. Pretty sure no one is pinning them other than you. Just put one on our Enduro car. (Living on the edge, LOL.)

#19 A. J. Hoyt

A. J. Hoyt

    Race Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 593 posts
  • Joined: 27-March 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Louisville, CO

Posted 27 September 2017 - 10:22 AM

Not sure about the validity of the physics on this one. The widest point is in front of the post (pivot) which would steer the guide to the other side, causing it to bump from side to side on the straight sections when it seems obvious it would be preferable to spend the least amount of time in contact with the slot vertical walls (less friction drag running right down the middle, not contacting either side excessively). It might not be a time duration issue but one of friction generated by the magnitude of the side (normal) force. If it actually helps to minimize that time (or force) of contact, then that would be faster.

 

I can't even begin to speculate on what is happening in the corners. I have done computer simulations of slot contact using Adams high-end Multi-Body Dynamics software (it's what I have been doing for all of my employers since becoming an Applications Engineer for the company, now MSC, 20 years ago).

 

These simulations consistently show that the guide initially hits the slot wall HARD in the corners, then bounce to the inside wall, then less hard to the outside wall until about 90 degrees in where it stops bouncing and lays against the outside wall of the slot so it remains in contact for the second half of a typical 180 degree corner (flat or banked).

 

Knowing this has not caused me to change my chassis designs nor my driving style so it's not done me any good. I've said it before; the more I try to apply real engineering to slot cars, the less I know about what makes them work. It humbles me every time I try. I offer these observations because it might give others some ideas... 

 

What is important to know is that the friction is independent of the area of contact area, a fact I learned in high school physics (thanks, Mr. Williams, a personality very reminiscent of Mike Swiss - I'll just bet Nelson will agree!) but many degree holding mechanical engineers don't know this when quizzed on it. They go to the intuitive answer - more contact area creates more friction and it is never true (unless there is adhesive or high coefficient of friction fluid present). The physics math couldn't be more clear and Mr. Williams demonstrated this convincingly.

 

In the mean time, I certainly applaud the efforts to try something new. The simulation models respond to the shape of the contact so I can try this "aero wing chord" shape in Adams and see what it actually does - in theory, of course, as there are just so many variables in the modeling. I am working with Adams every day and it could be a nice evening project.

 

Keep it in the slot (never more profoundly and appropriately expressed),

 

AJ


  • Cheater, Mike K, MSwiss and 4 others like this

Never complacent - striving to race to ever increasing levels of mediocrity!

 

The only thing I know about slot cars is if I had a good time when I leave the building! I can count the times I didn't on one hand!

Entitlement:
The notion that one can have their slot car racing and EAT IT, too!

Former Home Track - Slot Car Speedway and Hobbies
, Longmont, CO, Noteworthy for the 155' Hillclimb track featuring the THUNDER-DONUT - "Two men enter; one man leaves!"


#20 Racer36

Racer36

    Race Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 629 posts
  • Joined: 09-October 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada

Posted 27 September 2017 - 10:29 AM

This sounds like a problem for Prof. Irwin Corey!


Dennis Dominey

Lifelong half-assed slot racer


#21 JohnnySlotcar

JohnnySlotcar

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,913 posts
  • Joined: 26-August 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Barrington, IL

Posted 27 September 2017 - 10:46 AM

Perhaps they were designed for the Falkland Islands campaign!


John Austin

#22 gc4895

gc4895

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 320 posts
  • Joined: 04-March 16
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Walnut Creek, CA

Posted 27 September 2017 - 12:23 PM

Wow, cool. I'm going to take a mill bastard to my Red Fox guides and hone them into shape!


Mark Bauer

#23 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,076 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 September 2017 - 12:24 PM

What is important to know is that the friction is independent of the area of contact area, a fact I learned in high school physics (thanks, Mr. Williams, a personality very reminiscent of Mike Swiss - I'll just bet Nelson will agree!) but many degree holding mechanical engineers don't know this when quizzed on it. They go to the intuitive answer - more contact area creates more friction and it is never true (unless there is adhesive or high coefficient of friction fluid present). The physics math couldn't be more clear and Mr. Williams demonstrated this convincingly.


AJ,
 
Thanks for chiming in.
 
Mr. Williams sounds like he was super-charming.
 
When I posed the question of the theory of the design to the maker, he confirmed, "less friction."
 
I guess we'll see.
 
Speaking of new guide shoes, I wonder what the story is on the below. LOL.
 
20170927_113918-1.jpg
  • NSwanberg likes this

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#24 Eddie Fleming

Eddie Fleming

    Race Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 955 posts
  • Joined: 27-April 14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fayetteville, GA

Posted 27 September 2017 - 12:30 PM

So, Mike, have you tried these and are you going to sell them?
Eddie Fleming

#25 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,076 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 September 2017 - 12:37 PM

I just saw the ones in the first post, yesterday, on Facebook.

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#26 Ramcatlarry

Ramcatlarry

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,968 posts
  • Joined: 08-March 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:St Charles, IL 60174

Posted 27 September 2017 - 12:54 PM

I can understand, in the physics world, that the fluid dynamics of air and water are similar. So the airfoil shape is more slippery. Also, the highest friction point on a flag should be the pressure contact at the post (center of motion), although we all know that they wear at other places as well.


Larry D. Kelley, MA
retired raceway owner... (for now)
race directing around Chicago-land

USRA 2017 member #404
USSCA  member

Host 2006 ISRA/USA
Great Lakes Slot Car Club member
60+ year pin Racing rail/slot cars in America


#27 Dave Crevie

Dave Crevie

    Race Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 918 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 09

Posted 27 September 2017 - 01:25 PM

When I was a kid we tried sanding the sides of the blade with a convex shape, which was not airfoil. We also wet sanded the sides with increasingly finer silicon carbide paper until the sides were mirror smooth. I don't think there was any improvement in speed. But we were running slab-bottomed pan car chassis, and it was what everyone else was doing. We always copied what the other guys were doing, whether it worked or not.


  • Samiam likes this

#28 Dallas Racer

Dallas Racer

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,652 posts
  • Joined: 03-November 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dallas, TX

Posted 27 September 2017 - 02:06 PM

I thought about the post being in the back last night how that changes how that guide works. But I guess that's kind of true for any guide.

 

Has there ever been a guide with a post that's centrally located to the blade fore and aft?


Phil Smith ® ™


#29 Ralph Thorne

Ralph Thorne

    Posting Leader

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,057 posts
  • Joined: 30-September 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Snellville, GA

Posted 27 September 2017 - 02:09 PM

The HP flags have been around for awhile, I believe this the picture Mike posted is just the updated or alternate blade design. The "submarine" shape of the blade will reduce drag  against the slot walls and eliminate the chance of the flag getting hung up on misaligned joints ( yes I've seen that happen) and it will allow the guide flag a few more degrees of rotation in the slot.

 

Here's the previous (standard) design...

 

HP Guide.jpg


  • JerseyJohn and miko like this

#30 Ralph Thorne

Ralph Thorne

    Posting Leader

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,057 posts
  • Joined: 30-September 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Snellville, GA

Posted 27 September 2017 - 02:12 PM

I noticed the Red Fox guides on our tracks down here pick up a lot of crud on the blade about 1/4 from the front. Parmas never seemed to do this.

 

The Parma's probably do too; it just isn't as noticeable since the flag is black.



#31 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,076 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 September 2017 - 02:16 PM

The "submarine" shape of the blade will reduce drag against the slot walls

 

See posts 11, 12, and 19.


Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#32 A. J. Hoyt

A. J. Hoyt

    Race Leader

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 593 posts
  • Joined: 27-March 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Louisville, CO

Posted 27 September 2017 - 03:11 PM

Mike,

 

Your most recent post looks like a 3D printed guide, not a molded part. What is it?

 

And, yes, Nelson and I both enjoyed Mr. William's idiosyncrasies and comments, retain and reciting many of his quotes to this day. He lives forever in our hearts. Nelson even went on to get a physics degree and I an engineering degree so he was influential.


Never complacent - striving to race to ever increasing levels of mediocrity!

 

The only thing I know about slot cars is if I had a good time when I leave the building! I can count the times I didn't on one hand!

Entitlement:
The notion that one can have their slot car racing and EAT IT, too!

Former Home Track - Slot Car Speedway and Hobbies
, Longmont, CO, Noteworthy for the 155' Hillclimb track featuring the THUNDER-DONUT - "Two men enter; one man leaves!"


#33 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,076 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 September 2017 - 03:22 PM

Not sure.

 

It's from either Upper, or Lower Slobbovia.


Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#34 team burrito

team burrito

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,688 posts
  • Joined: 15-September 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SF Bay area

Posted 27 September 2017 - 09:25 PM

This should work better...

 

MG_7766-1024x682.jpg


  • MSwiss likes this
Russ Toy (not Troy)
First Place Loser in the JK Products
International D3 Builders Competition

#35 LindsayB

LindsayB

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 247 posts
  • Joined: 11-August 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sydney, Australia

Posted 28 September 2017 - 02:12 AM

Maybe they are designed for drag racing.


Lindsay Byron

#36 kvanpelt

kvanpelt

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,021 posts
  • Joined: 29-January 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:IL

Posted 28 September 2017 - 01:36 PM

I took my inspiration from Professor Phineas J. Whoopee and Professor Roy Hinkley! :victory:


Kevin VanPelt
 
"Life is too short to worry about the things we cannot change. Go to work, love your family, worship your God and try to enjoy your damn life." KVP

 

 


#37 Steve Deiters

Steve Deiters

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,881 posts
  • Joined: 28-May 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cincinnati, OH

Posted 28 September 2017 - 01:39 PM

Didn't the "second generation" Associated "Steube" guide flag have a tapered point on it like that and I think ridges on the side?  Anyone have any pictures?



#38 CDavis7

CDavis7

    Backmarker

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 72 posts
  • Joined: 12-August 08
  • Gender:Male

Posted 28 September 2017 - 02:15 PM

The aerofoil shape of this guide flag may only make sense if the goal is reduced wind resistance in the slot.  Otherwise, in the turns, it's of little use.  In a curve, the surfaces contacting the groove are the leading and trailing edges of the flag anyways.  A curved flag in a matched radius curve would have more contact area, not less.

 

But if this flag proves faster, I'll buy 'em.


Chris Davis
3d-Racing

#39 gotboostedvr6

gotboostedvr6

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,290 posts
  • Joined: 19-July 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mt. Laurel

Posted 28 September 2017 - 03:57 PM

Mike,

On which facebook page did to find this flag posted?

Those who work for a living are being quickly overwhelmed by those who vote for a living.

Thomas Jefferson: "Paper is poverty. It is only the ghost of money, and not money itself."
-David Parrotta


#40 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,076 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 28 September 2017 - 04:03 PM

Daro Fernandez


Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#41 Guillermo Suar

Guillermo Suar

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 277 posts
  • Joined: 03-September 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mount Vernon, IN

Posted 28 September 2017 - 06:27 PM

I don't know about the idea on the guide, but I can tell you that in Argentina the hobby has been growing the last 10 years non stop. I see posts of new tracks openings all the time . Races with 40-50 cars attendance are not unusual there.

 

They have developed their own chassis, tires, gears, bodies and many others components. I know a guy who is manufacturing group 12 setups. His goal is to compete with Cahoza and I have no reason to believe he won't get to it.

 

Mike, I will be there for a week in December. I can grab a few guides for you if you wan to test some. 


  • MSwiss likes this
Because light travels faster than sound, some people appear to be bright until we hear them speaking.

#42 gotboostedvr6

gotboostedvr6

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,290 posts
  • Joined: 19-July 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mt. Laurel

Posted 28 September 2017 - 08:16 PM

Can you post links to some of the manufacturer's websites?

Those who work for a living are being quickly overwhelmed by those who vote for a living.

Thomas Jefferson: "Paper is poverty. It is only the ghost of money, and not money itself."
-David Parrotta


#43 Guillermo Suar

Guillermo Suar

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 277 posts
  • Joined: 03-September 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mount Vernon, IN

Posted 28 September 2017 - 10:34 PM

Not sure if they have web sites. I'll ask around. I know some have Facebook pages. I'll ask around.


Because light travels faster than sound, some people appear to be bright until we hear them speaking.

#44 usadar

usadar

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,140 posts
  • Joined: 12-January 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tokyo; Japan

Posted 29 September 2017 - 06:47 AM

Their website:

http://hpslotparts.w...m/hp-slot-parts

Haruki
Haruki Kan
Retro Tokyo
Retro Tokyo
Retro Tokyo on Facebook
 
Where do we go from here: chaos or community?

#45 Guillermo Suar

Guillermo Suar

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 277 posts
  • Joined: 03-September 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mount Vernon, IN

Posted 29 September 2017 - 01:50 PM

This is the facebook page. It appears to be more up to date. 

 

https://www.facebook...hp.slotparts.3/


Because light travels faster than sound, some people appear to be bright until we hear them speaking.

#46 Ralph Thorne

Ralph Thorne

    Posting Leader

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,057 posts
  • Joined: 30-September 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Snellville, GA

Posted 14 November 2017 - 11:48 AM

Just an FYI for anyone curious, here are a few flag measurement comparisons. Your measurements may vary, and no I don't have back to back track testing results.

 

Parma (cut down) blade length .980", deck thickness .023".

 

Red Fox (new version) blade length 1.052", deck thickness .028".

 

HP (original version) blade length 1.010", deck thickness .035".

 

HP (new version) blade length 1.110", deck thickness .035".



#47 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,076 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 14 November 2017 - 12:19 PM

Thanks for the data, Ralph.

Over the weekend, I saw a FB thread on the new guide.

50+ posts of racers side-stepping the question of whether they were fast or not.

There seemed to be more concern how they wore, or didn't wear.

I didn't realize guide shoe wear was some sort of problem in slot racing.Lol

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#48 Ralph Thorne

Ralph Thorne

    Posting Leader

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,057 posts
  • Joined: 30-September 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Snellville, GA

Posted 14 November 2017 - 12:30 PM

A few guys had the newest version at the USSCA Nats last weekend and claimed they were fast. Didn't hear anything specifically about any abnormal wear. One well known racer did a back to back track test against a Parma and said it was good for a tenth. No back to back with a new Red Fox though.



#49 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,076 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 14 November 2017 - 12:54 PM

I guess with all the Harvey Weinstein stuff going around, all the racers are afraid to go past 1st or 2nd base with it. Lol

What, is the HP - Red Fox, direct comparison, going to be a pay per view event?

Ralph, there's an idea for a BtL piece.

Ditch the weekly, 20 minute, "How many times Ron was out of the slot, over the past weekend, and the exact circumstances, behind them", segment, and go with a "blade y blade", HP vs. RF, showdown.


  • Wizard Of Iz, Half Fast and Matt Bruce like this

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#50 Ralph Thorne

Ralph Thorne

    Posting Leader

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,057 posts
  • Joined: 30-September 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Snellville, GA

Posted 14 November 2017 - 07:42 PM

Ralph, there's an idea for a BtL piece.

Ditch the weekly, 20 minute, "How many times Ron was out of the slot, over the past weekend, and the exact circumstances, behind them", segment, and go with a "blade y blade", HP vs. RF, showdown.

 

Possibly so, but your the guy who sells guide flags and has track nearby all day. LOL

 

While comparing some guides earlier I noticed this and I just wanted to bring this to your attention since the IRRA is the only ORG I can think of the top of my head with a specific guide spec, for a potential rules clarification or revision.

 

Current IRRA rules state a guide flag may have a blade no wider then .086" and no longer then 1.060".

 

I've purchased Red Fox guide flags in two lots, all being pink. The first batch was hot pink and the blade measured .085" wide. The second batch was a dull pink and the blade width was .090". Both batches had the same blade length, all within spec if you don't count that nipple hanging off the upper rear portion.

 

The new HP flag measure 1.150" long and it's .093".

 

The HP flag is obviously out of IRRA spec in all dimensions and it appears some Red Fox guides are OK and some aren't. Maybe a quick "spec" change would work to keep calipers out of the tech line?


  • Ramcatlarry likes this





Electric Dreams Online Shop