I can understand, in the physics world, that the fluid dynamics of air and water are similar. So the airfoil shape is more slippery. Also, the highest friction point on a flag should be the pressure contact at the post (center of motion), although we all know that they wear at other places as well.
New Argentine HP guide flag
#26
Posted 27 September 2017 - 12:54 PM
Larry D. Kelley, MA
retired raceway owner... Raceworld/Ramcat Raceways
racing around Chicago-land
Diode/Omni repair specialist
USRA 2023 member # 2322
IRRA,/Sano/R4 veteran, Flat track racer/MFTS
Host 2006 Formula 2000 & ISRA/USA Nats
Great Lakes Slot Car Club (1/32) member
65+ year pin Racing rail/slot cars in America
#27
Posted 27 September 2017 - 01:25 PM
When I was a kid we tried sanding the sides of the blade with a convex shape, which was not airfoil. We also wet sanded the sides with increasingly finer silicon carbide paper until the sides were mirror smooth. I don't think there was any improvement in speed. But we were running slab-bottomed pan car chassis, and it was what everyone else was doing. We always copied what the other guys were doing, whether it worked or not.
- Samiam likes this
#28
Posted 27 September 2017 - 02:06 PM
I thought about the post being in the back last night how that changes how that guide works. But I guess that's kind of true for any guide.
Has there ever been a guide with a post that's centrally located to the blade fore and aft?
???-2/31/23
Requiescat in Pace
#29
Posted 27 September 2017 - 02:09 PM
The HP flags have been around for awhile, I believe this the picture Mike posted is just the updated or alternate blade design. The "submarine" shape of the blade will reduce drag against the slot walls and eliminate the chance of the flag getting hung up on misaligned joints ( yes I've seen that happen) and it will allow the guide flag a few more degrees of rotation in the slot.
Here's the previous (standard) design...
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Ralph Thorne
ralph@ralphthorneracing.com
RTR Facebook page
#30
Posted 27 September 2017 - 02:12 PM
I noticed the Red Fox guides on our tracks down here pick up a lot of crud on the blade about 1/4 from the front. Parmas never seemed to do this.
The Parma's probably do too; it just isn't as noticeable since the flag is black.
Ralph Thorne
ralph@ralphthorneracing.com
RTR Facebook page
#31
Posted 27 September 2017 - 02:16 PM
The "submarine" shape of the blade will reduce drag against the slot walls
See posts 11, 12, and 19.
Mike Swiss
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559
#32
Posted 27 September 2017 - 03:11 PM
Mike,
Your most recent post looks like a 3D printed guide, not a molded part. What is it?
And, yes, Nelson and I both enjoyed Mr. William's idiosyncrasies and comments, retain and reciting many of his quotes to this day. He lives forever in our hearts. Nelson even went on to get a physics degree and I an engineering degree so he was influential.
Sorry about the nerf. "Sorry? Sorry? There's no apologizing in slot car racing!"
Besides, where would I even begin? I should probably start with my wife ...
"I don't often get very many "fast laps" but I very often get many laps quickly." ™
The only thing I know about slot cars is if I had a good time when I leave the building! I can count the times I didn't on one two three hands!
Former Home Track - Slot Car Speedway and Hobbies, Longmont, CO (now at Duffy's Raceway), Noteworthy for the 155' Hillclimb track featuring the THUNDER-DONUT - "Two men enter; one man leaves!"
#33
Posted 27 September 2017 - 03:22 PM
Not sure.
It's from either Upper, or Lower Slobbovia.
Mike Swiss
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559
#34
Posted 27 September 2017 - 09:25 PM
This should work better...
- MSwiss likes this
First Place Loser in the JK Products
International D3 Builders Competition
#35
Posted 28 September 2017 - 02:12 AM
Maybe they are designed for drag racing.
#36
Posted 28 September 2017 - 01:36 PM
I took my inspiration from Professor Phineas J. Whoopee and Professor Roy Hinkley!
?/?/56-6/12/23
Requiescat in Pace
#37
Posted 28 September 2017 - 01:39 PM
Didn't the "second generation" Associated "Steube" guide flag have a tapered point on it like that and I think ridges on the side? Anyone have any pictures?
#38
Posted 28 September 2017 - 02:15 PM
The aerofoil shape of this guide flag may only make sense if the goal is reduced wind resistance in the slot. Otherwise, in the turns, it's of little use. In a curve, the surfaces contacting the groove are the leading and trailing edges of the flag anyways. A curved flag in a matched radius curve would have more contact area, not less.
But if this flag proves faster, I'll buy 'em.
3d-Racing
#39
Posted 28 September 2017 - 03:57 PM
On which facebook page did to find this flag posted?
#40
Posted 28 September 2017 - 04:03 PM
Daro Fernandez
Mike Swiss
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559
#41
Posted 28 September 2017 - 06:27 PM
I don't know about the idea on the guide, but I can tell you that in Argentina the hobby has been growing the last 10 years non stop. I see posts of new tracks openings all the time . Races with 40-50 cars attendance are not unusual there.
They have developed their own chassis, tires, gears, bodies and many others components. I know a guy who is manufacturing group 12 setups. His goal is to compete with Cahoza and I have no reason to believe he won't get to it.
Mike, I will be there for a week in December. I can grab a few guides for you if you wan to test some.
- MSwiss likes this
Because light travels faster than sound, some people appear to be bright until we hear them speaking.
#42
Posted 28 September 2017 - 08:16 PM
#43
Posted 28 September 2017 - 10:34 PM
Not sure if they have web sites. I'll ask around. I know some have Facebook pages. I'll ask around.
Because light travels faster than sound, some people appear to be bright until we hear them speaking.
#44
Posted 29 September 2017 - 06:47 AM
Retro Tokyo
Retro Tokyo
Retro Tokyo on Facebook
Where do we go from here: chaos or community?
#45
Posted 29 September 2017 - 01:50 PM
Because light travels faster than sound, some people appear to be bright until we hear them speaking.
#46
Posted 14 November 2017 - 11:48 AM
Just an FYI for anyone curious, here are a few flag measurement comparisons. Your measurements may vary, and no I don't have back to back track testing results.
Parma (cut down) blade length .980", deck thickness .023".
Red Fox (new version) blade length 1.052", deck thickness .028".
HP (original version) blade length 1.010", deck thickness .035".
HP (new version) blade length 1.110", deck thickness .035".
Ralph Thorne
ralph@ralphthorneracing.com
RTR Facebook page
#47
Posted 14 November 2017 - 12:19 PM
Over the weekend, I saw a FB thread on the new guide.
50+ posts of racers side-stepping the question of whether they were fast or not.
There seemed to be more concern how they wore, or didn't wear.
I didn't realize guide shoe wear was some sort of problem in slot racing.Lol
Mike Swiss
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559
#48
Posted 14 November 2017 - 12:30 PM
A few guys had the newest version at the USSCA Nats last weekend and claimed they were fast. Didn't hear anything specifically about any abnormal wear. One well known racer did a back to back track test against a Parma and said it was good for a tenth. No back to back with a new Red Fox though.
Ralph Thorne
ralph@ralphthorneracing.com
RTR Facebook page
#49
Posted 14 November 2017 - 12:54 PM
I guess with all the Harvey Weinstein stuff going around, all the racers are afraid to go past 1st or 2nd base with it. Lol
What, is the HP - Red Fox, direct comparison, going to be a pay per view event?
Ralph, there's an idea for a BtL piece.
Ditch the weekly, 20 minute, "How many times Ron was out of the slot, over the past weekend, and the exact circumstances, behind them", segment, and go with a "blade y blade", HP vs. RF, showdown.
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Mike Swiss
Inventor of the Low CG guide flag 4/20/18
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden Ave., Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 692 Citadel Drive, Westmont, Illinois 60559
#50
Posted 14 November 2017 - 07:42 PM
Ralph, there's an idea for a BtL piece.
Ditch the weekly, 20 minute, "How many times Ron was out of the slot, over the past weekend, and the exact circumstances, behind them", segment, and go with a "blade y blade", HP vs. RF, showdown.
Possibly so, but your the guy who sells guide flags and has track nearby all day. LOL
While comparing some guides earlier I noticed this and I just wanted to bring this to your attention since the IRRA is the only ORG I can think of the top of my head with a specific guide spec, for a potential rules clarification or revision.
Current IRRA rules state a guide flag may have a blade no wider then .086" and no longer then 1.060".
I've purchased Red Fox guide flags in two lots, all being pink. The first batch was hot pink and the blade measured .085" wide. The second batch was a dull pink and the blade width was .090". Both batches had the same blade length, all within spec if you don't count that nipple hanging off the upper rear portion.
The new HP flag measure 1.150" long and it's .093".
The HP flag is obviously out of IRRA spec in all dimensions and it appears some Red Fox guides are OK and some aren't. Maybe a quick "spec" change would work to keep calipers out of the tech line?
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Ralph Thorne
ralph@ralphthorneracing.com
RTR Facebook page