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New Argentine HP guide flag


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#26 Ramcatlarry

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Posted 27 September 2017 - 12:54 PM

I can understand, in the physics world, that the fluid dynamics of air and water are similar. So the airfoil shape is more slippery. Also, the highest friction point on a flag should be the pressure contact at the post (center of motion), although we all know that they wear at other places as well.


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#27 Dave Crevie

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Posted 27 September 2017 - 01:25 PM

When I was a kid we tried sanding the sides of the blade with a convex shape, which was not airfoil. We also wet sanded the sides with increasingly finer silicon carbide paper until the sides were mirror smooth. I don't think there was any improvement in speed. But we were running slab-bottomed pan car chassis, and it was what everyone else was doing. We always copied what the other guys were doing, whether it worked or not.


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#28 Dallas Racer

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Posted 27 September 2017 - 02:06 PM

I thought about the post being in the back last night how that changes how that guide works. But I guess that's kind of true for any guide.

 

Has there ever been a guide with a post that's centrally located to the blade fore and aft?


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#29 Ralph Thorne

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Posted 27 September 2017 - 02:09 PM

The HP flags have been around for awhile, I believe this the picture Mike posted is just the updated or alternate blade design. The "submarine" shape of the blade will reduce drag  against the slot walls and eliminate the chance of the flag getting hung up on misaligned joints ( yes I've seen that happen) and it will allow the guide flag a few more degrees of rotation in the slot.

 

Here's the previous (standard) design...

 

HP Guide.jpg


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#30 Ralph Thorne

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Posted 27 September 2017 - 02:12 PM

I noticed the Red Fox guides on our tracks down here pick up a lot of crud on the blade about 1/4 from the front. Parmas never seemed to do this.

 

The Parma's probably do too; it just isn't as noticeable since the flag is black.



#31 MSwiss

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Posted 27 September 2017 - 02:16 PM

The "submarine" shape of the blade will reduce drag against the slot walls

 

See posts 11, 12, and 19.


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#32 A. J. Hoyt

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Posted 27 September 2017 - 03:11 PM

Mike,

 

Your most recent post looks like a 3D printed guide, not a molded part. What is it?

 

And, yes, Nelson and I both enjoyed Mr. William's idiosyncrasies and comments, retain and reciting many of his quotes to this day. He lives forever in our hearts. Nelson even went on to get a physics degree and I an engineering degree so he was influential.


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#33 MSwiss

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Posted 27 September 2017 - 03:22 PM

Not sure.

 

It's from either Upper, or Lower Slobbovia.


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#34 team burrito

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Posted 27 September 2017 - 09:25 PM

This should work better...

 

MG_7766-1024x682.jpg


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#35 LindsayB

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 02:12 AM

Maybe they are designed for drag racing.


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#36 kvanpelt

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 01:36 PM

I took my inspiration from Professor Phineas J. Whoopee and Professor Roy Hinkley! :victory:



#37 Steve Deiters

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 01:39 PM

Didn't the "second generation" Associated "Steube" guide flag have a tapered point on it like that and I think ridges on the side?  Anyone have any pictures?



#38 CDavis7

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 02:15 PM

The aerofoil shape of this guide flag may only make sense if the goal is reduced wind resistance in the slot.  Otherwise, in the turns, it's of little use.  In a curve, the surfaces contacting the groove are the leading and trailing edges of the flag anyways.  A curved flag in a matched radius curve would have more contact area, not less.

 

But if this flag proves faster, I'll buy 'em.


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#39 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 03:57 PM

Mike,

On which facebook page did to find this flag posted?
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free. - Ronald Regan #40 (1911 - 2004)

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#40 MSwiss

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 04:03 PM

Daro Fernandez


Mike Swiss
 
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#41 Guillermo Suar

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 06:27 PM

I don't know about the idea on the guide, but I can tell you that in Argentina the hobby has been growing the last 10 years non stop. I see posts of new tracks openings all the time . Races with 40-50 cars attendance are not unusual there.

 

They have developed their own chassis, tires, gears, bodies and many others components. I know a guy who is manufacturing group 12 setups. His goal is to compete with Cahoza and I have no reason to believe he won't get to it.

 

Mike, I will be there for a week in December. I can grab a few guides for you if you wan to test some. 


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#42 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 08:16 PM

Can you post links to some of the manufacturer's websites?
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free. - Ronald Regan #40 (1911 - 2004)

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#43 Guillermo Suar

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 10:34 PM

Not sure if they have web sites. I'll ask around. I know some have Facebook pages. I'll ask around.


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#44 usadar

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 06:47 AM

Their website:

http://hpslotparts.w...m/hp-slot-parts

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#45 Guillermo Suar

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 01:50 PM

This is the facebook page. It appears to be more up to date. 

 

https://www.facebook...hp.slotparts.3/


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#46 Ralph Thorne

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 11:48 AM

Just an FYI for anyone curious, here are a few flag measurement comparisons. Your measurements may vary, and no I don't have back to back track testing results.

 

Parma (cut down) blade length .980", deck thickness .023".

 

Red Fox (new version) blade length 1.052", deck thickness .028".

 

HP (original version) blade length 1.010", deck thickness .035".

 

HP (new version) blade length 1.110", deck thickness .035".



#47 MSwiss

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 12:19 PM

Thanks for the data, Ralph.

Over the weekend, I saw a FB thread on the new guide.

50+ posts of racers side-stepping the question of whether they were fast or not.

There seemed to be more concern how they wore, or didn't wear.

I didn't realize guide shoe wear was some sort of problem in slot racing.Lol

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#48 Ralph Thorne

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 12:30 PM

A few guys had the newest version at the USSCA Nats last weekend and claimed they were fast. Didn't hear anything specifically about any abnormal wear. One well known racer did a back to back track test against a Parma and said it was good for a tenth. No back to back with a new Red Fox though.



#49 MSwiss

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 12:54 PM

I guess with all the Harvey Weinstein stuff going around, all the racers are afraid to go past 1st or 2nd base with it. Lol

What, is the HP - Red Fox, direct comparison, going to be a pay per view event?

Ralph, there's an idea for a BtL piece.

Ditch the weekly, 20 minute, "How many times Ron was out of the slot, over the past weekend, and the exact circumstances, behind them", segment, and go with a "blade y blade", HP vs. RF, showdown.


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Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#50 Ralph Thorne

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 07:42 PM

Ralph, there's an idea for a BtL piece.

Ditch the weekly, 20 minute, "How many times Ron was out of the slot, over the past weekend, and the exact circumstances, behind them", segment, and go with a "blade y blade", HP vs. RF, showdown.

 

Possibly so, but your the guy who sells guide flags and has track nearby all day. LOL

 

While comparing some guides earlier I noticed this and I just wanted to bring this to your attention since the IRRA is the only ORG I can think of the top of my head with a specific guide spec, for a potential rules clarification or revision.

 

Current IRRA rules state a guide flag may have a blade no wider then .086" and no longer then 1.060".

 

I've purchased Red Fox guide flags in two lots, all being pink. The first batch was hot pink and the blade measured .085" wide. The second batch was a dull pink and the blade width was .090". Both batches had the same blade length, all within spec if you don't count that nipple hanging off the upper rear portion.

 

The new HP flag measure 1.150" long and it's .093".

 

The HP flag is obviously out of IRRA spec in all dimensions and it appears some Red Fox guides are OK and some aren't. Maybe a quick "spec" change would work to keep calipers out of the tech line?


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