22 replies to this topic

[Flathead]

Hello Gentlemen,

 

Further to my post "Can anyone shed some light", I would appreciate some help dating the contents of what I call the "Spicy meatball" box, so that I can build them to period correct spec.

 

 

Chassis 1-4 all have 3/32 axles.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Flathead]

Chassis 5-7 I'm more familiar with but thought I'd show them anyway. All 1/8 axles.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not sure if the offset pans on chassis #7 are bad fabrication or deliberate!

 

Thank you in advance for your time. Lee

[MSwiss]

I'll throw out some very non-expert opinions.

 

Steve O'Keefe, Tony P, or Rick Thigpen follow era's much, much closer.

 

70-71 on 1, 2 , & 3 (maybe late 69)

68 on 5 & 7

67 on 6

 

The fairly unique one is 4.

 

It's a bit different then anything I've ever seen, and pretty cool.

 

Maybe as early as 71, but maybe 72 or 73.

[Flathead]

Thanks for your input Mike.

[tonyp]

1 ,2, 3, I’d say early '70s.

[Phil Hackett]

3/32" axles would be 1970 or later. I guess #1 is a 1973-ish chassis than the others because there weren't many flat spring steel chassis before 1973 and it still has the straight front axle tube instead of the "L" front wheel set-up.

[MSwiss]

Phil,

 

That's why I found #4 so interesting.

 

It's mixing eras.

[Samiam]

Let's not forget that some chassis changed overnight in the hotel room. I just won an Ebay chassis lot with one that looks like it was hastily converted from inline to angle winder. A real mess.

[Bill from NH]

Sam, that's how some  early anglewinders were  built. Show us a photo of what you have. Who knows, you might have a valuable antique.

[jimht]

Still have some of that steel rail center on #1 somewhere, had to take a torch to the rear uprights to get them at a 90.

 

All of the first 4 look like they were built for motor brackets, whether they're still there or not. That would place them no later than 1973.

 

#4 looks to be hand cut, very tidy. But, the pillow blocks on #4 look like production pieces that wouldn't have been available in 1973.

[Flathead]

I guess #1 is a 1973ish chassis than the others because there weren't many flat spring steel chassis before 1973 

 

Phil are you sure you mean #1 as I have my dads last race chassis and it almost identical to #1 with hand cut steel center . It has its original motor that is dated nov 69. 

 

Mike, I forgot to mention that #4 is all steel construction, pans are machined thinner toward center of chassis, also guide tongue has the center milled to half thickness.

[Phil Hackett]

I remember spring steel chassis being rare and expensive in the 1960s. They became more common right around 1971-72. 

[Flathead]

Hi Phil I'm not saying that the steel center was common, but these two are remarkably similar.

 

 

 

 

My dad raced in the south London league and got out of slots sometime mid 70. 

 

Below is taken from a report covering the Arco race at Tottenham (north London) track, also November 69.

So maybe not the norm but also not uncommon.

 

 

Regards Lee

[Bill from NH]

Lee, I'm no expert on steel chassis, but the steel center sections you show appear almost identical. The right chassis has had its steel cross piece removed & replaced with a brass strip & piano wire. The right chassis has also had its outer rails milled narrower, Some have previously said this chassis piece with full outer rails , like yours on the left, did not exist, but your photo proves them wrong. These steel center sections were available both for gears on the right side & gears on the left side.

[Flathead]

 

 

#4 looks to be hand cut, very tidy. But, the pillow blocks on #4 look like production pieces that wouldn't have been available in 1973.

Jim,

I'm 98% sure that #4 is all hand cut including the pillow blocks as all edges have fine file or sanding marks.

Axle holes are not center of the outside radius of pillow blocks and they both have different shapes with file flat spots.

Also nothing quite matches side to side, being off by up to 12 thou.

Whoever cut it had access to a milling machine as both pans and guide tongue are milled, as are two slots for pillow blocks to sit into center section.

[tonyp]

The 2 steel cars are centersections sold by several companies. The one with the thinner outer rails was the one sold by burley raceway. I used to build my steel chassis like the one on the right.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[zipper]

#1 has Nutley steel center (cut) and Steube/Associated drop arm.

[Flathead]

Bill My dads chassis on the left is hand cut steel and brass made by a chap named McDonald who went on to race R/C cars. If you open the full size image you can just see the scribe marks at the end of the tuning fork slots.

 

#1 Chassis center section looks to be a modified production piece but I'm not 100% on this, as whoever built these chassis had access to some pretty serious machinery. See my comments on #4.

[Flathead]

The 2 steel cars are centersections sold by several companies. The one with the thinner outer rails was the one sold by burley raceway. I used to build my steel chassis like the one on the right.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Tony,

If the top builders were hand making steel centers by the end of 69, Roughly how long would it have been before a production version hit the market?

[tonyp]

I think 1970.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Flathead]

Thanks Tony,

Does that sit well with the Steube/Associated drop arm. as identified by Zipper? (Thanks Zipper)

Had the Mura B can been dropped by the pros, by this time?

 

[tonyp]

I believe so. I’m not real good on dates.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TSR]

While several racers had already hand cut spring-steel rails by the end of 1969 (invented by Jerry Brady, generally used in two separate rails, then a single piece as first built by Mike Morrissey, the one that started commercial parts) the steel center sections available at the counter were not manufactured before the beginning of 1970 (first by Associated/SimCo using the Steube name), and the 3/32" axles were not generally used on pro-racing cars before late in 1970, early 1971, as deemed fragile. The first chassis shown  present characteristics that date them from 1971, because before the drop arms were hinged differently, with a tube across the drop arm. So regardless of what plaques on a box may say, # 1-2-3 are from 1971,  # 4 uses a one-piece steel center that I have never seen before but that appears to be a production item, I would say 1971 or 1972, # 5 and 7 are 1968, and # 6 is 1967.

They almost certainly were not built by a celebrated builder (unless on drugs or drunk) as they show amateurish workmanship, but are certainly inspired by chassis pictured in Car Model and Miniature Auto Racing, or by observing 'live" chassis from others.

Regardless, they are wonderful survivors of a fun era when people wore weird clothing and competed with girls for hair length, when the air was filled with smoke that was not always smog or tobacco, and the only regret is that most such cars found today are missing the rest of their parts, wheels, motors, bodies...
Thanks, Lee, for showing them.