Jump to content




Photo

Internet dating!... Please help date these chassis


  • Please log in to reply
22 replies to this topic

#1 Flathead

Flathead

    Rookie Keyboard Racer

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 28 posts
  • Joined: 01-January 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, England

Posted 14 October 2017 - 06:31 PM

Hello Gentlemen,

 

Further to my post "Can anyone shed some light", I would appreciate some help dating the contents of what I call the "Spicy meatball" box, so that I can build them to period correct spec.

 

SV10286560.jpg

 

Chassis 1-4 all have 3/32 axles.

 

1.jpg

 

1A.jpg

 

2.jpg

 

2A.jpg

 

3.jpg

 

3A.jpg

 

4.jpg

 

4A.jpg

 


Lee Welch




#2 Flathead

Flathead

    Rookie Keyboard Racer

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 28 posts
  • Joined: 01-January 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, England

Posted 14 October 2017 - 06:36 PM

Chassis 5-7 I'm more familiar with but thought I'd show them anyway. All 1/8 axles.

 

5.jpg

 

5A.jpg

 

6.jpg

 

6A.jpg

 

7.jpg

 

7A.jpg

 

Not sure if the offset pans on chassis #7 are bad fabrication or deliberate!

 

Thank you in advance for your time. Lee


Lee Welch

#3 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,223 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 14 October 2017 - 07:00 PM

I'll throw out some very non-expert opinions.

 

Steve O'Keefe, Tony P, or Rick Thigpen follow era's much, much closer.

 

70-71 on 1, 2 , & 3 (maybe late 69)

68 on 5 & 7

67 on 6

 

The fairly unique one is 4.

 

It's a bit different then anything I've ever seen, and pretty cool.

 

Maybe as early as 71, but maybe 72 or 73.


  • Flathead likes this

Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516


#4 Flathead

Flathead

    Rookie Keyboard Racer

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 28 posts
  • Joined: 01-January 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, England

Posted 14 October 2017 - 07:22 PM

Thanks for your input Mike.


Lee Welch

#5 tonyp

tonyp

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,087 posts
  • Joined: 12-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sanford, FL, land of lizards and big roaches

Posted 15 October 2017 - 08:27 AM

1 ,2, 3, I’d say early '70s.


  • Flathead likes this

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
Retro East co-founder
American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
Arco Champion
Car Model Magazine Series Amateur Champion
2016 ORS Anglewinder Constructors Championsh
ip


#6 Phil Hackett

Phil Hackett

    Posting Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,702 posts
  • Joined: 29-January 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:A Big Red Star on a Kremlin Map

Posted 15 October 2017 - 01:32 PM

3/32" axles would be 1970 or later. I guess #1 is a 1973-ish chassis than the others because there weren't many flat spring steel chassis before 1973 and it still has the straight front axle tube instead of the "L" front wheel set-up.


Click HERE to contact Sonic Products. The messenger feature on my Slotblog account has been disabled.

Posted Image

#7 MSwiss

MSwiss

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Advertiser
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,223 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 06
  • Gender:Male

Posted 15 October 2017 - 01:44 PM

Phil,

 

That's why I found #4 so interesting.

 

It's mixing eras.


Mike Swiss
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990), eight G7 main appearances
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder

17B West Ogden Ave Westmont, IL 60559, (708) 203-8003, mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address)

Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516


#8 Samiam

Samiam

    Posting Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,660 posts
  • Joined: 18-January 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Long Island, NY

Posted 15 October 2017 - 02:22 PM

Let's not forget that some chassis changed overnight in the hotel room. I just won an Ebay chassis lot with one that looks like it was hastily converted from inline to angle winder. A real mess.


Sam Levitch
 
"If you have integrity, nothing else matters, and if you do not have integrity, nothing else matters."
     Robert Mueller, special counsel (2013)

#9 Bill from NH

Bill from NH

    Age scrubs away speed!

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,501 posts
  • Joined: 02-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Boston, NH

Posted 15 October 2017 - 03:00 PM

Sam, that's how some  early anglewinders were  built. Show us a photo of what you have. Who knows, you might have a valuable antique.


Bill Fernald
 

"I'm not short, I'm just down to earth."


#10 jimht

jimht

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,258 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Alamo City

Posted 15 October 2017 - 03:51 PM

Still have some of that steel rail center on #1 somewhere, had to take a torch to the rear uprights to get them at a 90.

 

All of the first 4 look like they were built for motor brackets, whether they're still there or not. That would place them no later than 1973.

 

#4 looks to be hand cut, very tidy. But, the pillow blocks on #4 look like production pieces that wouldn't have been available in 1973.


Jim Honeycutt

"I don't think I'm ever more 'aware' than I am right after I hit my thumb with a hammer." - Jack Handey [Deep Thoughts]


#11 Flathead

Flathead

    Rookie Keyboard Racer

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 28 posts
  • Joined: 01-January 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, England

Posted 15 October 2017 - 04:02 PM

I guess #1 is a 1973ish chassis than the others because there weren't many flat spring steel chassis before 1973 

 

Phil are you sure you mean #1 as I have my dads last race chassis and it almost identical to #1 with hand cut steel center . It has its original motor that is dated nov 69. 

 

Mike, I forgot to mention that #4 is all steel construction, pans are machined thinner toward center of chassis, also guide tongue has the center milled to half thickness.


Lee Welch

#12 Phil Hackett

Phil Hackett

    Posting Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,702 posts
  • Joined: 29-January 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:A Big Red Star on a Kremlin Map

Posted 15 October 2017 - 04:09 PM

I remember spring steel chassis being rare and expensive in the 1960s. They became more common right around 1971-72. 


Click HERE to contact Sonic Products. The messenger feature on my Slotblog account has been disabled.

Posted Image

#13 Flathead

Flathead

    Rookie Keyboard Racer

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 28 posts
  • Joined: 01-January 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, England

Posted 15 October 2017 - 05:00 PM

Hi Phil I'm not saying that the steel center was common, but these two are remarkably similar.

 

SV102972.JPG

 

SV102973.JPG

 

SV102974.JPG

 

My dad raced in the south London league and got out of slots sometime mid 70. 

 

Below is taken from a report covering the Arco race at Tottenham (north London) track, also November 69.

So maybe not the norm but also not uncommon.

 

SV102971.JPG

 

Regards Lee


Lee Welch

#14 Bill from NH

Bill from NH

    Age scrubs away speed!

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,501 posts
  • Joined: 02-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Boston, NH

Posted 15 October 2017 - 05:18 PM

Lee, I'm no expert on steel chassis, but the steel center sections you show appear almost identical. The right chassis has had its steel cross piece removed & replaced with a brass strip & piano wire. The right chassis has also had its outer rails milled narrower, Some have previously said this chassis piece with full outer rails , like yours on the left, did not exist, but your photo proves them wrong. These steel center sections were available both for gears on the right side & gears on the left side.


  • Flathead likes this

Bill Fernald
 

"I'm not short, I'm just down to earth."


#15 Flathead

Flathead

    Rookie Keyboard Racer

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 28 posts
  • Joined: 01-January 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, England

Posted 15 October 2017 - 05:36 PM

 

 

#4 looks to be hand cut, very tidy. But, the pillow blocks on #4 look like production pieces that wouldn't have been available in 1973.

Jim,

I'm 98% sure that #4 is all hand cut including the pillow blocks as all edges have fine file or sanding marks.

Axle holes are not center of the outside radius of pillow blocks and they both have different shapes with file flat spots.

Also nothing quite matches side to side, being off by up to 12 thou.

Whoever cut it had access to a milling machine as both pans and guide tongue are milled, as are two slots for pillow blocks to sit into center section.


Lee Welch

#16 tonyp

tonyp

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,087 posts
  • Joined: 12-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sanford, FL, land of lizards and big roaches

Posted 15 October 2017 - 05:43 PM

The 2 steel cars are centersections sold by several companies. The one with the thinner outer rails was the one sold by burley raceway. I used to build my steel chassis like the one on the right.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  • Flathead likes this

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
Retro East co-founder
American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
Arco Champion
Car Model Magazine Series Amateur Champion
2016 ORS Anglewinder Constructors Championsh
ip


#17 zipper

zipper

    Race Leader

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 686 posts
  • Joined: 11-August 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Finland

Posted 15 October 2017 - 05:46 PM

#1 has Nutley steel center (cut) and Steube/Associated drop arm.


  • Flathead likes this
Pekka Sippola

#18 Flathead

Flathead

    Rookie Keyboard Racer

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 28 posts
  • Joined: 01-January 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, England

Posted 15 October 2017 - 05:52 PM

Bill My dads chassis on the left is hand cut steel and brass made by a chap named McDonald who went on to race R/C cars. If you open the full size image you can just see the scribe marks at the end of the tuning fork slots.

 

#1 Chassis center section looks to be a modified production piece but I'm not 100% on this, as whoever built these chassis had access to some pretty serious machinery. See my comments on #4.


Lee Welch

#19 Flathead

Flathead

    Rookie Keyboard Racer

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 28 posts
  • Joined: 01-January 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, England

Posted 15 October 2017 - 06:19 PM

The 2 steel cars are centersections sold by several companies. The one with the thinner outer rails was the one sold by burley raceway. I used to build my steel chassis like the one on the right.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Tony,

If the top builders were hand making steel centers by the end of 69, Roughly how long would it have been before a production version hit the market?


Lee Welch

#20 tonyp

tonyp

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,087 posts
  • Joined: 12-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sanford, FL, land of lizards and big roaches

Posted 15 October 2017 - 06:22 PM

I think 1970.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
Retro East co-founder
American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
Arco Champion
Car Model Magazine Series Amateur Champion
2016 ORS Anglewinder Constructors Championsh
ip


#21 Flathead

Flathead

    Rookie Keyboard Racer

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 28 posts
  • Joined: 01-January 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, England

Posted 15 October 2017 - 06:37 PM

Thanks Tony,

Does that sit well with the Steube/Associated drop arm. as identified by Zipper? (Thanks Zipper)

Had the Mura B can been dropped by the pros, by this time?

 

SLOT CAR CHASSIS Decals Plastic Tops With Wood BoxUS $102.501600.jpg


Lee Welch

#22 tonyp

tonyp

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,087 posts
  • Joined: 12-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sanford, FL, land of lizards and big roaches

Posted 16 October 2017 - 08:16 PM

I believe so. I’m not real good on dates.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
Retro East co-founder
American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
Arco Champion
Car Model Magazine Series Amateur Champion
2016 ORS Anglewinder Constructors Championsh
ip


#23 TSR

TSR

    The Dokktor is IN

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 41,699 posts
  • Joined: 02-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mexifornia

Posted 19 October 2017 - 05:37 PM

While several racers had already hand cut spring-steel rails by the end of 1969 (invented by Jerry Brady, generally used in two separate rails, then a single piece as first built by Mike Morrissey, the one that started commercial parts) the steel center sections available at the counter were not manufactured before the beginning of 1970 (first by Associated/SimCo using the Steube name), and the 3/32" axles were not generally used on pro-racing cars before late in 1970, early 1971, as deemed fragile. The first chassis shown  present characteristics that date them from 1971, because before the drop arms were hinged differently, with a tube across the drop arm. So regardless of what plaques on a box may say, # 1-2-3 are from 1971,  # 4 uses a one-piece steel center that I have never seen before but that appears to be a production item, I would say 1971 or 1972, # 5 and 7 are 1968, and # 6 is 1967.

They almost certainly were not built by a celebrated builder (unless on drugs or drunk) as they show amateurish workmanship, but are certainly inspired by chassis pictured in Car Model and Miniature Auto Racing, or by observing 'live" chassis from others.

Regardless, they are wonderful survivors of a fun era when people wore weird clothing and competed with girls for hair length, when the air was filled with smoke that was not always smog or tobacco, and the only regret is that most such cars found today are missing the rest of their parts, wheels, motors, bodies...
Thanks, Lee, for showing them.  :)


  • tonyp and Samiam like this





Electric Dreams Online Shop