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eBay find du jour... and lucky bonus


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#1 TSR

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Posted 19 October 2017 - 08:44 PM

Found these scarce Lancer "Porsche 917" bodies in an auction with a bunch of other stuff. I recommended to the owner of the LASCM museum to buy the lot because the museum did not have one of these in its original box. They are not hard to find loose, but this is a museum, not a hobby shop, we collect BOXED items!  :)

ebay_lot.jpg

So the lot arrives, and the irrelevant corroded chassis (right side on the picture)  go in the trusty tumbler to see if they are worth any of my time, since they appear to be quite well built. There is also a chassis under that red battle scarred Porsche body with period Mylar air control stuff, that thing was raced hard. The body shows hasty repairs from a major crack bear its cockpit area... Mylar and staple city!

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Then the surprise as I remove the body: it is not only a genuine 1973 Tony P chassis, but a real "Da Spyder", a chassis with the rear axle supported by 3 bearings, with the "Diamond" front axle, a clone of the types with which I did some serious clean up in 1972 and 1973 major races. I had never seen a "live" one, so this is kind of a prize for me and the museum, as we have now a copy by Lee Gilbert and a copy by Tony, which is extremely flattering to me. Thing is, these chassis cut lap times by 3/10th of a second with doing little else, so they did work. I wonder how many of these Tony built. This one says "Built by Tony P # 1397", but this encompasses of course all the chassis he had built for years before. As usual with Tony's stuff, it is beautifully built, somewhat stronger construction than my own actually!

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My own to compare:

1973-ws-chassis-3.jpg

I washed the body from the grime in solvent, then with a toothbrush, soap and water, so it is now absolutely free of dirt or oily stuff. I plan to assemble the car with a genuine Camen/Pooch Champion C-Can motor (it's got a "20" in it but I got plenty of Pooch arms from that time), and all correct parts used by Tony at the time.
Great find, so I am not so unhappy with the price paid.

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There are four other chassis, three looking like built by the same fellow, two quite conventional 1972 designs, combo of Steube and Gilbert, the other a bit more unique but likely by the same fellow, with a steel center and an "ISO" front acle lifting from there. It weighs a ton and might have been effective against massive on-track glue...

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The last one must have been built in 1976 or so, and features one of the earliest forms of drop-arm center hinge I have seen.

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Would be great if one of the older East Coast racers still having all his teeth and not yet in a wheelchair, could light some info as far as who this car belonged to, and who built these chassis,as they are really well constructed, no amateur jobs here.


 


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#2 Lone Wolf

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 07:58 AM

 

Title- Going to a good home

 

Great find. I don't know how to actually link this and I can't find the original post where I uncovered this gem, however it was the same circumstances re: the actual find and it wound in the same place.


Joe Lupo


#3 John Gorski

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 11:58 AM

When was this on eBay? Nice!!  :good:


John Gorski, Jr.

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#4 Kim Lander

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 12:53 PM

Nice find... I'm never that lucky.



#5 don.siegel

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 04:58 AM

I was following this auction P, and had initially thought about a small bid, but it's not really in my main area of interest... but when I saw the final price I just about fainted! 

 

Figured it was something to do with the bodies, but had no idea they would get that high - and somebody else had to be bidding to bring it up there. 

 

The TonyP chassis is a nice bonus too, congrats! 

 

I was actually more interested in the F1 bodies and the Dynamic rear SW mount with the NASCAR 16D motor - the endbell seemed an odd color, but is it just a yellowed white endbell? Nice combo of '67-68 stuff and early to mid-'70s.... nice to see the evolution of chassis design, too. 

 

Just about every big lot I've found on eBay has had some nice surprise in it, and this is no exception! 

 

Don 



#6 slotcarone

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 07:31 AM

Some awesome historic chassis there!!  I notice the one unused body says "Herman" on it--maybe a clue?


Mike Katz

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#7 TSR

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 05:23 PM

Figured it was something to do with the bodies, but had no idea they would get that high - and somebody else had to be bidding to bring it up there.

 
Don, the lot sold for $550 or so, which sounds like a lot of money, that is until one considers what was in it. These Lancer Porsche bodies (in their original boxes) are extremely rare nowadays. If someone absolutely needed them for a collection, it is obvious that a bidding war would be going on. Scott does not care, if he wants it, he is willing to pay.

But each of the five racing chassis has a value that is at a minimum, $100.00 because of their quality of construction and vintage, especially the Tony P which when assembled with wheels, motor, and assorted parts and reunited with its body, can easily bring five times that. Any of these other four would sell rather well if put at auction, even if unidentified. One pays as much or more for a modern "retro" chassis today, and what is built today might be great for racing, but weak as a collectible so far.

So in a way, that expensive auction was cheap.

Unfortunately Tony does not remember who he sold that particular chassis or car to, it is too far back in our collective memories. I will look for a "Herman" in the period race reports, as at least we know exactly when these chassis were built, almost to the week!

But for the time being, the identity of the car's owner will remain a mystery.


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#8 MSwiss

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 06:04 PM

On a long shot, I wonder if it could be Bob Herman, the owner of Protrack.

They refer to the split pans, connected, and usually wire wrapped to the "L" front axles on mid-'70s to early '80s Pro chassis, as Herman pans.
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Mike Swiss
 
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#9 TSR

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 06:46 PM

Mike, thanks for the tip, a possible avenue to follow. I will contact him and find out if he would have been involved. This of course would have been between 1972 and 1976 between all the chassis in question.



#10 MSwiss

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 07:24 PM

There is a reference to Herman pans in THIS Slot Car Illustrated thread.
 
It refers to 1981, but that doesn't mean he wasn't building stuff much earlier.
 
IIRC, when he was known for the Herman pan, he was an Ohioan racer at that time.
 
BTW, you incorrectly had the year that I came up with the perimeter car.
 
Pete Sardella sort of corrected it, confusing the internal pan, perimeter car I did in '83 with the simpler car, developed in '84, which is essentially what is run today.

Mike Swiss
 
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Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
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#11 TSR

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 02:41 PM

Mike, thanks! I was and am quite foggy on what happened after I left the hobby and relied on my friend's knowledge for anything that happened after I bailed out. Not at all, my era of expertise... Thanks for the correction! 

I will call Mr. Herman and find out if he has anything to do with this lot. Would be great of course if that was the case.



#12 Mbloes

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 12:36 PM

There is a reference to Herman pans in THIS Slot Car Illustrated thread.
 
 

 

I must say, reading that thread, it is so much nicer that we have actual names of human beings over here for reference.


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#13 Mbloes

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 12:54 PM

Found these scarce Lancer "Porsche 917" bodies in an auction with a bunch of other stuff.

 

Were there actual prototypes with open cockpits?  I searched a bit but couldn't really find any pics.


Mike Bloes

#14 TSR

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 05:49 PM

Mike,
of course there were, plenty! The original 917 Can Am driven by Joe Siffert was the first, then there were a slew of them, many coupes received a different body to race in the German Interserie once the the 5-liter "GT" cars had finally been banned by the ACO and the FIA to allow 3-liter prototypes their day in the sun (MATRA, Alfa, Gulf-Mirage etc.)
For the Interserie, Porsche even developed a 16-cylinder engine and stuffed it in a modified 917 chassis but it did not go any faster so it became the show car it remains today.

Now the Lancer "Porsche 917" was also produced as a coupe, but both have a major problem: they show only 8 intake stacks!  In fact the same with the Dynamic "917". So, what happened to the other 4 pots? MY opinion is that both companies meant to produce an 8-cylinder "908", but as the 917 was making its mark in racing, both companies decided to name their finished product something it never was.
After all, mold makers in the day were also car enthusiasts and everyone totally knew that the 917 was a flat-12...



#15 mike1972chev

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Posted 28 October 2017 - 07:43 AM

NOT to "drag" this post off topic,but I have been watching videos of the  real 1 to1 917s lately  on Youtube.  OMG.. :shok: I can see how they got deemed as THE most brutal race cars ever built !!!   Bad machines !!! 


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