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PS4002FK - Water break-In?


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#1 Tex

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 07:38 AM

I'm thinking of breaking in a couple of PS4002FK's in water, to get the brushes fully radiused quicker. Does the water have any lasting ill effects on the motor brush material? Any other potential negatives? Thanks in advance.


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#2 Milkman

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 08:05 AM

I've tried water break in for the PSFK's but found it a little tricky.  The motor brushes will wear quickly compared to the Retro Hawks.  I learned the hard way and went too long and the brushes were nubs when I pulled the motor out. You only need to run the motor maybe 3 - 5 seconds at a time, then check the wear.  I usually run in at 4 - 5 volts at most.  Lately I don't bother with the water break-in.  I just use a radius tool and then run the motor on my power supply for about 20 - 3- mins and then run on the track at a moderate pace for about 50 laps.  Then beat on it to see what it will do. 


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#3 CoastalAngler1

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 08:10 AM

IMO, they don't like swimming lessons before learning to race.    

 

Dunked 3 motors recently, one died almost instantly when hooked to power supply following swim lesson...smoke signals not good.


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#4 willy wonka

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 08:21 AM

I would recommend agasint water or any wet brake in with the psfks.
Radius the brushs and run on ppwer supply for 20 or 30 mins at 3 or 4 volts.
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#5 Jeff Bonanno

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 08:38 AM

I would recommend agasint water or any wet brake in with the psfks.
Radius the brushs and run on ppwer supply for 20 or 30 mins at 3 or 4 volts.

I second this



#6 Danny Zona

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 09:15 AM

It can depend on what brush you use as well.
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#7 SlowBeas

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 09:32 AM

Last I heard, guys were getting great results using a quick spray of Simple Green cleaner on the brushes, running the motor for a few seconds on a power supply, then rinsing it thoroughly and putting it to work.

 

Almost seems too easy, doesn't it? Still, they seem to swear by it.

 

Although I have never tried this method myself and cannot personally endorse it, I intend to give it a try next time.


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#8 Fast Freddie

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 10:54 AM

I use the Simple Green method on all the "tin can" motors (H7, HR and F7) and the PS4002FK.  The only prep you need to do on the tin cans is flush all the factory lube out of them before you dunk them.  Only dunk them for 5 sec. at 3 volts then check brush seating.  If still not seated only dunk for 2-3 sec at 3 volts until seated.  Then flush with clean fresh water to get the Simple Green out.  Then flush with motor cleaner and light pressure air. Check to make sure the comm. slots are free of brush material or you could toast a motor on final break-in.  If the slots need cleaning I use a wooden toothpick to gently clean each slot.  There's a little more prep for the PS4002FK.  The endbell bushing needs to be glued in and the seal needs to be coated with clear nail polish and both should be well dried before the dunk.  I run the PS motor the same as the tin cans and the stock brushes and springs usually break-in completely with the initial 5 sec. at 3 volts.  If your running different springs and harder brushes it could take a couple of extra 3 sec. bursts.  The biggest problem I've had was brush material in the comm. slots but once their clean the motors run great. 

 

Final break-in for all the motors is 3 min at 3 volts on the power supply.  At the track 5-10 laps and your as good as your going to get in most cases.  However,  I did have one of my HRs vastly improve during the race.  So nothing is for certain in slot car racing. 


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#9 zipper

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 10:57 AM

Water is sort of OK, it's the rpm used that kills the brushes. I once tried with a Group 7 with high rpm - the brushes were shot in 15 seconds, just black goo was overall.


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#10 Cap Henry

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 12:19 PM

I do mine the same as Willy, Radius the brushes, let it run for 20 minutes.
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#11 Frankie Schaffier

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 09:57 PM

Yep.. Same here.. Radius the brushes and let it run until the brushes are seated, give it a drop of oil every now and then.
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#12 dalek

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 08:24 AM

Last week I did a PS4002FK in water.
 
The endbell is the only part of the motor that needs to be submerged so I soldered wires to the motor terminals so I could hold it and dunk only the endbell end.
 
I used a white cereal bowl so I could see how fast the water became cloudy.
 
I ran the motor at one volt.
 
I pulled the brushes out periodically to see if they were wearing straight (would have tweaked the hoods if needed) and how close they were to being fully seated.
 
The original brushes are very soft.  Using 3X magnification, I could see fairly deep scratches in them.  That's no surprise since wearing away brush material so fast (even at one volt), relatively large chunks of material are probably being ripped off.
 
If the brushes were some of the harder ones that are available, I think the comm might get fairly scratched.
 

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#13 Fast Freddie

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 10:05 AM

Willy, I'd like to know why you are against any wet break-in method for the FK style motors.  I would be interested in hearing what negative results you have experienced when you did a Simple Green or water break-in.  It will help the rest of us, who do the wet break-ins, identify problem areas quicker and give us insight on what we might normally miss.  Thank you.


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#14 Cap Henry

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 12:17 PM

Pretty sure he only ment the PS FK. The stock brushes in them are fairly soft and wear extremely quick in water.

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#15 Fast Freddie

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 03:15 PM

Cap, I believe your right.  I was just wondering if he noticed any problems using the water break-in.  I have used straight water and I have also used the Simple Green method to break in the PSFK motors and aside from the comm. slots occasionally getting bridged with brush material I've had no problems.  The comm. and the brushes are nice and clean especially after using the Simple Green method.  Your right about the brushes being soft and because of that it doesn't usually take more that a 5 sec. dunk at 3 volts to get a good seat on the brushes.  It takes a little longer if you switched to SBF II.


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#16 Tex

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 06:16 PM

I just broke 'em in dry. I put 'em on the power supply for a while and then checked to see how the brushes were seating. The amount of wear on the brushes told me I didn't need much more time on the power supply to finish the job. Thnks for all the input.


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#17 Cap Henry

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 07:09 PM

Ive never broke in a PSFK water, last week for a flexi series race I pulled one out of the bag, radiused the brushes, ran it for 20 minutes, put it in the car and ran it. Less then 50 laps before qualifying, TQ with a new lap record, then won with a new lap total record.

Guess it just depends on your time restraints. Break in with external brush motors always seems to vary a lot.

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#18 Zippity

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 09:03 PM

Hasn't Mr JK, poo-pooed the concept of water break-ins for the 4002?



#19 Mike Patterson

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 09:40 PM

When I first started racing retro cars, I bought a couple of Pro Slot Puppy Dogs with Chinese arms. I'd had good luck with the water break in with my C can motors, so I decided to try it on these. At 3 volts, the brushes in the first one disappeared in less than a minute. I didn't try the second one. I replaced the brushes with Big Foots. They solved that problem, but the arms were turds. A learning experience. I would wager that the PSFKs have the same crummy brushes.


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#20 willy wonka

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 08:28 AM

Willy, I'd like to know why you are against any wet break-in method for the FK style motors.  I would be interested in hearing what negative results you have experienced when you did a Simple Green or water break-in.  It will help the rest of us, who do the wet break-ins, identify problem areas quicker and give us insight on what we might normally miss.  Thank you.


Cap is correct. Only agasint wet break in on psfks. Like cap ive found it to be much easier to jist radius the brushs and let run..and not really worth the time and effort to wet break them in. Ive done a couple when i first started using the psfks and found that there fairly good right out of the bag. Everyone has there own methods. Find what works for u and use it.
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#21 willy wonka

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 08:56 AM

Hasn't Mr JK, poo-pooed the concept of water break-ins for the 4002?


Pretty sure the psfk 4002 are from proslot.
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#22 Tex

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 10:09 AM

One thing that might help me next time is for me to acquire a brush radius tool.... recommendations anyone?


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#23 Zippity

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 12:01 PM

Pretty sure the psfk 4002 are from proslot.

 

Maybe it was Mr PS who made the comment?  :)



#24 Bill from NH

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 12:32 PM

One thing that might help me next time is for me to acquire a brush radius tool.... recommendations anyone?

 

Tex, Koford sells both diamond brush tools in 4 different diameters, as well as a cheaper one that's all steel. The diamond tools will leave a smoother cut  If you click koford.com, you'll be able to connect to the Koford catalog for more detailed information. I have a Magnehone diamond tool but I don't know if anyone still sells them.


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#25 MSwiss

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 12:35 PM

This link will work better;

http://www.koford.com/slot/

 

Regardless, it looks like the smallest one Stu has is .190".

 

The Proslot 4002FK arm is approx. .175" dia.

 

PS-that industrial motor link just shows how crazy-hard, Stu works. LOL


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