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Best motor brushes?


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#1 Zippity

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 07:12 PM

What motor brushes do you consider are the best to install in S16D and G12 motors, and why?






#2 Koford fan

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 07:49 PM

Koford Super Big Foot II and Pros Slot Goldust Pro are the best on market I'd say... not sure about S16D brushes.


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#3 havlicek

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 05:44 AM

Any good brush on one motor is a good brush on any motor. There's no such thing as a brush that is good on a G12 that wouldn't be just as good on a different slot car motor... assuming the brush fits the hardware of course. If a brush's composition is hard and will cause excessive wear, it will wear out any comm. If a brush has poor conductivity, that will harm any motor's performance.  


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#4 Zippity

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 10:24 AM

Maybe I should have said "for"?   :)



#5 MSwiss

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 10:47 AM

Any good brush on one motor is a good brush on any motor.

 

Totally not true.

Wear is always a consideration.

An example is the stock brushes on a 4002FK. Most agree that going to Goldust, or SBFII, doesn't increase performance versus the stock ones.

But you wouldn't want to put those same brushes in a G7 motor, as regardless of the performance, the wear wouldn't be suitable, i.e you can't have your motor stopping in the middle of a heat with the brushes too short.


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Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
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#6 Cheater

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 11:43 AM

My experience, admittedly none of it very recent, is that there is a non-trivial level of variability from brush to brush, even with the same brand. I've had Big Foots that were fine and others not; same with the Goldust brushes.

 

Never found a way other than testing on the track or power supply to distinguish between a good pair of brushes and a bad pair.

 

I used to find as much as 10-15% of new brushes of either brand gave sub-par performance. As I've heard it has gotten worse since the Japanese tsunami devasted the primary makers of quality small motor brushes.


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Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#7 Danny Zona

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 12:15 PM

What motor brushes do you consider are the best to install in S16D and G12 motors, and why?


Chinese arm S16D or American arm S16D? 😉
Test, test, test and go test some more.
You're never fast enough!!! 💯

Can I please have 10 more minutes of practice? I know I've had all day but I need more...😉

#8 Zippity

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 02:25 PM

American, of course. :)

#9 crazyphysicsteacher

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 01:36 PM

The most consistent brushes I have found to be the Koford Bigfoot II. However, for sealed motor racing I have found the production Pro Slot brushes to be very consistent and only seem to have bad sections to the outer edge.

 

Now I check the brushes once the motor seats the brushes and a bad brush will show poor current readings while also having a gray or silver area on the brush face. Just my $0.02


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#10 David Rees

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Posted 23 November 2017 - 01:47 AM

On all my G12 motors , G27 and G7 motors use a Pro Slot Goldust brush for the positive brush and Koford brush for the negative brush.

#11 SpeedyNH

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Posted 23 November 2017 - 08:37 AM

That's interesting. How did you arrive at that?
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#12 David Rees

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Posted 23 November 2017 - 10:05 AM

All Cohoza motors are built that way. 

I think the theory is the Koford brushes have more graphite and run cooler while the gold dust in the Pro Slot brushes keeps the commutator clean.
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#13 Dallas Racer

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Posted 23 November 2017 - 10:37 AM

I never raced G7, but I read somewhere that Koford brushes were used on the neg. side because they are harder and last longer. I didn't know that it was also done that way in G12.

 

Mike would know more about this.


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#14 MSwiss

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Posted 23 November 2017 - 12:36 PM

I never mixed motor brushes in G7, nor had I ever heard of it, in my 23 years, racing G7.

I think the first time I had heard of it, in any context, was Greg Van Peenen doing it with Puppy Dogs, five or six years ago.

Mike Swiss
 
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#15 Fast Freddie

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Posted 23 November 2017 - 12:37 PM

Why would you put the softer brush as the positive? The positive always wears more than the negative. 

I've always put the harder brush in the positive to equal out brush wear and maintain equal spring tension. That's only when I used to use two different brands of brushes. Now I just go with one brand or, like with sealed motors, what comes with them.
Fred Younkin

#16 Danny Zona

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Posted 23 November 2017 - 01:45 PM

I've tried it on sealed Deathstar 16Ds and all the way up to X12s. Some like it better and some don't. Some would like cut brushes.

So many combinations can work and not even make sense. Just a lot of trial and error while watching the clock.
Test, test, test and go test some more.
You're never fast enough!!! 💯

Can I please have 10 more minutes of practice? I know I've had all day but I need more...😉

#17 Dallas Racer

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Posted 23 November 2017 - 02:11 PM

I think the first time I had heard of it, in any context, was Greg Van Peenen, doing it with Puppy Dogs, five or six years ago.

 
After further thought I remember I read it on the old Texas forum. I vividly remember it because Archie King commented that the guy that posted it (might have been PA Watson) was giving away their secrets. That made a lot of sense because one brush (I don't know which one) always wears more than the other. A harder brush might help a G7 motor last a little longer.

Again, Mike, you would know the most about that.

Phil Smith ® ™


#18 MSwiss

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Posted 23 November 2017 - 03:48 PM

When I raced G7 (up until 2006), SBF II was the only usable G7 brush.

Since then, who knows?

Mike Swiss
 
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Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
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#19 Chubby

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 09:47 AM

All Cohoza motors are built that way. I think the theory is the Koford brushes have more graphite and run cooler while the Goldust in the Pro Slot brushes keeps the commutator clean


What makes you say this? Is it because the T-slot in the brush?

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#20 Chubby

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 09:49 AM

When I raced G7 (up until 2006), SBF II was the only usable G7 brush.

Since than, who knows?


Still is, Mike.
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#21 Chubby

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 09:51 AM

If anything you want Goldust on the negative side.

I think what people are seeing from Cahoza is they're taking the horizontal brush and making it vertical, therefore it looks like a Goldust brush.

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#22 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 02:37 PM

This might end up being on topic, I hope.

What causes this?

Screenshot_2017-10-18-23-20-06.png

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#23 David Rees

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 02:57 PM

I think what people are seeing from Cahoza is they're taking the horizontal brush and making it vertical, therefore it looks like a Goldust brush.


Negative. Have a look at a Cahoza-built motor. I am just copying what Cahoza do.

#24 Benno - SAC

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 05:33 PM

We are also doing this because of the brush wear. The motors are not faster.

Golddusts are installed on negative side.

In the Czech Slot Shops you can even buy them mixed.

The wear is really almost even with this configuration.

Schöne Grüße (Kind regards)

Benno Stolberg

 

www.SAC-Stolberg.de


#25 MSwiss

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 05:52 PM

A case of solving a problem that doesn't exist.

The back brush not wearing as much as the front. LOL.

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
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Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
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#26 zipper

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 06:30 AM

Mostly in Grp 7 One/Two motor setups, the wear difference may be vast when the brushes wear down. Front is finished, back has still 1-2 mm left.
Pekka Sippola

#27 MSwiss

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 07:48 AM

Yes, and that back brush staying longer, is not an issue.

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
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#28 Samiam

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 05:23 PM

Has anyone tried these?

DMW Products Horizontal Motor Brushes
Sam Levitch
 
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#29 Bazzie

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 08:31 PM

Sounds interesting if you could believe the marketing gumph... And even if you believe it, does that make it true?

A bit like the sign on the tiger's cage - "Only enter this cage if you strongly believe in reincarnation."

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#30 Cap Henry

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 09:02 PM

Price isn't bad.

Team PSC
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#31 Samiam

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 09:33 PM

They have vertical brushes, too.

DMW Products Vertical Motor Brushes
Sam Levitch
 
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#32 MSwiss

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 09:44 PM

Sam,

I've seen those ads for inexpensive stuff awhile back. I'm a bit surprised no one has mentioned his (personal) name.

Regardless, he is apparently not a raceway, but selling stuff aimed at commercial racing.

I've never seen any indication he sells to raceways at a discount, so he is just another flavor of a Ken O type seller, that you just provided free advertising for.
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Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#33 Samiam

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 10:15 PM

I don't see him selling any JK products, Parma, Pro-Slot, Koford, Difalco, or any other of the staples sold by commercial raceways. The products he is selling are not sourced from slot car distributors. Just his own stuff selling direct to racer. Axles and bearings mostly. 

And no "Turbo-Blasted" anything. I know Ken-NO! And he's no Ken-NO!
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Sam Levitch
 
"If you have integrity, nothing else matters, and if you do not have integrity, nothing else matters."
     Robert Mueller, special counsel (2013)

#34 MSwiss

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 10:19 PM

I'm still not seeing where any raceway is benefiting from him.

Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#35 Samiam

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 10:42 PM

I'm just trying to answer the OP's question. :dirol:


Sam Levitch
 
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     Robert Mueller, special counsel (2013)

#36 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 02:40 PM

I made a very nice post about Mike and it disappeared.

Those who work for a living are being quickly overwhelmed by those who vote for a living.

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-David Parrotta


#37 Cheater

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 03:01 PM

Yes, it did, but it was just collateral damage. The discussion was veering well off-topic and needed a bit of housekeeping.


Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#38 kvanpelt

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 03:11 PM

Greg... you are no fun! LOL.


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#39 Cheater

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 05:39 PM

Do you know what fun costs these days? Slotblog doesn't pay well enough for me to provide that...


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Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#40 Jesse Gonzales

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Posted 26 December 2017 - 03:59 PM

From this site:: http://slotracingshop.com/en/

 

KOFORD SBF II BRUSHES BIGFOOT, HORIZONTAL, pair - #M486

Traditional brushes for motor, they have a little more density, compared to brushes PROSLOR - #PS-901 accordingly more are erased, but the collector wears out more.

In ISRA classes motors it is customary to establish BIGFOOT brush on "+" and a brush manufactured by PROSLOT on "-". Thus, it is possible to achieve the most uniform wear of the brushes. Regardless of this, as practice shows, the plus brush should be changed 2 times more often.

S.B.F. II Horizontal brushes for 16D, Super 16D, Competitor, etc. The Worlds best motor brush, winner of countless World and National championships. These are the brushes which our M476 and M244 brushes are machined from.

 

it appear that our fellow racers in other parts of the world like mixed brushes.



#41 MSwiss

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Posted 26 December 2017 - 04:25 PM

This was already discussed.

 

The brushes wearing at an uneven rate is not a performance issue, just an anal retentive one.


Mike Swiss
 
IRRA® Components Committee Chairman
Five-time USRA National Champion (two G7, one G27, two G7 Senior)
Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
Eight-time G7 King track single lap world record holder
17B West Ogden AveWestmont, IL 60559, ( 708) 203-8003
mikeswiss86@hotmail.com (also my PayPal address) 
Note: Send all USPS packages and mail to: 5858 Chase Ave., Downers Grove, IL 60516
Make checks out to Chicagoland Woodworking, Inc.


#42 Jesse Gonzales

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Posted 26 December 2017 - 04:59 PM

Agreed! I just came across where it seems to have originated. Thanks for the feedback, Mike.
 
Jess

#43 Dan Miller

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 05:40 PM

Chubby is correct when it comes to Scale motors. Pro Slot negative and Koford positive has been the norm among the best racers in Europe for a long time now.
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